Can you help me force Port Canaveral Florida to allow drones as they currently violate Florida laws

[TomKennelly]

I started a GoFundMe, [Link removed by ADMIN due to Community Guideline #11]

to obtain funding to sue Port Canaveral (CPA) to follow Florida Statute 330.41 which prohibits political subdivisions, like CPA, from enacting their own drone rules.

Florida Statue 330.41 3(b) vests drone regulation in the state and not political subdivisions (e.g. cities, counties, ports). CPA has stubbornly refused to follow the law claiming the Port is private property. According to Florida Statute 315.11 the Port is public property but the Port won't hear of it even though the Port used this statute in a lawsuit in the 1990's.

So, help me make a government entity follow the law and removes its rules against flying drones in the Port.

Thanks for reading.

 

[spsphotos]

Can you be more specific on the rules that they put in place? Are they prohibiting taking off and landing? Or are they trying to prohibit over-flight? Two very different things.

 

[spsphotos]

This the rule you have issues with? Seems to me you just can't launch from their property. Nothing illegal about that. They do give you a form to fill out for permission. I don't think you are going to find a ton of support for your cause unless you get some people with deep pockets. Personally, I think the fact that the port also acts as a naval base and support base for NASA might play a role in this.

CANAVERAL PORT AUTHORITY
TARIFF NO. 16 SECTION 200, RULE 265-
FILMING, PHOTOGRAPHY AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS


No person, without prior authorization from the Canaveral Port Authority may operate, control, fly, assist or permit the operation or control of any vehicle, vessel, or aircraft, or similar objects, on any CPA property. Requests for authorization shall be made to CPA Public Safety & Security 48 hours in advance of the intended start of any unmanned system operation. Drone photography is prohibited within 24 hours of any scheduled launch from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station and Kennedy Space Center. Persons found in violation of this Rule may be subject to trespass from CPA property.

 

[BigAl07]

The actual rule is a LAND USE issue not an FAA/Florida issue. Here it is from their website directly(italics and bold added by ME for clarity):

.......No person, without prior authorization from the Canaveral Port Authority may operate, control, fly, assist or permit the operation or control of any vehicle, vessel, or aircraft, or similar objects, on any CPA property.......

An owner, manager, or designated entity can and should be able to control what happens on the property. No different than you being able to dictate what happens on your property.

When you add in the fact that a large portion of that area is Space Force property it makes it even more logical to not allow random UAS operations. Now add in it's not an all-out BAN but they are requiring prior approval unless close to LAUNCH time. Here's the link:

Port Canaveral

www.portcanaveral.com

(exert from the page above)

CANAVERAL PORT AUTHORITY
TARIFF NO. 16 SECTION 200, RULE 265-
FILMING, PHOTOGRAPHY AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS


No person, without prior authorization from the Canaveral Port Authority may operate, control, fly, assist or permit the operation or control of any vehicle, vessel, or aircraft, or similar objects, on any CPA property. Requests for authorization shall be made to CPA Public Safety & Security 48 hours in advance of the intended start of any unmanned system operation. Drone photography is prohibited within 24 hours of any scheduled launch from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station and Kennedy Space Center. Persons found in violation of this Rule may be subject to trespass from CPA property.

PORT CANAVERAL UAS DRONE REQUEST ONLINE REQUEST FORM
(ALL fields must be filled and forms/photos attached to submit request)

 

[TomKennelly]

Can you be more specific on the rules that they put in place? Are they prohibiting taking off and landing? Or are they trying to prohibit over-flight? Two very different things.

RULE 577: UNMANNED SYSTEMS (DRONES) Operation or control, or assisting or permitting the operation or control, of any unmanned system upon lands owned by the Canaveral Port Authority is prohibited without prior authorization from CPA. Unmanned systems include aircraft or watercraft drones, including communication links and the components used to control them. Requests for authorizations must be made to the CPA Public Safety and Security Department at least 48 hours in advance of the intended operation. Persons found in violation of this rule may be subject to trespass from CPA property.

