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The Statue of Liberty with my Mavic

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In order to eliminate any and all confusion about the rules, here are the actual regulations straight from the National Park Service
To:
"Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of [insert name of park] is prohibited except as approved in writing by the superintendent."
However - per the FAA at a meeting yesterday - the park doesn't have jurisdiction over the airspace within the park, so you can fly in a park, you just can't take off or land. One often heard comment at the meeting was, it's up to the judge at your trial. The park will not win a case against you, but can get you in a courtroom. Do you really want to to there?
 
I've seen some video on youtube of some guy telling how a ranger knocked on his door, handing him a $250 ticket for flying over a national park... now, imagine yourself in this situation... if you are going to win the case, would you really go to court for $250? Doubt it.
 
The footage is awesome. I could care less about the legality of it all. Nobody was hurt filming it and I didn't see anything that would make me believe that the OP was reckless in his operation of his MAVIC.

For all you drone police have fun posting videos flying over a cornfield
 
The footage is awesome. I could care less about the legality of it all. Nobody was hurt filming it and I didn't see anything that would make me believe that the OP was reckless in his operation of his MAVIC.

For all you drone police have fun posting videos flying over a cornfield


But for good gods sake man you might crash and ruin a farmers corn crop!!!
 
I could care less about the legality of it all.

Since the site's rules do not permit me to reply in a manner more suited to your observation, I will simply compliment you on your perception of integrity and your sophistic ability to discount that which does not comport with your perception of the circumstances. Bravo!
 
Hey, GREAT video. Really, really beautiful work.

But, JROK is absolutely correct in his assessment of the illegality of overflying the Statue of Liberty and any lands in the National Park System - regardless of where you take off and land. The rule is primarily about drones in the air, not about the takeoff and landing phases of flight. Regulators and judges look at the intent of the rule. Have you ever read, "those **** drones are taking off and landing and ruining everything"? It's about the flight.

"Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of [insert name of park] is prohibited except as approved in writing by the superintendent."

Using your argument, a waterfowl hunter hunting from a blind adjacent to NPS land could shoot a duck flying inside of the park, as long as it was in flight.

I am a forest ecologist and have long-term ecological research (LTER) sites in a national park (and elsewhere). One of the sites was even located on a small NPS parcel isolated from the main block. We asked for permission to overfly the NPS sites and we were denied, even though the launch/recover location for the small parcel was not on NPS land. Nope.

We were told to make a request to fly in the far depths of the off-season ... which doesn't work for us since we are doing foliage studies. Because the rangers have busted several hobbyist operators over the past year alone, the superintendent is being cautious right now. Completely understandable. But it's because of illegal fliers that he's being restrictive on permissions.

Also, with all of the hysteria about terrorists using drones, it's easy to understand that the government would be on high alert and prosecute "potential threats" to American icons. Prohibition is prohibition, whether it hurts law-abiding citizens or not. Let's work to change the regs.

It's your choice to make such a flight and it's your 107 license to put at risk. You can argue airspace and insist that "banning operating from lands and water does not mean banning operating above the park" but that's not going to fly with FAA, NPS, or the courts. In some way, the mere presence of this video is taunting FAA or NPS to come after you. You've given the regulators and courts all of the evidence they need to find you, take your license, and fine you ... you've even given them the blueprint for your defense. There is no doubt that you created a lovely film - absolutely - but if I were you, I'd pull that video in a second and delete all of my comments in this forum, and get a new membership and screen name. But that's just me.

BTW, this ain't "drone police" stuff ... it's fair discussion. You can do what you want to do. As for the commenters who think that this is over-regulation, that may be the case, but this is NOT the way to get the rules changed. If you guys think that you're overburdened by the rules, how do you think that those of us who have flown long-range FPV fixed/rotor for many years feel right now? I have a fleet of 20-mile RT autonomous Pixhawk-based mapping planes that are pretty much grounded right now. But I'm not going to go and violate the law because I know I am a safe, responsible pilot with well-maintained gear and thus the rules don't apply to me. I'm going to wait for the shake-out and see where it all goes, and go for the waivers wherever and whenever possible.

Personally, I am grateful to JROK for his analysis and contribution. It was logical and well-supported. We need this kind of discussion as the business or hobby progresses. There is no need to censor such opinions.

You are wrong. Per the NPS Memo previously linked:

9. Does it matter where an unmanned aircraft is used for the required closures to apply?

Yes. The NPS has the authority to regulate or prohibit the use of unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS. As a result, the compendium closures required by the Policy Memorandum only apply to launching, landing, or operating unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS within the boundaries of the park. The closures do not apply to launching, landing, or operating unmanned aircraft from or on non-federally (e.g., private or state) owned lands located within the exterior boundaries of the park. The closures do not apply to the flight of unmanned aircraft in the airspace above a park if the device is launched, landed, and operated from or on lands and waters that are not administered by the NPS.

To:
 
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Finally someone brought up VLOS!

I don't know why everyone is so stuck on the NPS issue (esp. the OP), its not the answer - The NPS argument that is.




... and Drone Police? Your not it but I know who is ;) LOL

LOL! You brought it up! You've just been trying to find a reason why this flight was illegal. First it was "Overhead" flights in NPS. Then it was TFRs that don't exist. Then it was SFRs that only apply to Class B. Now it's VLOS, lol.

The funny thing is people post videos ALL THE TIME of flying outside of VLOS over their neighborhoods or wherever, but no one ever says anything. Only because this video is more dramatic, people immediately NEED to find something wrong and start citing all kinds of things they really don't know about.
 
