Another case of poorly imposed regulations

[SmilingOgre]

Doing the video for my granddaughter's wedding next year in the mountains of Colorado. The venue is adjacent to the local police station and the city runs the venue. My granddaughter asked for some drone footage in the video. I contacted the coordinator via email with my intentions as a curtesy and got this really poor response. "Regarding flying a drone—we do not own the air space above our building and are very near Crested Butte Mountain Resort (CBMR). You will have to do your own research about the area and where you are allowed to fly the drone, but most likely will require a permit." I checked it out on airmap and it is all clear for takeoff, no restrictions. I have no need to be above CBMR and don't mind honoring their wishes. I will not be taking off or landing from CBMR land. I'm getting a strong sense that this is a tactic to put me off and not have a drone flying. That's fine. I can get establishing shots from anywhere else in the mountains but the gaming is a shame.

 

[JimWest]

Doing the video for my granddaughter's wedding next year in the mountains of Colorado. The venue is adjacent to the local police station and the city runs the venue. My granddaughter asked for some drone footage in the video. I contacted the coordinator via email with my intentions as a curtesy and got this really poor response. "Regarding flying a drone—we do not own the air space above our building and are very near Crested Butte Mountain Resort (CBMR). You will have to do your own research about the area and where you are allowed to fly the drone, but most likely will require a permit." I checked it out on airmap and it is all clear for takeoff, no restrictions. I have no need to be above CBMR and don't mind honoring their wishes. I will not be taking off or landing from CBMR land. I'm getting a strong sense that this is a tactic to put me off and not have a drone flying. That's fine. I can get establishing shots from anywhere else in the mountains but the gaming is a shame.

I'd count it as positive that they acknowledge that they don't own the airspace above their building. They gave you no restrictions, it seems, except "do your own research." If it were me, I'd say, "thank you."

 

[FLDave]

I think it was a very good and appropriate response. Basically, it shows that the city/police department are current on regulations stating that they don't manage the airspace and then giving you a suggestion that you manage your own flight safety as they don't have the authority to grant permission to fly in the local airspace.
It was a perfect response by a person who really understands the situation and legal issues.

 

[slup]

...got this really poor response.

"Regarding flying a drone—we do not own the air space above our building and are very near Crested Butte Mountain Resort (CBMR). You will have to do your own research about the area and where you are allowed to fly the drone, but most likely will require a permit."

Don't really see the "poor" in this ... I interpret it like, they answered you regarding their own possible regulations, warned you about CBMR which might have another view of droning & left it to you to check the Air space regulations.

The only thing they could have changed to sound somewhat friendlier is changing the "...most likely will require" to "... may require"

 

[SmilingOgre]

I think it was a very good and appropriate response. Basically, it shows that the city/police department are current on regulations stating that they don't manage the airspace and then giving you a suggestion that you manage your own flight safety as they don't have the authority to grant permission to fly in the local airspace.
It was a perfect response by a person who really understands the situation and legal issues.

That could be. I am suspicious of law enforcement. I hope you are correct. I did write her back indicating me research results and intent on flying unless "she" or local law enforcement would prefer I did not launch or land from the wedding site. I'm not going to press the issue beyond that as I don't want anything to sour the event.

 

[FLDave]

There is no issue. The city/police made it very clear that they have no restrictions/control over the local airspace.
Flying over people at a wedding venue on the other hand would be a serious matter.

 

[SmilingOgre]

There is no issue. The city/police made it very clear that they have no restrictions/control over the local airspace.
Flying over people at a wedding venue on the other hand would be a serious matter.

Thank you for that. No, we are not flying over people, lol. Again, these are establishing shots i.e. the beautiful setting of mountains where the wedding will be taking place. I don't think anyone wants a drone buzzing around during the wedding, lol.

 

[Vic Moss]

Doing the video for my granddaughter's wedding next year in the mountains of Colorado. The venue is adjacent to the local police station and the city runs the venue. My granddaughter asked for some drone footage in the video. I contacted the coordinator via email with my intentions as a curtesy and got this really poor response. "Regarding flying a drone—we do not own the air space above our building and are very near Crested Butte Mountain Resort (CBMR). You will have to do your own research about the area and where you are allowed to fly the drone, but most likely will require a permit." I checked it out on airmap and it is all clear for takeoff, no restrictions. I have no need to be above CBMR and don't mind honoring their wishes. I will not be taking off or landing from CBMR land. I'm getting a strong sense that this is a tactic to put me off and not have a drone flying. That's fine. I can get establishing shots from anywhere else in the mountains but the gaming is a shame.

