B4UFly question.

[MonkeyKing]

When I open B4UFly my location is covered by about 10 different airport zones. I know for a fact that most of these strips haven't been used in years. The area is mostly rural. Do I need to be worried about flying here?

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[MonkeyKing]

I should point out that these air strips are all private and even the "active" ones see minimal traffic.


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[Tok Pilot]

The app should just give you a warning, if YOU ARE WITHIN A 5 mile radius of one of them that is "controlled" you need to notify the control tower or controlling agency, advise, or ask permission + stay below a certain altitude in that airspace, but if it's a non-controlled airstrip, then there's nobody to ask, you only have to stay below 500 feet the way I understand the rules. I am surrounded by private runways in Alaska too and only one of them is controlled only when the weather goes IFR, which means there's a possibility of an aircraft making an established IFR GPS approach, but even then, it's class E below 700 feet.


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[Aaron]

If you are in North America I believe FAA requires you stay below 400 feet

 

[Tok Pilot]

You are correct, recreational drones and most commercial drones are expected to fly below 400 feet, and stay below nearby obstacles. As long as you abide by these rules, you don't need to be concerned about these airstrips that have no controlling agency, of course if there are aircraft in the vicinity you need to land and stay clear.


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[joet]

but if it's a non-controlled airstrip, then there's nobody to ask, you only have to stay below 500 feet the way I understand the rules.

This is incorrect. You have to notify the airport AND the tower if there is one before flying within 5 miles of ANY airport under hobbyist rules. Last I spoke to the FAA UAS folks, there wasn't any real guidance on how to handle an airport (be it defunct, not answering the phone, etc) that you couldn't contact. The best guidance I got was to keep a log of attempts to contact the airport along with your log of flights within 5 miles of said airport. Further, the rule is 400 feet, not 500 feet.

If you are flying under Part 107, no notification is required, and you are free to fly in Class G airspace. If the airport has a tower that is active part of the time (goes to Class E airspace to surface when it's operational), then under Part 107 you cannot fly there without an airspace authorization. Under hobbyist rules (Part 101), you can still fly if the airport AND tower have been notified.

 

[Tok Pilot]

This is incorrect. You have to notify the airport AND the tower if there is one before flying within 5 miles of ANY airport under hobbyist rules. Last I spoke to the FAA UAS folks, there wasn't any real guidance on how to handle an airport (be it defunct, not answering the phone, etc) that you couldn't contact. The best guidance I got was to keep a log of attempts to contact the airport along with your log of flights within 5 miles of said airport. Further, the rule is 400 feet, not 500 feet.

If you are flying under Part 107, no notification is required, and you are free to fly in Class G airspace. If the airport has a tower that is active part of the time (goes to Class E airspace to surface when it's operational), then under Part 107 you cannot fly there without an airspace authorization. Under hobbyist rules (Part 101), you can still fly if the airport AND tower have been notified.

So, if I want to fly within 5 miles of a tower controlled (hobbyist), all I have to do is notify the tower? How do you notify the "airport" and the "tower" who is the "airport"? I would like to know what the FAA,s definition of an airport is. I land on the side of mountains and glaciers. Does that mean I can't fly my drone where I land because it is now an airport? I live in an area in Alaska that has a state owned uncontrolled airport, there is nobody to notify so I just fly at will, AND just use common sense. I have flown the drones of FAA employees, and they have flown mine right in front of my hangar out over the Tarmac. once the local D.O.T. superintendent who is in charge of highway maintenance and is also called the "airport manager" because he is in charge of airport maintenance only on the airport and is also on a power trip advised me that I need to notify HIM whenever I want to fly my drone within 5 miles of the airport, which would include my property. I responded by telling him I would talk to the FAA myself about it. When I did, the FAA told me he is dead wrong, doesn't know what he's talking about and to put in writing what he said and email it to him. I didn't, not worth it.


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[joet]

The tower is not the airport - it is a component of the airport. You can have an airport without a tower, but not the other way around. You need to contact the airport manager for notification, and the tower if there is one and it is in operation.

An FAA recognized airport goes through a formal approval process - it's not "anywhere you land". During that process, it is assigned an identifier and put onto charts.

The DOT supervisor may not be the airport manager, but he could possibly have been appointed to receive notifications in the manager's stead. If so, then he's right - you need to notify him any time you fly within 5 miles of the airport. Note that APPROVAL is not required - just notification - so any power trip he may be having has its limits.

In this case, I'd make a log of every notification you made and your flights. Not that you're required to... But just in case he wants to say you didn't notify him, you will have call records that can match your logs.

 

[Tok Pilot]

It's unfortunate that because these private and unimproved strips were shown on sectional charts dating back 50 years for the sole purpose of serving as a landmark and aids to navigation, and also for emergency use, and now drone pilots have to jump through hoops to fly within 5 miles of them. 4 out of 5 old strips around my neighborhood are so grown up that you couldn't land a plane there anyway without doing serious damage the leading edges. The local "airport manager" has nothing to do with air traffic whatsoever, so notifying him if I am going to fly my drone within 5 miles serves absolutely no purpose other than to feed the bureaucracy. I wonder what he would do if every drone owner in town inundated him day and night with phone calls informing him that they were going to fly their drones up to 4.9 miles from the airport, I'm sure he's got better things to do than receive worthless information that serves no purpose. Thankfully, there isn't much for law enforcement in that department here in bush Alaska, no FAA, and only if you're caught doing something really egregious, not much is going to happen, even if you're flying over the runway, that's why we live here[emoji3].


