Arrested

[Blaksony]

As you know, I appeared in County Circuit Court on your behalf this morning for the criminal misdemeanor charge of obstructing identification. I am happy to report we were able to convince the State’s Attorney to drop the misdemeanor charge. Your bond will be refunded to you by the Circuit Clerk’s office, unless there is a statutory reason for it to be repurposed. If no statutory reasons apply for repurposing your bond, you should receive the refund in the next several weeks.


I appreciate you letting us handle this matter for you. This is a good result and I hope you are happy with the outcome. Let us know if you need any additional assistance. Thanks.

Jason

JASON W.
Attorney

So the judge thought it was a bad arrest, nothing I could sue for so I get my bond back, pay the drone fine and give the rest to my lawyer. Happy flying.

 

[BD0G]

Fighting the Good Fight!

It can get costly though.

Pleased it worked out for you.

 

[Thomas B]

Likely as good as you could have expected. Do you have a transcript of the ruling (court reporter type)? It could be of importance to others in the future.

 

[Hawkwind]

What is the story?

 

[PureBlue]

What location did this occur?

 

[Maviac]

As you know, I appeared in County Circuit Court on your behalf this morning for the criminal misdemeanor charge of obstructing identification. I am happy to report we were able to convince the State’s Attorney to drop the misdemeanor charge. Your bond will be refunded to you by the Circuit Clerk’s office, unless there is a statutory reason for it to be repurposed. If no statutory reasons apply for repurposing your bond, you should receive the refund in the next several weeks.


I appreciate you letting us handle this matter for you. This is a good result and I hope you are happy with the outcome. Let us know if you need any additional assistance. Thanks.

Jason

JASON W.
Attorney

So the judge thought it was a bad arrest, nothing I could sue for so I get my bond back, pay the drone fine and give the rest to my lawyer. Happy flying.

Great, but I’d like to hear the rest of this story. And what’s the deal with “repurposing” your bond??? I assume it didn’t apply to your case but that sounds like a serious Takings Clause issue. What state is this? If you’re not guilty of anything you should get the whole bond back.

(Also, he should have said “I appreciate YOUR letting us....” but most lawyers don’t understand the genitive case these days).

 

[webvan]

What is the story?

It was a confusing and hard to follow story posted in another thread called "Arrested" (or something like that) a few weeks ago and that appears to have gone missing. The gist was that our friend was told not to fly in an area where he thought he was allowed to fly (and rightly so it seems) and refused to show identification when asked, hence all the costs and aggravation he incurred...

 

[Olav van Gerven]

There is no judgement according to the message of the attorney. The charge(s) was (were) dropped by the SA.

In the US, failing to identify is in many states a secondary charge. The first thing that is requiered is, that there has been a legal arrest for another crime. Then you are requiered to identify. If not arrested, you don't have to identify, although IF you decide to give details, zhey must be correct. The "failing to" charge is often used as a kind of "contempt of cop" charge. They know the charges will get dropped, BUT through the system in the US, it will cost you a lot of time and money.

 

[hockeypop98]

There is no judgement according to the message of the attorney. The charge(s) was (were) dropped by the SA.

In the US, failing to identify is in many states a secondary charge. The first thing that is requiered is, that there has been a legal arrest for another crime. Then you are requiered to identify. If not arrested, you don't have to identify, although IF you decide to give details, zhey must be correct. The "failing to" charge is often used as a kind of "contempt of cop" charge. They know the charges will get dropped, BUT through the system in the US, it will cost you a lot of time and money.

In my state, refusing to identify oneself to a law enforcement officer who is conducting an investigation in good faith (regardless of whether an actual crime has been committed, such as if (s)he were responding to a complaint called in by a third party) you could open yourself up to a misdemeanor charge of Obstructing Official Business, especially if there is an attempt to conceal your identity through a false name. I agree with Mr. Van Gervan that it will at the very least cost you time and money, which to me is avoidable. If you have an issue with being questioned, it's never a bad idea to comply at the time, and file a complaint with the department. In today's world, de-escalation is ever wise, and would lessen the chance of wearing linked bracelets.

I'm not familiar with the original story, but I prefer taking an approach toward people unfamiliar or uncomfortable with drones and their legal use as an ambassador. Winning the hearts and minds through education will ensure our retaining legal use of drones. Confrontation can lead to legislation written to further limit areas where we can enjoy this hobby.

This is my opinion, not meant to be argumentative.

 

[silverdragon]

I read many letters written by lawyers, DA's, judges etc. Due to my profession. Something with the wording I can't get a grasp on. It's definitely not written in a professional manner but then again theres no law stating how a court's ruling letter should be written. Anyhow, I'm glad to hear the ruling swayed your way....now you can buy more drones.....

 

[430Ferrari]

Perhaps next time you’ll cooperate with authorities who have a gun and badge, educate them politely, and avoid the aggravation and costs of an attorney.

You need to “go along to get along” with our public safety officers. Show them respect and you’ll get respect. You might have lost the opportunity for a drone teaching moment by withholding your identity.

I wasn’t there so this is just my opinion of how I would handle a similar situation. To each his own.

 

[Dogbreath]

As you know, I appeared in County Circuit Court on your behalf this morning for the criminal misdemeanor charge of obstructing identification. I am happy to report we were able to convince the State’s Attorney to drop the misdemeanor charge. Your bond will be refunded to you by the Circuit Clerk’s office, unless there is a statutory reason for it to be repurposed. If no statutory reasons apply for repurposing your bond, you should receive the refund in the next several weeks.


