A few questions about the legality of some scenarios

[Olwyn]

Hello! I've just got a couple of questions about rules/laws on some flights in the UK, as the legal jargon is much more difficult to decipher than plain English.

For reference, I am using a Mini 3 Pro drone with no additional attachments - it's still 249g.

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What is the law regarding flying at sunset and sunrise? At these times of day, is it a requirement to use strobes and/or navigation lights on my drone or am I legally safe to fly without them provided I have VLOS of the drone? It is my understanding that night flights require additional strobes and/or navigation lights, but I'm unsure if that extends into these times.

If I am required to fly with strobes at these times of day, attaching these would put my drone over 249g and thus into a different class... Would this then require me to have an A2 CofC Certification?

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I hope that all makes sense! Just looking for some clarification on what I need to be doing to ensure I'm flying legally at these times of day before I attempt.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Whilst I have not looked into UK rules concerning night flights I would ask, are you mixing up jurisdictions by any chance?
The USA does have night flight rules that require strobes etc. .......

 

[Olwyn]

Whilst I have not looked into UK rules concerning night flights I would ask, are you mixing up jurisdictions by any chance?
The USA does have night flight rules that require strobes etc. .......

Quite possibly - I've been trawling a lot of places where night flights and strobes are mentioned, some people mentioning UK, others mentioning US, so I'm just looking for someone well-informed on UK legislature/laws to confirm whether what I've mentioned will require strobes or not.

It's all a little confusing, but I'll get there...

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

It's all a little confusing,

Personally I think that is a gross understatement. In Mancunian, it does my head in. Lol

 

[Olwyn]

Personally I think that is a gross understatement. In Mancunian, it does my head in. Lol

I like to be optimistic! Unfortunately I've not found it very easy to access concrete, official information that isn't outdated or likely to change before I can keep up with it. I just want to try and do my best to make sure I'm covered with whatever I choose to do, but they don't make it easy for you.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

It is a very grey area there in the UK, isn't it ?
Here in Australia, rec pilots are not allowed to fly from dusk to sunrise, in the US they have had relatively free night flight rules until recently, now requires permission I think, even part 107 perhaps.

Anyway, I find it odd that the UK hasn't got this addressed like many other word airspace authorities.

Google searching and even the CAA sight fails to mention it from what I could find.

I did find this, scroll down the page half way . . .

Can You Fly Your Drone at Night? - Consortiq

"So, when looking at drones in the “open category“, where operations are considered low risk and all required permissions are in place, once the relevant rules are followed, no further authorization from the CAA is required for flying at night."

I would play it safe and email the CAA to enquire.

 

[SethB]

…If I am required to fly with strobes at these times of day, attaching these would put my drone over 249g and thus into a different class... Would this then require me to have an A2 CofC Certification?...

It’s quite possible that adding (lightweight) strobes would not put you over 249g. I know, it says “249g” right on the side of the drone, but that is a weight class, not an actual weight.

My Mini 2 weighs about 238g, and adding a Firehouse Dual (formerly Cree 2) only brings it up to about 245g. It also has printing on the side indicating that it is a 249g drone. I’ve covered that up with a label listing its native weight and what it is with a strobe.

FYI, you can and should weigh your drone - you may be able to keep to your weight class even with a lightweight strobe - if required!

How to weigh: I had purchased a $15 USD Amazon Basics scale for baking, many have small gram scales for that or for fine coffee.

I have no idea on laws in the UK…

 

[Olwyn]

It is a very grey area there in the UK, isn't it ?

Certainly feels like it - I feel as if I've got to hop through a few loops to get the information I need.

I would play it safe and email the CAA to enquire.

Very good idea... I'll write up an email to see if I can get a definitive answer.

Regarding the page you linked: The CAP722 document from the CAA reads that the basic VLOS principles still apply and that there are no specific prohibitions to flying at night - however, I'm certain part of maintaining VLOS at night time would be providing a strobe or navigation lights for the drone.

Dusk/dawn seems like a bit of a grey area and open to interpretation. I'd imagine if the person in command of the drone is able to see it clearly, then there shouldn't be an issue?

I'll see what they have to say!

 

[Ty Pilot]

If I am not mistaken the laws in the UK regarding UA flight in civil twilight are the same as here in the US. So regarding flying at 'sunset or sunrise'. Basically; no flight prior to, or after official sunset in your location without strobes.

Here is the definition of Civil Twilight:

Civil Twilight:
Begins in the morning, or ends in the evening, when the geometric center of the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. Therefore morning civil twilight begins when the geometric center of the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon, and ends at sunrise.


And here is the FAA's regulations regarding UA flight at night as it pertains to twilight. Note I have only quoted the part that matters to the OP's question


(b) No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft system during periods of civil twilight unless the small unmanned aircraft has lighted anti-collision lighting visible for at least 3 statute miles that has a flash rate sufficient to avoid a collision.

 

[Olwyn]

It’s quite possible that adding (lightweight) strobes would not put you over 249g. I know, it says “249g” right on the side of the drone, but that is a weight class, not an actual weight.

...

FYI, you can and should weigh your drone - you may be able to keep to your weight class even with a lightweight strobe - if required!

Good points, thank you!

I never considered that it could be under 249g, I was just under the assumption that DJI used up every last gram available to them while keeping it in that under 250g class. I've got some baking scales somewhere, so I might give that a go and see what kind of space I have to work with regarding adding strobes.