You should see the rules in Telluride. This is nothing.

Telluride Regional Airport says on their site that no drones allowed w/o airport manager permission within 5 miles. It's a Class G airport.

But overall the coordinator was correct in their assessment of the rules.

Also, don't trust AirMap (or any LAANC app) about local rules. They're strictly for airspace.

And in looking at the Crested Butte ordinances, there are no drone regs that I can find.

 

[SmilingOgre]

You should see the rules in Telluride. This is nothing.

Telluride Regional Airport says on their site that no drones allowed w/o airport manager permission within 5 miles. It's a Class G airport.

But overall the coordinator was correct in their assessment of the rules.

Also, don't trust AirMap (or any LAANC app) about local rules. They're strictly for airspace.

And in looking at the Crested Butte ordinances, there are no drone regs that I can find.

Those are my findings. CBMR is similar to Telluride as the have a web blurb that states no drones on the resort. Beyond that it appears to be clear.

 

[Vic Moss]

Those are my findings. CBMR is similar to Telluride as the have a web blurb that states no drones on the resort. Beyond that it appears to be clear.

They can prohibit drone on resort property. At least they understand they don't control the airspace. Telluride's ordinance controls the airspace. Illegally.

 

[SmilingOgre]

They can prohibit drone on resort property. At least they understand they don't control the airspace. Telluride's ordinance controls the airspace. Illegally.

That's where the ambiguity lies. The resort's blurb is vague. They are not clear as to whether they are claiming control over ground or air space. The coordinator I am working with is the communications officer for the local police dept. Her mention of a "permit" rather than "authorization" connotates a body other than the FAA without mention of what the body may be. In a real world situation, if a representative of the resort reports a drone the local police must respond to that complaint. Maybe that response would be iniquitous but I don't even want to deal with that on the wedding day. Beyond the legalities of the scenario, I am asking the communications officer if I can do this without encumbrance. I want this to be totally non-confrontational. As I stated earlier, I will probably go up into the mountains somewhere else and get my shots. I will have a couple of days out there before the wedding to do so.

 

[vindibona1]

That's where the ambiguity lies. The resort's blurb is vague. They are not clear as to whether they are claiming control over ground or air space. The coordinator I am working with is the communications officer for the local police dept. Her mention of a "permit" rather than "authorization" connotates a body other than the FAA without mention of what the body may be. In a real world situation, if a representative of the resort reports a drone the local police must respond to that complaint. Maybe that response would be iniquitous but I don't even want to deal with that on the wedding day. Beyond the legalities of the scenario, I am asking the communications officer if I can do this without encumbrance. I want this to be totally non-confrontational. As I stated earlier, I will probably go up into the mountains somewhere else and get my shots. I will have a couple of days out there before the wedding to do so.

There seems to be confusion in a situation that apparently has no confusion legally. Governments' ONLY power is the power to say "no". So if they didn't specificy you can't fly in a manner that is readily available to read, then there isn't anything illegal that you intend to do. People don't want to sound stupid by saying "I don't know" so often make stuff up or refer you to some other "authority". The way to combat any confrontation is to do your homework and document as much as you can about the "non-rules" and the correspondence that you've had proving your legitimacy to fly there. PRINT THEM OUT AND CARRY THEM WITH YOU when you fly. As we know, the FAA owns the air space and you are permitted to fly UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED. The biggest restrictions in most areas are the "restrictions" legitimate or not, of where you can launch and land. People either don't know or don't get the message.

I've only had one situation with a security guard at a private venue where I did have clear permission to fly. I had the docs printed and in my back pocket. I was approacehd by a guard while I was flying, and without saying a word, reached into my pocket, handed him the print-outs. He read them, handed them back and exited saying "have a nice day".

