A few questions from a beginner

[fablau]

Hello everyone,
I just got my Mavic 2 Pro after many years of waiting, but as always, despite I made my research for the past year or so about FAA regulations and such, it is only when you get the drone in your hands that more questions arise for which you have a hard time to find an answer for.

So, here I am, with some very basic (and maybe stupid!) questions for you on this topic.

I live in Orange County, California, in a city named Laguna Niguel. On most drone maps, it looks like I can freely fly my drone in my area since the closest airport is about 21 miles from me (John Wayne Airport), but looking at the "more official" map provided inside the B4UFLY app, it looks like my area is restricted because of a nearby heliport (less than 5 miles away).

So, here are my questions:

1. Is a "heliport" considered like an "airport", therefore following the same exact rules?

2. When you are in a restricted area, such as within 5 miles from an airport, is there a "max altitude" where you are not required to ask permission to fly such as, for example, 30 feet? To give you a more practical example, if I use my drone in tracking mode while I am walking on a trail within 5 miles from an airport, do I still need permission for that? And if not, what's the max altitude I can fly before I must ask permission for? I know that FAA doesn't specify any altitude limit or max, they just state "you need to ask permission", and that's it. But it sounds absurd to me that I'd need to ask permission to fly a drone at less than 40-30 feet.

I thank in advance anyone that can help me to understand how to behave in the above circumstances.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[msinger]

Are you flying under Part 107 rules (with a remote pilot license) or under hobbyist rules?

 

[Thomas B]

First, Welcome to the forum!

If you are flying as a hobbyist without part 107 you are currently very limited. The regs say FAA controls all airspace above the dirt you walk on. I know it sounds onerous, but that’s the law. Currently, your largely confined to American Academy of Model Aeronautics fields. These and membership info/benefits (such as free insurance/ indemnification can be found here:

Academy of Model Aeronautics

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a nonprofit community of enthusiasts who come together to celebrate model aviation.

www.modelaircraft.org

Regardless, not all areas have the 400’ ceiling, some are less... the app should tell you. B4UFly is several years old and being reworked.
Most of your questions can be answered through the FAA approved apps. I use AirMap personally, others have their preferences. Here’s the page:

UAS Data Exchange (LAANC)

www.faa.gov

If you are flying as a hobbyist AirMap will tell you the rules after signing up. It’s free. It has been discovered that it does not differentiate limited hours of airport operations.
Hope this helps.

 

[dylanthecat]

You are not severely limited if flying recreationally. You can fly anywhere in uncontrolled airspace. There is no more 5 mile from an airport rule. Stay below 400 feet in class G space and your are fine. Most airspace is class G.

 

[Thomas B]

Here’s some history from another thread. The text in the link is not what you will see at the URL.

FAA Section 349, Recreational Operations ~ The bits & pieces

Bravely spoken. You don’t know me, so until you do don’t throw false courage around. I’m all for remaining law-abiding, but government over-reach is killing this hobby. I couldn't agree more. I get sick of the guys telling me about following laws then they go and fly at 1000 feet well out of...

mavicpilots.com

 

[FormerMember07122019_2]

I just took a quick look at Laguna Niguel and it looks very wide open. I would recommend getting a VFR sectional chart as it shows all the airspace designations. Takes a bit of studying but not too bad if you just look at airspace classification information. The second link is for the airspace map, much easier to decipher.

VFR Raster Charts

U.S. Air Space Map | Know Before You Fly

 

[FormerMember07122019_2]

First, Welcome to the forum!

If you are flying as a hobbyist without part 107 you are currently very limited. The regs say FAA controls all airspace above the dirt you walk on. I know it sounds onerous, but that’s the law. Currently, your largely confined to American Academy of Model Aeronautics fields. These and membership info/benefits (such as free insurance/ indemnification can be found here:

Academy of Model Aeronautics

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is a nonprofit community of enthusiasts who come together to celebrate model aviation.

www.modelaircraft.org

Regardless, not all areas have the 400’ ceiling, some are less... the app should tell you. B4UFly is several years old and being reworked.
Most of your questions can be answered through the FAA approved apps. I use AirMap personally, others have their preferences. Here’s the page:

UAS Data Exchange (LAANC)

www.faa.gov

If you are flying as a hobbyist AirMap will tell you the rules after signing up. It’s free. It has been discovered that it does not differentiate limited hours of airport operations.
Hope this helps.

Hi Thomas,

Why do you say his options are limited. It looks pretty wide open to me. What do you know that I don’t?

Ken

 

[dwolfe002]

I would say to check it on the DJI GO 4 app. It won't let you take off if in restricted airspace without applying for an approval at DJI flysafe. Of course you also need to contact the helipad to let them know you are flying. I'm fairly new but that is what I had to do. The more experienced can probably give you more details.

 

[fablau]

Thank you guys for your replies and for welcoming me here.

Yes, I plan flying under hobbyist rules.

Ok, so, please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the B4UFly app is old, so I can disregard it. That's actually the only map which gave me the heliport limitation, even though I know there are actually heliports in that same exact location, but I see @dylanthecat above wrote that the 5 mile rule no longer apply. Is that correct? Can everybody confirm me that?

Also, can I really rely on just the provided DJI maps and the fact, as @dwolfe002 mentioned, that the drone wouldn't even take off if I am in a restricted area?