 

[TomKennelly]

The actual rule is a LAND USE issue not an FAA/Florida issue. Here it is from their website directly(italics and bold added by ME for clarity):

.......No person, without prior authorization from the Canaveral Port Authority may operate, control, fly, assist or permit the operation or control of any vehicle, vessel, or aircraft, or similar objects, on any CPA property.......

An owner, manager, or designated entity can and should be able to control what happens on the property. No different than you being able to dictate what happens on your property.

When you add in the fact that a large portion of that area is Space Force property it makes it even more logical to not allow random UAS operations. Now add in it's not an all-out BAN but they are requiring prior approval unless close to LAUNCH time. Here's the link:

Port Canaveral

www.portcanaveral.com

(exert from the page above)

CANAVERAL PORT AUTHORITY
TARIFF NO. 16 SECTION 200, RULE 265-
FILMING, PHOTOGRAPHY AND UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS


No person, without prior authorization from the Canaveral Port Authority may operate, control, fly, assist or permit the operation or control of any vehicle, vessel, or aircraft, or similar objects, on any CPA property. Requests for authorization shall be made to CPA Public Safety & Security 48 hours in advance of the intended start of any unmanned system operation. Drone photography is prohibited within 24 hours of any scheduled launch from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station and Kennedy Space Center. Persons found in violation of this Rule may be subject to trespass from CPA property.

PORT CANAVERAL UAS DRONE REQUEST ONLINE REQUEST FORM
(ALL fields must be filled and forms/photos attached to submit request)

If you take a look at F.S. 330.41 it prohibits political subdivisions from creating rules against drone flights. Port Canaveral is a political subdivision and cannot prohibit a drone operator from controlling their drone, landing, or taking off. Port Canaveral is public property.

 

[BigAl07]

If you take a look at F.S. 330.41 it prohibits political subdivisions from creating rules against drone flights. Port Canaveral is a political subdivision and cannot prohibit a drone operator from controlling their drone, landing, or taking off. Port Canaveral is public property.

You do realize you're talking about two totally different things.

Land Use and Over Flight are NOT the same. A land owner/manager should have every right to say what happens on that land. Just like

The Florida statute states the entity can't make rules about Drone Flight which is based on FAA Authority but that's different in this case because they aren't controlling the FLIGHT but what you do from their property. Just like they could (I have no idea if they do or not) say you can't ride a horse.... an ATV.... shoot a firearm.... they should be allowed to say what you can and can NOT do on the property they manage (public or otherwise).

I'm not saying don't try and get it changed but you're probably barking up the wrong tree and it's only going to cost you time and other people's money. You have a Fiduciary Duty to let those know who might be contributing the difference in those terms.

 

[AZDave]

Somehow I can't get the image of windmills out of my head here ....

 

[TomKennelly]

You do realize you're talking about two totally different things.

Land Use and Over Flight are NOT the same. A land owner/manager should have every right to say what happens on that land. Just like

The Florida statute states the entity can't make rules about Drone Flight which is based on FAA Authority but that's different in this case because they aren't controlling the FLIGHT but what you do from their property. Just like they could (I have no idea if they do or not) say you can't ride a horse.... an ATV.... shoot a firearm.... they should be allowed to say what you can and can NOT do on the property they manage (public or otherwise).

I'm not saying don't try and get it changed but you're probably barking up the wrong tree and it's only going to cost you time and other people's money. You have a Fiduciary Duty to let those know who might be contributing the difference in those terms.

You realize the Port is Public property, right? We are not talking about private property rights.

 

[BigAl07]

You realize the Port is Public property, right? We are not talking about private property rights.

Do you get Free Range to do whatever you want on other public property? NEGATIVE Ghost Rider!! Go to any public park/facility and look at the RULES of the area when you first enter.... I refer back to my statement about ATV/Horse/Firearm. Public property does not mean NO RULES!!

At ANY point did I mention Private Property? NEGATIVE Ghost Rider. I even cited the very page where all of this has stemmed from and I fully understand it's Public Property. I stand by my words and I think you're misleading anyone who contributes to your GoFundMe whole heartedly.