 

[SmilingOgre]

There seems to be confusion in a situation that apparently has no confusion legally. Governments' ONLY power is the power to say "no". So if they didn't specificy you can't fly in a manner that is readily available to read, then there isn't anything illegal that you intend to do. People don't want to sound stupid by saying "I don't know" so often make stuff up or refer you to some other "authority". The way to combat any confrontation is to do your homework and document as much as you can about the "non-rules" and the correspondence that you've had proving your legitimacy to fly there. PRINT THEM OUT AND CARRY THEM WITH YOU when you fly. As we know, the FAA owns the air space and you are permitted to fly UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED. The biggest restrictions in most areas are the "restrictions" legitimate or not, of where you can launch and land. People either don't know or don't get the message.

I've only had one situation with a security guard at a private venue where I did have clear permission to fly. I had the docs printed and in my back pocket. I was approacehd by a guard while I was flying, and without saying a word, reached into my pocket, handed him the print-outs. He read them, handed them back and exited saying "have a nice day".

Not going to happen. As long as there is a chance of confrontation I fly somewhere else. I’m not going to play Don Quixote and fight the good fight for droners around the world. I want no local PoPo at the wedding site at any time. Confusion conquered.

 

[Vic Moss]

That's where the ambiguity lies. The resort's blurb is vague. They are not clear as to whether they are claiming control over ground or air space. The coordinator I am working with is the communications officer for the local police dept. Her mention of a "permit" rather than "authorization" connotates a body other than the FAA without mention of what the body may be. In a real world situation, if a representative of the resort reports a drone the local police must respond to that complaint. Maybe that response would be iniquitous but I don't even want to deal with that on the wedding day. Beyond the legalities of the scenario, I am asking the communications officer if I can do this without encumbrance. I want this to be totally non-confrontational. As I stated earlier, I will probably go up into the mountains somewhere else and get my shots. I will have a couple of days out there before the wedding to do so.

Do you have a link to their "blurb"?

 

[SmilingOgre]

Do you have a link to their "blurb"?

No need. Just got a message back from the coordinator/Communications officer. "Sounds good. Sounds like it shouldn’t be a problem then! We just rent the space, so we don’t typically deal with the photographers or videographers of the space.".

The folks that responded earlier in the thread were correct. I was reading too much into this. I will also retract my statement of not flying there. The gig is on!!!

 

[wheelski80]

I'd count it as positive that they acknowledge that they don't own the airspace above their building. They gave you no restrictions, it seems, except "do your own research." If it were me, I'd say, "thank you."

Agree!

 

[vindibona1]

Not going to happen. As long as there is a chance of confrontation I fly somewhere else. I’m not going to play Don Quixote and fight the good fight for droners around the world. I want no local PoPo at the wedding site at any time. Confusion conquered.

Sorry to say, there is ALWAYS a chance of confrontation. Just ask Drone Media Tech who has recorded his infamous interaction with now famed "Birdman". Right now, before implementation of RID folks have to physically see you flying to know to approach you. Come RID it will be open season. Good luck finding that that "somewhere else".

Knowing the REAL rules of where you're going to fly is critical these days, because as I say, much as you try to avoid confrontation, at some point it will find you.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Sorry to say, there is ALWAYS a chance of confrontation. Just ask Drone Media Tech who has recorded his infamous interaction with now famed "Birdman". Right now, before implementation of RID folks have to physically see you flying to know to approach you. Come RID it will be open season. Good luck finding that that "somewhere else".

Knowing the REAL rules of where you're going to fly is critical these days, because as I say, much as you try to avoid confrontation, at some point it will find you.

That's obvious. There's always the chance of some crazed freak expressing it's displeasure with whatever you're doing. I was taking pictures in a park once with a mirrorless and some crazed woman came running up having a fit that I had a camera in the same park as her children while her children were left unsupervised a few hundred feet away. Try vaping sometime. They'll come running out of nowhere to tell you how bad that is. Listen to a scanner at night sometime and listen to the calls come in about ridicules things. "There's a black man walking through my neighborhood right next to my black lives matter sign!!!"

 

[BigAl07]

Ok gang... let's get back on topic here. This thread, although now totally debunked, isn't about all those "other things" and we don't need to go down that road for obvious reasons.

 

[lookout]

There's this frenzy that everytime a guy behind every blade of grass is going to wield a quad and the sky is going to fall.

But I don't know why most localities would even want to bother with something that happens with a toy made in China. Most of them have no idea about that sort of thing. The only toy the Chinese ever played with that got somebody's attention is still in use today.

A guy shows up in a Lamborghini, now that's gonna get some attention. But showing up with a quad. Eh...who cares?