 

[Olwyn]

If I am not mistaken the laws in the UK regarding UA flight in civil twilight are the same as here in the US. So regarding flying at 'sunset or sunrise'. Basically; no flight prior to, or after official sunset in your location.

They're quite possibly the same, or at least similar, but I'll likely write to the CAA to see if I can get an official response & clarification.

I'd love to just add some strobes/nav-lights and call it there, but unfortunately if it tips my drone into the 250g bracket I don't have the eye-watering amount of money it costs to attain an A2 CofC certificate currently; I do plan to in the future in case I want to pilot larger, heavier drones, but currently I can escape it with my mini.

 

[SkyeHigh]

Hello! I've just got a couple of questions about rules/laws on some flights in the UK, as the legal jargon is much more difficult to decipher than plain English.

For reference, I am using a Mini 3 Pro drone with no additional attachments - it's still 249g.

---

What is the law regarding flying at sunset and sunrise? At these times of day, is it a requirement to use strobes and/or navigation lights on my drone or am I legally safe to fly without them provided I have VLOS of the drone? It is my understanding that night flights require additional strobes and/or navigation lights, but I'm unsure if that extends into these times.

If I am required to fly with strobes at these times of day, attaching these would put my drone over 249g and thus into a different class... Would this then require me to have an A2 CofC Certification?

---

I hope that all makes sense! Just looking for some clarification on what I need to be doing to ensure I'm flying legally at these times of day before I attempt.

You can legally fly 30-mins before official sunrise and 30-mins after official sunset without requiring additional lights. Beyond these times during darkness you cannot fly without certification. Bit of a pain in Winter there with such short days but great during the summer.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

The CAP722 document from the CAA reads that the basic VLOS principles still apply and that there are no specific prohibitions to flying at night - however, I'm certain part of maintaining VLOS at night time would be providing a strobe or navigation lights for the drone.

I’d say so.
Strobes are generally for manned aircraft to see your drone at X distance, rather than VLOS matters
I’d also gauge common sense wise that VLOS at night would be at most what it would be during daylight, as after all that rule is about being able to satisfactorily be aware of manned aircraft that may be approaching airspace your drone is in.
Hard enough during the day at times if going BVLOS, at night this would be much more difficult.

All the best with your CAA email, I’d say you should receive a reasonably quick response, and hopefully fully clarify this for yourself and others here in the UK.

 

[old man mavic]

@Olwyn, there is no specific law to prevent you from flying your drone at night in the UK ,other than the fact that it will be much more difficult to judge the distance that the drone is from the ground ,or from trees ,buildings etc, just being able to see a flashing strobe light ,will of course help you to see where the drone is in the sky ,but not its relationship to obstacles ,also remember that in order for the OA to work it needs a certain amount of light ,

 

[Olwyn]

Hi all, thank you for the comments - I think I'll play it safe for now and await an official response from the CAA before attempting any sunset/sunrise flights w/o strobes. I have plenty of time anyway, still getting used to the Mini 3P.

I'm a bit of a worrier when it comes to wanting to do the right thing, but I just want to make sure I'm responsible & in the right.

 

[KurtpH]

I don’t own a mini, but I’m surprised that someone hasn’t invented a semi-rigid dirigible attachment to accept enough helium to reduce the weight to near zero for anyone interested in adding lights, etc.

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

I don’t own a mini, but I’m surprised that someone hasn’t invented a semi-rigid dirigible attachment to accept enough helium to reduce the weight to near zero for anyone interested in adding lights, etc.

The 'sail area' of such a balloon would be so relatively huge that a 'sneeze' would probably blow a Mavic Mini away .

Just as an after thought I googled this and found Helium Balloons Calculator
which seems to suggest that 238 litres of Helium would be required to lift 249g.
A sphere of that volume would have a diameter of 77cm/ 30".
20g of lift would required 19 litres of He.

 

[jedpause]

.. I don't have the eye-watering amount of money it costs to attain an A2 CofC certificate currently; ...

What prices are you seeing? I see a few still at £75 from reputable training partners... and it lasts 5 years

...and the rules that apply by day, are the same as the night, you don't need any extra certification to fly at night, if you are authorised to fly at a location by day...i.e.
Sub 250g MTOM you can fly at night in recreational/commercial/recreational etc. areas and close to people*
Over 250g in those locations you will need your A2 CofC
And above applies regardless if Recreational or Commercial, but if you fly Commercial then you need Insurance for your operation (day or night)
*If putting strobes on puts you over 250g, then you'll need A2 CofC

 

[Olwyn]

What prices are you seeing? I see a few still at £75 from reputable training partners... and it lasts 5 years

The majority I've seen are at £200+; would you mind mentioning which training partners these are please? I think I'm looking in the wrong place.

It seems a little weird there's no official statement saying 'you must have strobes on at night-time'; granted its common sense, but the wording implies there's no need to attach extra lighting for visibility. Maybe I'm reading incorrectly though.

16:10 Edit: Never mind - I've actually found a few that are reasonably priced, I was definitely looking in the wrong places.

 

[Cymru]

No night flying were the old drone laws that went out in 2021.
Since then there is no restriction provided VLOS is maintained.

As for attaching strobes - remember the rules about third party or unapproved modifications and the effect that has on the category that drone fits into regarding flight restrictions.
Your "close to people" 250g drone could become a "150m from anything" by attaching strobes. That and maybe just flat out illegal if its not manufacturer approved. (Certainly A3).

But you're perfectly allowed to fly a stock drone at night providing VLOS is maintained.