How to Exceed Max Altitude for Mountain Flying?

Robert Granata · Feb 20, 2017

Xanth said:
EUREEKA! After 138 posts I can finally answer part of my original question.

The ATOP (altitude at take off point) does reset once the props stop. And no Bothans died to get us this information.

I found a park at the base of a steep mountain slope, and there was a walking path that went from that park up the side of the mountain to a height of 400+ ft above the park. I took off from the park and landed very carefully on the path, and in the instant the props stopped the altitude reset to zero. Unfortunately, a second later I got the message that the connection to the Mavic was lost. And as everyone knows, losing connection when in the air is no big deal thanks to RTH. Losing connection on the ground with the props stopped leaves you SOL. So I started running toward the path, not certain if there was some software reason why I'd been suddenly disconnected. Fortunately, I only had to run 100 ft or so before Ready To Fly came back. At that point it was easy to take off and I was able to ascend an additional 1640+ ft.

So, this opens a couple of more questions.
1) If a Mavic is above you and on the ground, is the onboard antenna always somewhat blocked by the ground?
2) Theoretically, if you were to kill the props at Max Altitude, would the altimeter reset, and could you then regain control?

I would be really interested if a flier who is spending someone else's money could test question #2. I've been pretty adventurous so far, but that is not something I'm going to test.

Many Happy Returns

That's great. When I tried it and it didn't work, I just landed and used the app to reset the home point to the drone's position. I didn't think of turning off the props.

1. I think you are right about the signal being blocked by the ground. Maybe find a jutting outcrop to land on?

2. Maybe we can get Casey Niestat to test this.

Helo · Feb 20, 2017

I think we should name this thread, "Stupid drone tricks".

gregw · Feb 21, 2017

Max height is a limit I wish DJI had been more generous... We're planning a trip to drive up to the 5th Station on Mount Fuji in Japan in a few month, and I sure wish I could fly the Mavic all the way to the top of the crater from there... But, 5th Station is only located around 2300M while Mount Fuji tops out at 3770M, so the peak/crater of Mount Fuji about 1500M higher...

And, when we are there, it's still off season for climbing up Mount Fuji, so non of the higher stations would be opened yet, and it's way too dangerous to climb up...

_milo_ · Feb 21, 2017

Here's the video I was thinking of, attempt to break 500m ceiling by flying the phantom up, then drop and start the motors...Classic.

JLane · Feb 21, 2017

I've recently read at least a couple of posts where people have had an issue with their Mavic in RTH mode. They've reported that the Mavic has ascended well past not only the RTH altitude, but also the max altitude they had set. The theory is that forward OA is falsely detecting an obstacle and causing the Mavic to keep ascending to try and clear it. I don't know what this apparent bug would cause the Mavic to do when it reaches the absolute height limit, not just the user-set limit.

I have no desire or intention to try this myself (I don't live near any mountains), but If I were to try it out, here's what I would probably do:

- Obstruct the forward vision sensors, but not enough that the Mavic simply thinks it's too dark and disables OA
- Manually disable forward OA before taking off
- Make sure Smart RTH is enabled
- Fly to max alt, and then enable forward OA
- Initiate RTH
- See if the Mavic will ascend and continue to ascend past the max altitude limit
- Once the desired altitude is reached, cancel RTH

There are definitely some risks involved in trying something like this, and I'm not sure I'd want to try it myself, but it's one possible work-around I just thought I'd put out there. I would certainly want to think it through very carefully before trying it.

Linus Anakin · Feb 21, 2017

WolfgangStiller said:
I fly above 4000 meters all the time. No problem. The Mavic is certified to 5000 meters and I'd guess it can actually go higher than that but naturally climb rate will be lower and battery consumption a bit higher.

I understand now. Thanks guys!

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unco · Feb 21, 2017

Hi all,

Looks like this thread contains a lot of opinions so I decided to use it to develop this topic if you'd allow me

The case is very relevant for me - I often travel to the mountains and want to film them from above. 500m limit forces me to hike hundreds of meters up and to spend hours to do something I would still do - flying above the peak or close to the peaks.

Therefore, two questions:

Does anyone know where is 500m limit ATOP coming from? I don't live or travel in the US, so FAA restrictions are not applicable. Why some of the more stricter regulations like flying close to airfields can easily be overridden and this one is not?

Is there any official statement from DJI related to our ask to address mountain flying? If we can simply hike to overcome this, how is that related to any regulations?

Thanks

cobra46 · Feb 21, 2017

unco said:
Hi all,

Looks like this thread contains a lot of opinions so I decided to use it to develop this topic if you'd allow me

The case is very relevant for me - I often travel to the mountains and want to film them from above. 500m limit forces me to hike hundreds of meters up and to spend hours to do something I would still do - flying above the peak or close to the peaks.

Therefore, two questions:

Does anyone know where is 500m limit ATOP coming from? I don't live or travel in the US, so FAA restrictions are not applicable. Why some of the more stricter regulations like flying close to airfields can easily be overridden and this one is not?

Is there any official statement from DJI related to our ask to address mountain flying? If we can simply hike to overcome this, how is that related to any regulations?

Thanks

I think DJI will provide custom firmware to those who have real need to exceed the built in 500m limit. An example of this would be someone doing building or tower inspections.

unco · Feb 21, 2017

cobra46 said:
I think DJI will provide custom firmware to those who have real need to exceed the built in 500m limit. An example of this would be someone doing building or tower inspections.