I just want to be safe and fly legally without any possible issues.

Thank you again.

 

[AMann]

Hi Thomas,

Why do you say his options are limited. It looks pretty wide open to me. What do you know that I don’t?

Ken

Laguna Niguel is inside Class E starting at 700’ above the surface, but its near three heliports.

 

[FormerMember07122019_2]

View attachment 74392
Laguna Niguel is inside Class E starting at 700’ above the surface, but its near three heliports.

I did not look at the sectional but he is still pretty free and clear up to 400ft. I can’t see the elevations but even the the top two tiers of class C from Santa Ana are probably above 400ft as well.

What am I missing?

 

[msinger]

I see @@dylanthecat above wrote that the 5 mile rule no longer apply. Is that correct? Can everybody confirm me that?

There is no 5 mile rule. You can find a complete list of current hobbyist rules in this thread:

Overview of current hobbyist FAA rules (updated 7/23/19)

As of 5/17/19, here's a complete list of rules hobbyists must follow when flying outdoors in the US: Register your drone with the FAA Mark your registration number on the exterior of the drone (decals available here) Fly a drone under 55 lbs Fly only for hobby or recreation Follow the safety...

mavicpilots.com

 

[kensteele]

You can fly anywhere in uncontrolled airspace.

there are still state and local laws to deal with.

There is no more 5 mile from an airport rule.

until laanc is available for hobbyists, can't go anywhere near most airports (except for the tiny ones).

Most airspace is class G.

perhaps but that doesn't mean much when no one lives where you are talking about and all around you is something less than class G. finding clear air between 5th street and 9th avenue doesn't really help.

flying a drone is not just a matter of being able to drive until you find uncontrolled airspace; anyone with a car can do that. people want to fly their drone in interesting places and nearby locations and mix it up. some hobbyists are finding that hard to do at this time.

 

[fablau]

There is no 5 mile rule. You can find a complete list of current hobbyist rules in this thread:

Overview of current hobbyist FAA rules (updated 7/23/19)

As of 5/17/19, here's a complete list of rules hobbyists must follow when flying outdoors in the US: Register your drone with the FAA Mark your registration number on the exterior of the drone (decals available here) Fly a drone under 55 lbs Fly only for hobby or recreation Follow the safety...

mavicpilots.com

Thank you for the link, that's great information.

So, from I see, I am actually in a controlled space because of nearby heliports (class E?), so I should ask for authorization, right? Is that correct?

Thanks again.

 

[msinger]

So, from I see, I am actually in a controlled space because of nearby heliports (class E?), so I should ask for authorization, right? Is that correct?

If you are really in Class E airspace, then you cannot fly there until LAANC is available to obtain FAA authorization.

 

[kadras]

Thank you for the link, that's great information.

So, from I see, I am actually in a controlled space because of nearby heliports (class E?), so I should ask for authorization, right? Is that correct?

Thanks again.

The presence of the heliports doesn't create controlled airspace.
There is no request for authorization under the new hobbyist recreational rule. To fly in controlled airspace (B, C, D, E) you have to use LAANC which isn't available to recreational pilots yet. But you don't need to fly in controlled airspace to fly in Laguna Niguel, see below.
In answer to one of your original questions the FAA includes heliport in the definition of airport.
Remember to register your Mavic 2 Pro with the FAA before flying.

The magenta tinted line indicates the edge of Class E with a floor of 700 ft AGL. Under that is Class G airspace. Northern Laguna Niguel is in Class G airspace under the Class E and the airspace south of that magenta border is Class G. There is even Class G under John Wayne's Class C. So unless there are local laws defining where you can't take off or land, Laguna Niguel is in Class G airspace and OK for you to fly there as a recreational flier. Keep in mind though, that there could be helos in the Class G airspace. And avoid Camp Pendleton's restricted airspace (blue hashed lines) and the wilderness area to the east outlined with blue dots. There are also some state parks along the coast which aren't shown, they may have restrictions.

 

[kensteele]

Thank you for the link, that's great information.

So, from I see, I am actually in a controlled space because of nearby heliports (class E?), so I should ask for authorization, right? Is that correct?

Thanks again.

as a hobbyist, you cannot "ask" for authorization any longer. telephone requests or any other non-approved requests are no longer a valid method. there is only one way to gain authorization and it's thru a system called LAANC and currently it is unavailable to you and I. you cannot lawfully fly in class E airspace today. the 5-foot rule is still in effect which means you are not even allowed to take off 5-foot from the ground without faa authorization while you are in anything other than class G.

 

[kensteele]

Remember to register your Mavic 2 Pro with the FAA before flying.

my m2z is not registered with the faa and i fly all the time. what am i missing? when laanc goes into effect for hobbyist, will we be required to register our equipment?

 

[Keule]

will we be required to register our equipment?

You must register your drone according to the rules you follow when you fly.

How to Register Your Drone

www.faa.gov

 

[Thomas B]

my m2z is not registered with the faa and i fly all the time. what am i missing? when laanc goes into effect for hobbyist, will we be required to register our equipment?

As @Keule noted above, you are required to be registered before you can legally fly. FAA will issue you a number. I think it’s about $5 and the sends your number by email. This number must be legibly displayed on the exterior of your drone.
The rules may become more stringent before long as the new law is put into effect.

Use the link provided in the post above.