Dangerous Drone Flying

[m0j0]

Commercially DJI has to be seen to be trying to prevent the idiots, the alternative is they go bust when the market disappears after laws are passed.

They already have accomplished that and the market isn't going anywhere. There will be more restrictive policies. That is inevitable but the market is going nowhere.


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[Richard-mavic]

They already have accomplished that and the market isn't going anywhere. There will be more restrictive policies. That is inevitable but the market is going nowhere.


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I agree, the market is here to stay. The more DJI can do in proactively encouraging better behaviour, the less heavy handed the response from the authorities will be.

 

[m0j0]

using arguments about them being Chinese with thinly veiled insinuations about national security is daft.

It's not thinly veiled. It is an outright statement of fact regarding the executive branch of the government in the US. I am in a small part very tuned in to this... see you never know who you are talking to on a board. I'm not saying it is logical or based in reality but companies have completely been taken off government contracts because of Chinese affiliations. This isn't something that is a secret or thinly veiled. So to believe that the FAA would in anyway share information about pilots with a Chinese company well sir that's in your own words "daft." There is zero chance of that happening. Don't believe me.. look up Blackberry.. what happened to their government contract? Why?


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[m0j0]

I agree, the market is here to stay. The more DJI can do in proactively encouraging better behaviour, the less heavy handed the response from the authorities will be.

Wrong again, you underestimate the resolve of idiocy. DJI can do whatever they like. It won't stop some moron from flying a drone over the SUPERBOWL. Technology moves incredibly fast. Pretty soon... like today, people with limited knowledge of avionics will be able to build their own bird and do whatever they like with it. DJI is at the forefront of geofencing. They are already doing their part. To restrict the bird further will not increase their market share.

Believe me that's all they care about.

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[UAV Man]

It's not thinly veiled. It is an outright statement of fact regarding the executive branch of the government in the US. I am in a small part very tuned in to this... see you never know who you are talking to on a board. I'm not saying it is logical or based in reality but companies have completely been taken off government contracts because of Chinese affiliations. This isn't something that is a secret or thinly veiled. So to believe that the FAA would in anyway share information about pilots with a Chinese company well sir that's in your own words "daft." There is zero chance of that happening. Don't believe me.. look up Blackberry.. what happened to their government contract? Why?


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I agree MoJo, I do think the Market in US will have to change, but how is the question. The paranoid authorities in the US will drive DJI away if they insist on full disclosure, my company has offices in US and China and know the US is a little suspect of any tech with China stamped on it. So guessing at some point Apple will need to start looking at home to manufacture.

The one thing we seem to agree on is more policing is BAD, how we stop the crazy pilots? Education i guess. But the 'Rebel Forces', no chance they will always try and go higher and further...

 

[Richard-mavic]

The US is not the only country in the world. I realise that many people on here are from the US, but many are not.

As for the bad behaviour point, I don't think you read my message properly. I said not all bad flying is by maniacs. If regulations were made to try and encompass all possibilities, there would be no cars, no roads, no guns, no pavements. Idiots will always be idiots. They are the ones the authorities should concentrate on with punitive punishments. The rest of society are relatively well policed with common sense and advice.

If the superbowl becomes a no fly zone, then people will have to request authorisation to fly over it. Why can't you see that this is effective, and is sensible?

 

[m0j0]

The one thing we seem to agree on is more policing is BAD, how we stop the crazy pilots? Education i guess. But the 'Rebel Forces', no chance they will always try and go higher and further...

The answer is.. we don't and won't be able to stop the crazy operators. Those folks will always be around. What we do need to do is truly define what outrageous and dangerous behavior is... we need laws, not rules, that are easy to interpret based in rational thought. Laws that are enforceable. In the US the rules regarding UAV flights are none of those. VLOS how in the world can that be enforced?



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[Slim.slamma]

Idiots will always be idiots

Wow, Mavic Pro Help is in need of community service. Where most know it all's never visit
Bash bash bash

 

[Richard-mavic]

VLOS how in the world can that be enforced?

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yes VLOS is very hard to define. Do you have to be able to see its orientation, or just be able to see it? It changes with craft size and colour, as well as climate, weather, time of day, etc. It's hard to define.

However, France has a speed limit for dry weather and a speed limit for wet weather. Very sensible. But pretty hard to define as well, given the amount of grey area inbetween the two. Doesn't mean it is a bad policy though, and I'm sure they have ways of enforcing it that everyone understands.

 

[m0j0]

If the superbowl becomes a no fly zone, then people will have to request authorisation to fly over it. Why can't you see that this is effective, and is sensible?

Yes I agree it is effective for DJI to use GEO. I was an early adopter knowing it would place restrictions on where I can fly. That said, You do realize that the SUBERBOWL and other sporting venues like that are already no fly zones right?

You realize that the truly determined will still find ways to get around it. My point is DJI is already doing their part. We don't need more GEO. We need accurate ones.. my biggest issue with the comments above wasn't GEO. It is the notion that we make some areas unlockable for pro's. That's unnecessary and not going to happen because there is no way the FAA will allow a Chinese company access to pilot data.



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[Richard-mavic]

so we're basically in agreement. My issue is that you would dismiss what is essentially a good idea by picking one way in which it might not work. I'm happy about the DJI Geo thing - it is an improvement on the no fly zones arrangement.

Perhaps it's enough that DJI have a record anybody wishing to unlock those areas. They have their address and financial info (ie, they are identified and verified) and so therefore DJI can grant the necessary permissions without having to do any checks at all, and the person doing the flying knows that they are on record as having requested it. It takes away the anonymity of reckless flying. If someone asks to fly over the superbowl (which not long in the future will be essential), then that request is on record, and it's not unimaginable to think that DJI would share that information if requested. They've already said:

DJI does not collect nor store this information, which is verified by a third party service.

so i'm sure if they can access US financial information, they can share that the other way.