 

[BigAl07]

If you take a look at F.S. 330.41 it prohibits political subdivisions from creating rules against drone flights. Port Canaveral is a political subdivision and cannot prohibit a drone operator from controlling their drone, landing, or taking off. Port Canaveral is public property.

I suggest this... start a petition in the local community to allow the Community to make the decision. Petition the people to speak out in defense of allowing UAS Operations from the CPA. Put it to the public and see what they wish to be allowed or not. I'm pretty sure you'll be sorely shocked at the amount of public opposition you'll get for your mission.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Yes, this situation is very similar to other public land assets such as National Parks, public parks in cities / towns controlled by ‘city of’ authorities, etc.
Obviously overflight is not realistic from outside the CPA due to VLOS rules ?

 

[TomKennelly]

Yes, this situation is very similar to other public land assets such as National Parks, public parks in cities / towns controlled by ‘city of’ authorities, etc.
Obviously overflight is not realistic from outside the CPA due to VLOS rules ?

You are correct.

 

[TomKennelly]

I suggest this... start a petition in the local community to allow the Community to make the decision. Petition the people to speak out in defense of allowing UAS Operations from the CPA. Put it to the public and see what they wish to be allowed or not. I'm pretty sure you'll be sorely shocked at the amount of public opposition you'll get for your mission.

Why go the route of a petition when Port Canaveral is in violation of Florida state law? The Port considers themselves private property, even though by statute they are public property, so they are the 900 pound guerrilla. In other words, they don't take advice but give advice.

My plan was to get to a motion for declaratory judgement which will allow a judge to rule whether the state law applies to the Port. In other words, not a big lawsuit for damages but a civil procedure approach that does NOT award damages but provides a judgement.

 

[TomKennelly]

I started a GoFundMe, [Link removed by ADMIN due to Community Guideline #11]

to obtain funding to sue Port Canaveral (CPA) to follow Florida Statute 330.41 which prohibits political subdivisions, like CPA, from enacting their own drone rules.

Florida Statue 330.41 3(b) vests drone regulation in the state and not political subdivisions (e.g. cities, counties, ports). CPA has stubbornly refused to follow the law claiming the Port is private property. According to Florida Statute 315.11 the Port is public property but the Port won't hear of it even though the Port used this statute in a lawsuit in the 1990's.

So, help me make a government entity follow the law and removes its rules against flying drones in the Port.

Thanks for reading.

Now that we have had a robust discussion on my motives and approach can you reinstate the GoFundMe link.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

I live in Cocoa Beach and have been to the Port on numerous occasions. According to AirMap the area from 528 north and east of A1A is a no fly zone with no authorization to fly starting at the surface.

 

[sancap]

You realize the Port is Public property, right? We are not talking about private property rights.

Have you applied using the online form?

 

[BigAl07]

Now that we have had a robust discussion on my motives and approach can you reinstate the GoFundMe link.

Afraid not.

I live in Cocoa Beach and have been to the Port on numerous occasions. According to AirMap the area from 528 north and east of A1A is a no fly zone with no authorization to fly starting at the surface.

Wow... I hadn't even looked at the Altitude grids for that area and that's a LOT of red. . . .

@TomKennelly have you looked at the FAA UAS Map for that area? It's the red circle with all the (0) squared encompassing the black pin I placed. That's where you're wanting to fly.

 

[DoomMeister]

Even if you got this changed to your liking, there is very little area where you would legally be able to fly a drone as a recreational pilot. Even as a 107 pilot you would have to have a job scheduled and have to apply for clearance through the FAA DroneZone. With two Space Force Bases with 0 altitude grids getting clearance would take a lot of circus dog training with all the hoops you would be jumping through.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

Even if you got this changed to your liking, there is very little area where you would legally be able to fly a drone as a recreational pilot. Even as a 107 pilot you would have to have a job scheduled and have to apply for clearance through the FAA DroneZone. With two Space Force Bases with 0 altitude grids getting clearance would take a lot of circus dog training with all the hoops you would be jumping through.

Fortunately there is a gap between Patrick Spaceforce Base and Cape Canaveral where you can fly.