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[joet]

Well, if the strip is not actually usable, then you have an argument as to why you were unable to notify.

Two stories:

There is a local heliport that services the County mosquito spraying helicopter. I went down there with a letter that stated my intention to fly within 1/4 mile and up to 200' from my address on an occasional basis between the hours of 8a and 8p. The gentleman in charge of the facility - one of the pilots - thanked me for notifying them and we had a nice chat about drones, aviation, and what they do there. They informed me that they sometimes have to go below 100', and would keep an eye out for my operations, and requested that if I saw them in the area that I would land. They said that with the letter I provided, that they considered themselves duly notified until and unless something changed.

There is a "seaplane base" near my house. In reality, some guy living on a lake parked his seaplane there. I couldn't reach him at the numbers I was finding, and called the FAA UAS help line for guidance. Apparently, he died a few years back in a crash - but the "seaplane base" was never de-certified and he didn't know how that process works. However, he did say that obviously I made an effort and met my burden - which is really what it comes down to.

Remember that the FAA had to slap together much of this under a deadline from Congress, and in the case of hobby flight were not allowed to impose new regulations - hence the difference between hobby requirements and non-hobby (107) requirements. Things will change, certainly on the 107 side, but for now, it's admittedly imperfect but it's a start. Until they have a better chance to understand all of the aspects - which, remember, affect model airplanes and Amazon-like large drones, not just the "normal" drones that we are used to, and other uses such as surveying, crop spraying, inspections, etc. - they don't want to rush things, yet they feel a need (and are given a mandate) to get the "drone situation" under control.

 

[Tok Pilot]

You said commercial drone pilots are free to fly they're drones in class G airspace, isn't anybody allowed to do that?


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[joet]

Yes, the main difference being that a 107 pilot can fly within 5mi of an airport in class G airspace without notifying anyone, and a hobbyist can fly in controlled airspace by merely notifying the airport/tower.

That dichotomy almost certainly exists because Congress prohibited the FAA from promulgating new restrictions on hobby fliers - absent that, I'm very sure that hobby flights would be much more restricted than 107 flights.

 

[Tok Pilot]

I'm a commercial pilot, and from what I've read, all I have to do is complete a small online UAS training course provided by the FAA to get the 107 license, sounds like something worth doing, especially up here.


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[joet]

I'm a commercial pilot, and from what I've read, all I have to do is complete a small online UAS training course provided by the FAA to get the 107 license, sounds like something worth doing, especially up here.

Yep: Becoming a Pilot

Existing Pilots – What to Expect
Eligibility:

• Must hold a pilot certificate issued under 14 CFR part 61
• Must have completed a flight review within the previous 24 months

Remote Pilot Certificate Requirements

• Must be easily accessible by the remote pilot during all UAS operations
• Valid for 2 years – certificate holders must pass either a recurrent online training course OR recurrent knowledge test every two years

Application Process:

1. Complete the online training course "Part 107 small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS) ALC-451" available on the FAA FAASTeam website – initial training course areas include:
   1. Applicable regulations relating to small unmanned aircraft system rating privileges, limitations, and flight operation
   2. Effects of weather on small unmanned aircraft performance
   3. Small unmanned aircraft loading and performance
   4. Emergency procedures
   5. Crew resource management
   6. Determining the performance of small unmanned aircraft
   7. Maintenance and preflight inspection procedures
2. Complete FAA Form 8710-13 (FAA Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application for a remote pilot certificate)
   1. Online or by paper (see instructions in previous section)
3. Validate applicant identity
   1. Contact a FSDO, an FAA-designated pilot examiner (DPE), an airman certification representative (ACR), or an FAA-certificated flight instructor (CFI) to make an appointment.
   2. Present the completed FAA Form 8710-13 along with the online course completion certificate or knowledge test report (as applicable) and proof of a current flight review.
   3. The completed FAA Form 8710-13 application will be signed by the applicant after the FSDO, DPE, ACR, or CFI examines the applicant's photo identification and verifies the applicant's identity.
      1. The identification presented must include a photograph of the applicant, the applicant's signature, and the applicant's actual residential address (if different from the mailing address). This information may be presented in more than one form of identification.
      2. Acceptable methods of identification include, but are not limited to U.S. drivers' licenses, government identification cards, passports, and military identification cards (see AC 61-65 Certification: Pilots and Flight and Ground Instructors)
   4. The FAA representative will then sign the application.
4. An appropriate FSDO representative, a DPE, or an ACR will issue the applicant a temporary airman certificate (a CFI is not authorized to issue a temporary certificate; they can process applications for applicants who do not want a temporary certificate).
5. A permanent remote pilot certificate will be sent via mail once all other FAA-internal processing is complete.