That would be a valid point. Has anyone tried to investigate if there is an official process? Someone who would be doing tower inspections shouldn't be given more privileges than a talented landscape photographer, who would like to save hiking time

Andart · Feb 21, 2017

[quote uid=4084 name="Andart" post=105181]I agree with most and I would never test it but I think with the weight of a drone and the turbulence and speed of an airline that a collision would never happen . And as of yet I've never seen a proven crash . Also all these videos of mavic flying at extremely high altitude are probably fake. It has been mentioned about the time to get to such altitude and home safely , also the winds at a few hundred feet are very different to ground level , I'd think your drone at say 2km high would sale a long way in the winds . I think the pilots are thinking drones because of all the news at the moment and most sightings are probably wrong . I totally think how hard at 500 ft it is for me to see a drone let alone a pilot when adding speed weather concentration , any pilot will tell you that you fly a plain more through instruments than sight Sent from my SM-G935F using MavicPilots mobile app[/QUOTE] Bird strikes with aircraft are a common problem world wide so it can and does happen. As for proof, how about the story of Chesley Sullenberger, who became a hero after landing his damaged plane on the Hudson River after flying though a flock of geese. Just google "bird strikes". From my observation it seems that most pilot drone sightings are around airfields when aircraft are on approach or departure at lower altitude. After over 10,000 hours of flying helicopters under visual flight rules (VFR) I can tell you I spent 98% of my time with my head on a swivel looking outside and the other 2% cross checking the instruments. Any pilot who flies VFR and has his eyes on the instruments more than outside of the cockpit should turn in their Airman Certificate, there's a reason they call it Visual Flight Rules.

I said proof of drone impact not bird . Yes there are bird strikes if you mean getting sucked into the engines , and as you so well put it about Hudson river . But I doubt you will ever in counter a flock of drones . 20 geese of each mavic let's see average Canadian goose 20kg mavic 1.5 kg .
Bird strikes landing taking off not at the altitudes some of these so call drone sightings. Maybe 20 inspires flying in front of airplane and even they would still weigh a lot less .
But one mavic , I still don't think pilot would see and I don't think it would ever contact airline with the turbulence and airflow

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AlanTheBeast · Feb 21, 2017

_milo_ said:
Official FAA identification chart

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ROFL. Literally.

AlanTheBeast · Feb 21, 2017

Andart said:
[quote uid=4084 name="Andart" post=105181]I agree with most and I would never test it but I think with the weight of a drone and the turbulence and speed of an airline that a collision would never happen . And as of yet I've never seen a proven crash . Also all these videos of mavic flying at extremely high altitude are probably fake. It has been mentioned about the time to get to such altitude and home safely , also the winds at a few hundred feet are very different to ground level , I'd think your drone at say 2km high would sale a long way in the winds . I think the pilots are thinking drones because of all the news at the moment and most sightings are probably wrong . I totally think how hard at 500 ft it is for me to see a drone let alone a pilot when adding speed weather concentration , any pilot will tell you that you fly a plain more through instruments than sight Sent from my SM-G935F using MavicPilots mobile app

Bird strikes with aircraft are a common problem world wide so it can and does happen. As for proof, how about the story of Chesley Sullenberger, who became a hero after landing his damaged plane on the Hudson River after flying though a flock of geese. Just google "bird strikes". From my observation it seems that most pilot drone sightings are around airfields when aircraft are on approach or departure at lower altitude. After over 10,000 hours of flying helicopters under visual flight rules (VFR) I can tell you I spent 98% of my time with my head on a swivel looking outside and the other 2% cross checking the instruments. Any pilot who flies VFR and has his eyes on the instruments more than outside of the cockpit should turn in their Airman Certificate, there's a reason they call it Visual Flight Rules.

I said proof of drone impact not bird . Yes there are bird strikes if you mean getting sucked into the engines , and as you so well put it about Hudson river . But I doubt you will ever in counter a flock of drones . 20 geese of each mavic let's see average Canadian goose 20kg mavic 1.5 kg .
Bird strikes landing taking off not at the altitudes some of these so call drone sightings. Maybe 20 inspires flying in front of airplane and even they would still weigh a lot less .
But one mavic , I still don't think pilot would see and I don't think it would ever contact airline with the turbulence and airflow
[/QUOTE]

If a Mavic hit an A-320 engine, chances are very good that all of it would (following rapid disassembly) be thrown through the bypass of the engine while only making light dings to the fan.

Or, parts of the Mavic make it into the compressor. Bad **** follows - but nothing a pilot can't handle. Not like there would be a flock of MP's and both engines being taken out.

All that joyful happiness behind, the more drone-aircraft incidents that there are, the more pressure to contain us will happen. (And yes, I know that's a fake - but a lot of people seeing it won't know).

AlanTheBeast · Feb 22, 2017

_milo_ said:
Here's the video I was thinking of, attempt to break 500m ceiling by flying the phantom up, then drop and start the motors...Classic.

Awesome try! I think what they need to design is the means to have a single release point at the centre (so there are no inter-hook delays) and if possible to have the Phantom motors spun up before release. The presenter was great. I'm sure they'll get there with their "top mount". No news since, alas. Expensive hobby that!

BadBob · Feb 22, 2017

woodmnctry said:
Maybe we can get DJI to make a "Colorado" version --- that would work!

What about the Washington version. We have two mountain ranges and every thing is on a hill. No flat ground here!

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WolfgangStiller · Feb 22, 2017

BadBob said:
What about the Washington version. We have two mountain ranges and every thing is on a hill. No flat ground here!

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No need for a special version. We just need to enable a higher setting than 500m in the max alt in DJI Go/Go4/Litchi. It appears to be enforced in the DJI API since it's the same max value everywhere.