I appreciate you letting us handle this matter for you. This is a good result and I hope you are happy with the outcome. Let us know if you need any additional assistance. Thanks.

Jason

JASON W.
Attorney

So the judge thought it was a bad arrest, nothing I could sue for so I get my bond back, pay the drone fine and give the rest to my lawyer. Happy flying.

Hey blaksony, being part of the outrage culture has it’s costs. Simple question: Did you learn anything from this?

 

[DrDrew3]

As you know, I appeared in County Circuit Court on your behalf this morning for the criminal misdemeanor charge of obstructing identification. I am happy to report we were able to convince the State’s Attorney to drop the misdemeanor charge. Your bond will be refunded to you by the Circuit Clerk’s office, unless there is a statutory reason for it to be repurposed. If no statutory reasons apply for repurposing your bond, you should receive the refund in the next several weeks.


I appreciate you letting us handle this matter for you. This is a good result and I hope you are happy with the outcome. Let us know if you need any additional assistance. Thanks.

Jason

JASON W.
Attorney

So the judge thought it was a bad arrest, nothing I could sue for so I get my bond back, pay the drone fine and give the rest to my lawyer. Happy flying.

If faced with a similar situation in the future would you present your ID to the law enforcement agent upon request?

Or would you refuse and go through the court system again?

 

[Olav van Gerven]

I would say, know the law about ID, maybe even have a copy of it in your dronecase, and then decide what to do. An unlawfull arrest (based on refusal to ID if there is no obligation to ID) can get you the equivalent of several drones in the US.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Perhaps next time you’ll cooperate with authorities who have a gun and badge, educate them politely, and avoid the aggravation and costs of an attorney.

You need to “go along to get along” with our public safety officers. Show them respect and you’ll get respect. You might have lost the opportunity for a drone teaching moment by withholding your identity.

I wasn’t there so this is just my opinion of how I would handle a similar situation. To each his own.

Cooperation with the authorities should be a given! As long as the cooperation is within the legal boundaries of the law. For example, in a public area, a member of the LE community cannot just come upon you and demand ID for no other reason then to identify you without cause. If you are not being detained (in almost every state in the USA), you are free to depart at your will. Detainment infers you have A) committed a crime, B) are committing a crime, or C) will be committing a crime. Terry Stop!!! Reasonable Articulated Suspicion (RAS) is required for detainment, not just a “show me ID because I’m a cop”. To blatantly go along is to submit to unlawful detainment. There are, unfortunately, many in the LE community that do need further education on public relations. Should anyone reading this, I encourage you that you should be fully aware of the laws concerning STOP and ID within your state!

I am not saying you are wrong on what you say, but rather there is an alternative.

 

[AMann]

Now that the FAA has deemed it a requirement to show your drone registration to FAA and law enforcement personnel when asked, having possession of and showing your proof of drone registration is a part of the requirements for all of us who want to legally fly in the NAS.

Of course, you could state that you are a “sovereign citizen” and just stare blankly at anyone who asks

 

[theDRONEranger]

Now that the FAA has deemed it a requirement to show your drone registration to FAA and law enforcement personnel when asked, having possession of and showing your proof of drone registration is a part of the requirements for all of us who want to legally fly in the NAS.

Of course, you could state that you are a “sovereign citizen” and just stare blankly at anyone who asks

This is quite true with the new changes, but the text I posted was a generalized nonspecific. Thank you for reminding us of the FAA requirements. I did clearly forget that.
PS. . . This coming from a person who spent 44 years in the law enforcing field.

Sovereign citizen . . . “I am not driving, I am traveling!” Yeah, sure! Reminds me of the time I visited the “Bishop’s Castle” in Colorado. Free to visit and donations accepted. I told Bishop I would like to donate, but all I had was the standard US Treasury Notes (money), he was quick to reply with, “l’ll trade it for something I can use”. So much for not believing in the US dollar!!!

 

[Aussie Oldtimer]

What is the difference between a lawyer, solicitor and an attorney?

Are you required to identify yourself using some form of ID or can it just be verbal? If some physical form of ID, are you required to carry ID at all times? (so much for the land of the free)

 

[Olav van Gerven]

As far as I have learned:
The solicitor is someone who can advise you but will not represent you at court. In criminal cases they seem to have a more advising position, not the representing.
The lawyer also advising but can upto a certain level represent you in court
The attorney is the Big One: They are the ones that you see next to you if you appear in court.

And an attorney who represents himself in court has a fool as client.

Identification:
In the US, it depends from state to state what is requiered to identify.
In most European countries, the only way to propper identify is with a state-issued ID-card or pasport. If we look at Germany, a driverslicense is not considered to be a valid ID, though often it is accepted as such. In Europe, upon request, you have to show a valid ID, the officer does not have to have a suspicion of you commiting a crime or being involved in one. "Failure to ID" is here (and in the Netherlands) not a secondary charge.

(EDIT: For the US, if you fly a drone, regardless of what your statues in regard to ID says, the FAA requieres you to present the registration upon request.)

 

[rbhamilton]

Have you heard about “the talk” that black fathers have with sons? Not the birds and bees talk. The talk about surviving an encounter with cops. It’s time for drone owners to get a serious talk. We are far less likely to be shot but if you don’t cooperate with cops and do exactly what they say - especially when they are in the wrong - you are going to have a bad day. You can NEVER win a fight with a cop in the field. The time for that comes later - when you are safe at home surrounded by lawyers.