 

[Tok Pilot]

Yep: Becoming a Pilot

Existing Pilots – What to Expect
Eligibility:

• Must hold a pilot certificate issued under 14 CFR part 61
• Must have completed a flight review within the previous 24 months

Remote Pilot Certificate Requirements

• Must be easily accessible by the remote pilot during all UAS operations
• Valid for 2 years – certificate holders must pass either a recurrent online training course OR recurrent knowledge test every two years

Application Process:

1. Complete the online training course "Part 107 small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS) ALC-451" available on the FAA FAASTeam website – initial training course areas include:
   1. Applicable regulations relating to small unmanned aircraft system rating privileges, limitations, and flight operation
   2. Effects of weather on small unmanned aircraft performance
   3. Small unmanned aircraft loading and performance
   4. Emergency procedures
   5. Crew resource management
   6. Determining the performance of small unmanned aircraft
   7. Maintenance and preflight inspection procedures
2. Complete FAA Form 8710-13 (FAA Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application for a remote pilot certificate)
   1. Online or by paper (see instructions in previous section)
3. Validate applicant identity
   1. Contact a FSDO, an FAA-designated pilot examiner (DPE), an airman certification representative (ACR), or an FAA-certificated flight instructor (CFI) to make an appointment.
   2. Present the completed FAA Form 8710-13 along with the online course completion certificate or knowledge test report (as applicable) and proof of a current flight review.
   3. The completed FAA Form 8710-13 application will be signed by the applicant after the FSDO, DPE, ACR, or CFI examines the applicant's photo identification and verifies the applicant's identity.
      1. The identification presented must include a photograph of the applicant, the applicant's signature, and the applicant's actual residential address (if different from the mailing address). This information may be presented in more than one form of identification.
      2. Acceptable methods of identification include, but are not limited to U.S. drivers' licenses, government identification cards, passports, and military identification cards (see AC 61-65 Certification: Pilots and Flight and Ground Instructors)
   4. The FAA representative will then sign the application.
4. An appropriate FSDO representative, a DPE, or an ACR will issue the applicant a temporary airman certificate (a CFI is not authorized to issue a temporary certificate; they can process applications for applicants who do not want a temporary certificate).
5. A permanent remote pilot certificate will be sent via mail once all other FAA-internal processing is complete.

Thanks, I'm going to do it when I get back to Alaska, I have 2 CFI's working for me.


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[shevlin]

I would not be looking at the airports - but the AIRSPACE.

§107.41 Operation in certain airspace. No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC). §107.43 Operation in the vicinity of airports. No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in a manner that interferes with operations and traffic patterns at any airport, heliport, or seaplane base.

Part 107 Test Questions (41 Sample Questions Explained) - Drone Law Attorney Services - Rupprecht Law, PA:
7 (Refer to FAA-CT-8080-2G, Figure 20, area 3.) How would a remote PIC "CHECK NOTAMS" as noted in the CAUTION box regarding the unmarked balloon?
A. By utilizing the B4UFLY mobile application. [That would be a nice feature but I don't know how much money the FAA will put into this app. That app is more like an airspace for dummies app. Airmap also dumbs things down and says you can't fly in a lot of places you can. Learn how to read charts so you know where you can legally fly to make more money.]
B. By contacting the FAA district office. [Nope. However, you should reach out to meet with these guys sometime. Let them know you are trying to be compliant and professional. Better to "set the stage" with that than if they come after you and remember you as the guy who did _________.]
C. By obtaining a briefing via an online source such as: 1800WXBrief.com. [You could do this. I suggest reading my article on 5 Ways to Prove You Did a Pre-Flight Briefing.]

Also read questions 25 & 27, they are helpful in this situation.

Consult SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts - and pay particular attention to DROTAMs (at the top).

 

[shevlin]

So, if I want to fly within 5 miles of a tower controlled (hobbyist), all I have to do is notify the tower? How do you notify the "airport" and the "tower" who is the "airport"? I would like to know what the FAA,s definition of an airport is. I land on the side of mountains and glaciers. Does that mean I can't fly my drone where I land because it is now an airport? I live in an area in Alaska that has a state owned uncontrolled airport, there is nobody to notify so I just fly at will, AND just use common sense. I have flown the drones of FAA employees, and they have flown mine right in front of my hangar out over the Tarmac. once the local D.O.T. superintendent who is in charge of highway maintenance and is also called the "airport manager" because he is in charge of airport maintenance only on the airport and is also on a power trip advised me that I need to notify HIM whenever I want to fly my drone within 5 miles of the airport, which would include my property. I responded by telling him I would talk to the FAA myself about it. When I did, the FAA told me he is dead wrong, doesn't know what he's talking about and to put in writing what he said and email it to him. I didn't, not worth it.


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You can look up whom to notify here: AirNav: Airport Search
It's got lots of great information about all airports.

 

[Tok Pilot]

Thanks, I'm going to do it when I get back to Alaska, I have 2 CFI's working for me.


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Took my online test today, printed out my certificate, now just need my CFI to do his part then send it in to the FSDO, it was pretty painless aside from the frustration in trying to figure out what to do and where to go next to complete the process.


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