 

[kiteboy]

Yes I agree it is effective for DJI to use GEO. I was an early adopter knowing it would place restrictions on where I can fly. That said, You do realize that the SUBERBOWL and other sporting venues like that are already no fly zones right?

You realize that the truly determined will still find ways to get around it. My point is DJI is already doing their part. We don't need more GEO. We need accurate ones.. my biggest issue with the comments above wasn't GEO. It is the notion that we make some areas unlockable for pro's. That's unnecessary and not going to happen because there is no way the FAA will allow a Chinese company access to pilot data.



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This is just an idea!!

They don't need to share anything! It's very simple in fact you want to go restricted zones?

1) make registration forms in order to gather useful info not just only your email

2) request further info yo unlock it, (I.e picture of your license) they don't need it to "police" the pilots but for covering their respective ***** when someone decides that their drone deserves grass seats at the super bowl!

But then again why will DJI do anything if it's not required by a government?

 

[Richard-mavic]

But then again why will DJI do anything if it's not required by a government?

corporate social responsibility. many of the world's biggest firms spend hundreds of millions on it. (think Shell, BP, etc). Public opinion counts for a lot in the eyes of the shareholders. That is why this is happening.

 

[m0j0]

I know the US isn't the only country of import.. it's my country though so naturally my perspective is from that point of view.

yes VLOS is very hard to define. Do you have to be able to see its orientation, or just be able to see it? It changes with craft size and colour, as well as climate, weather, time of day, etc. It's hard to define..

As someone charged with doing the enforcing.... VLOS is a nightmare. And would be thrown out in any courtroom.. which is the reason it is a guideline and not a law.

However, France has a speed limit for dry weather and a speed limit for wet weather. Very sensible. But pretty hard to define as well, given the amount of grey area inbetween the two. Doesn't mean it is a bad policy though, and I'm sure they have ways of enforcing it that everyone understands.

Well I disagree. Any law that is so ambiguous that it is rendered unenforceable is a bad law. ISpeed limits are clear and easy to enforce. Yep 75 in a 65. There is a fine for that.




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[kiteboy]

so we're basically in agreement. My issue is that you would dismiss what is essentially a good idea by picking one way in which it might not work. I'm happy about the DJI Geo thing - it is an improvement on the no fly zones arrangement.

Perhaps it's enough that DJI have a record anybody wishing to unlock those areas. They have their address and financial info (ie, they are identified and verified) and so therefore DJI can grant the necessary permissions without having to do any checks at all, and the person doing the flying knows that they are on record as having requested it. It takes away the anonymity of reckless flying. If someone asks to fly over the superbowl (which not long in the future will be essential), then that request is on record, and it's not unimaginable to think that DJI would share that information if requested. They've already said:

DJI does not collect nor store this information, which is verified by a third party service.

so i'm sure if they can access US financial information, they can share that the other way.

You're assuming that everyone with a DJI drone purchased directly from DJI

I didn't and for my the account was created only by email and name I think (a while ago) but I didn't input anything verifiable or financial information

 

[Richard-mavic]

well I disagree. Any law that is so ambiguous that it is rendered unenforceable is a bad law. ISpeed limits are clear and easy to enforce. Yep 75 in a 65. There is a fine for that.

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'rain' is ambiguous. There are many stages of weather between 'dry' and 'rain'. But that is the law. I'm sure a few cases end up being argued in court, and some slip through as un-enforcable. But I would imagine that the majority of people slow down when it is wet or slightly wet = Objective achieved.

 

[kiteboy]

corporate social responsibility. many of the world's biggest firms spend hundreds of millions on it. (think Shell, BP, etc). Public opinion counts for a lot in the eyes of the shareholders. That is why this is happening.

That's what drove them into GEO but why would they on their on decide that license number or anything like that needs to be a requirement? Remember that number only exists in US I think! That's why two way or even better three way input on legislation ideas are required!

Just think about any other industry that had to implement security measures in order to comply with local laws!

 

[Richard-mavic]

That's what drove them into GEO but why would they on their on decide that license number or anything like that needs to be a requirement? Remember that number only exists in US I think! That's why two way or even better three way input on legislation ideas are required!

Just think about any other industry that had to implement security measures in order to comply with local laws!

on the DJI site they talk about knowing of an FAA licensed operator who has permission to fly within the 15 mile radius of Washington DC. The info must change hands one way or another. DJI have a strong presence in USA - they do many product launches there.

From my point of view, if I knew i had to officially register interest in flying somewhere 'prohibited' before doing so, it would put me off any vague fantasies about breaking the law.

 

[kiteboy]

I correct my self legislation is not the correct term! I meant regulations (because it needs to come from the community and DJI) and work seamlessly across the globe

That's why I think GEO is the way to go but it's still in diapers

 

[kiteboy]

on the DJI site they talk about knowing of an FAA licensed operator who has permission to fly within the 15 mile radius of Washington DC. The info must change hands one way or another. DJI have a strong presence in USA - they do many product launches there.

From my point of view, if I knew i had to officially register interest in flying somewhere 'prohibited' before doing so, it would put me off any vague fantasies about breaking the law.

We are agreeing on the end goal but not on the how!

You guys only think in US but forget that is not the only country on which these are being sold or just a simple fact that you being an US citizen can't hop on an plane an be half way across the globe in hours! Do you really think that accidents and bad media in other countries doesn't affect you or your government actions?