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"Launching, landing, or operating an unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the National Park Service within the boundaries of [insert name of park] is prohibited except as approved in writing by the superintendent."
However - per the FAA at a meeting yesterday - the park doesn't have jurisdiction over the airspace within the park, so you can fly in a park, you just can't take off or land. One often heard comment at the meeting was, it's up to the judge at your trial. The park will not win a case against you, but can get you in a courtroom. Do you really want to to there?
People seem to be ignoring the requirement that it be "from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS." That clearly means if you are operating from outside the lands or waters of the NPS, it isn't prohibited.
 
The funny thing is people post videos ALL THE TIME of flying outside of VLOS over their neighborhoods or wherever, but no one ever says anything. Only because this video is more dramatic, people immediately NEED to find something wrong

It's because of two reasons:

1. It may have been filmed outside the US, where VLOS might not apply. Clearly that's not the case here.
2. We get tired of trying to explain the rules to members like RamiAgonistes who "could care less about the legality of it all".

He was well within his rights to overfly the Statue. He was not within his rights to be non-LOS (hobbyist or Part 107) or to overfly people (Part 107). A quick look at the map will tell you that the only way he could do this flight legally would be to fly from someone's boat in the harbor outside of NPS-regulated waters - or to have LOS and people overflight waivers under Part 107.

The video, quite frankly, is excellent. Had it been obtained legally, I'd be offering kudos. However, it wasn't, and I don't think that rulebreaking should be encouraged - quite the opposite, in fact.
 
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It's because of two reasons:

1. It may have been filmed outside the US, where VLOS might not apply. Clearly that's not the case here.
2. We get tired of trying to explain the rules to members like RamiAgonistes who "could care less about the legality of it all".

He was well within his rights to overfly the Statue. He was not within his rights to be non-LOS (hobbyist or Part 107) or to overfly people (Part 107). A quick look at the map will tell you that the only way he could do this flight legally would be to fly from someone's boat in the harbor outside of NPS-regulated waters - or to have LOS and people overflight waivers under Part 107.

The video, quite frankly, is excellent. Had it been obtained legally, I'd be offering kudos. However, it wasn't, and I don't think that rulebreaking should be encouraged - quite the opposite, in fact.

Lol, I wonder how many copied DVD or illegally obtained movies he has on his computer, I wonder if he ever ran a red light or disobeyed a traffic law, and since we have all these outstanding forum members who choose to throw the first stone, I'm sure they never violated anything in their life. If the violation was so obvious, I think he already knows. I don't remember this thread being started to inquire about rule infractions.

Start your own thread if you want to complain about rule violations (or not). The videos will keep being posted, and the rules aren't the way they are because of flying over a national monument and taking beautiful video, it's because of uneducated, and irresponsible persons who put others in harms way. This flight posed less threat then the 747 flying over cities several times a day.
 
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Lol, I wonder how many copied DVD or illegally obtained movies he has on his computer, I wonder if he ever ran a red light or disobeyed a traffic law, and since we have all these outstanding forum members who choose to throw the first stone, I'm sure they never violated anything in their life. If the violation was so obvious, I think he already knows. I don't remember this thread being started to inquire about rule infractions.

Start your own thread if you want to complain about rule violations (or not). The videos will keep being posted, and the rules aren't the way they are because of flying over a national monument and taking beautiful video, it's because of uneducated, and irresponsible persons who put others in harms way. This flight posed less threat then the 747 flying over cities several times a day.


You're right. I won't try to educate anyone anymore. I'll just send the evidence to the FSDO and be done with it. Thanks for setting me straight. Got any videos to share?
 
I believe 107 cert holders can fly in Class G airspace without permission as a Hobbyist, and as a Hobbyist, VLOS is a Guideline, not a Rule. Thoughts?
 
You are wrong. Per the NPS Memo previously linked:

9. Does it matter where an unmanned aircraft is used for the required closures to apply?

Yes. The NPS has the authority to regulate or prohibit the use of unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS. As a result, the compendium closures required by the Policy Memorandum only apply to launching, landing, or operating unmanned aircraft from or on lands and waters administered by the NPS within the boundaries of the park. The closures do not apply to launching, landing, or operating unmanned aircraft from or on non-federally (e.g., private or state) owned lands located within the exterior boundaries of the park. The closures do not apply to the flight of unmanned aircraft in the airspace above a park if the device is launched, landed, and operated from or on lands and waters that are not administered by the NPS.

To:


I just read that and you are correct and I was wrong. Happy flying.
 
You're right. I won't try to educate anyone anymore. I'll just send the evidence to the FSDO and be done with it. Thanks for setting me straight. Got any videos to share?

Yah, when I worked enforcement we loved narcs like you who thought every neighborhood kid was dealing. Feel welcome to bother the Feds all you want. They'll get tired of your fullishness.
 
I just read that and you are correct and I was wrong. Happy flying.

Thanks... sorry for the tone. I'm just a bit tired of all the "experts" on here who don't even know what the rules are.
 
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This may be obvious - sorry to beat this to death....

I called the sUAS FAA people to ask if this question:

Question: "If I am Part 107 certified, but operating my drone for "fun/recreationally" - am I still required to operate according to Part 107 rules?"
Answer: "No. It's like an airline pilot on his day off flying a private aircraft. It's the operation - not the pilot that dictates which rule you follow. If you're just flying for fun - not compensation - then you only have to follow the hobbyist rules."

As a point of clarification- if you are Part 107 certified, and flying for pleasure. Can you fly under Part 107 Rules or do you have to fly under hobby rules? I'm curious if you're certified if you have the option of which rules when not flying for commercial purposes?
 
if you are Part 107 certified, and flying for pleasure. Can you fly under Part 107 Rules or do you have to fly under hobby rules?
You can fly under either set of rules. You must determine which rules you're going to follow before taking off. See more details in the FAA FAQ.
 
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