Confusing drone laws in Germany

[Deleted member 65595]

A while back I posted a video of Munich, and I got some feedback regarding the lawfulness of my drone shots.

At the time of flight, I was pretty sure everything I did was legal, but I was later notified that flying near the castle should be avoided. The reason I thought it was legal, was because I checked with the DFS Drohnen app before every flight. It is an app made by the German authorities, and I trusted it fully. Now, I am not so sure.

Would be interested to hear from locals or anyone else who has been to Germany. Here is the video, for reference:

 

[Olav van Gerven]

I just go through the complete video:

# At 1:55, you fly above the Autobahn, no go
# At 2:05, you have people, filming them without prior permission is in violation of privacy laws (european)
# At 2:16, you fly over closed residantial area, no go
# The people featured at 2:28 seem to be part of the crew, assumed that they have agreed to the publication (and no objection does not mean to agree!), it is okay
# At 2:58, identical to 2:05
# At 3:09, a car turns into the scene. The licenseplate could be recognized, so violation of privacy unless...
# At the end, again over residential areas

Now I know, most people will not object if they walk through your scene and get filmed, but the US idea of "no privacy in public" is not accepted in Germany. Now one could (should) argue, that there is a journalistic interest in the footage of the people, so therefor it is legal. Problem is, as long as you are not a registered journalist, this is not going to work. The widely accepted "independent journalist" as used i.e. the 1st amendment audits in the US is not transferable to Germany.

I don't know the app you mention, but knowing the rules here, I assume that they only show ADDITIONAL Limits to what is considered to be known to everybody. Therefore, yes, the video is showing many violations of which the majority could be argued against. Not arguable are the drone violations. There is clear legislation about that.

If you have any questions about the exact rules, you might contact the "DMFV", which is a club for rc-controled aircraft pilots.

(And I don't even check now if you had a valid liability insurance and if the drone was over 2 kg a licence to operate)

 

[hippa]

Very confusing.

I live in the same EU but different country (Finland) and here it is totally ok if random people get accidentally filmed at all open-access places as streets, parks, in trains etc. No permission is needed.

Just like taking a normal photos at tourist attractions, it is impossible to take a photo without having some extra people at the backround.

Same thing about some random vehicle registration plates, no need to blurr them.

Of course filming homes through windows or filming private back yards etc is NOT allowed at all.

BTW 1:55 time, in my opinion, drone seems not to be over the autobahn, maybe slightly too close but not over it. Camera seems to be lifted from its vertical position all the time.

 

[Olav van Gerven]

The european legislation concerning privacy is clear and should also be put into legislation in Finland. This means that there has to be a valid reason to proces personal data. Pictures are considered to be personal data, since you can identify who is pictured.

Now, in Finland as in Sweden, the privacylaws are relativly relaxed. It ist just a few years ago since in Sweden it officially became unlawfull to film in a public accesable dressingroom or bathroom without prior consent. Since then it became unlawfull to get images of people in place here they obviously would expect privacy.

The thing is, that as long as no one starts a claim, there will not be a proces and without a proces, no conviction. People in Scandinavia mostly see things a bit more relaxed. I have never had people freaking because I was taking pictures or video in Sweden, different to Germany and the Netherlands.

 

[hippa]

Yep, in Finland of course it is forbidden to film in dressing rooms or toilets too.

But any person walking in the street is not considered as "personal data."

Very interesting!

Back to topic: Btw where can I buy the liability insurance needed for German leisure drone operations? I will be visiting Germany in some near future, with or without my loved Mavic Air.

 

[Deleted member 65595]

Thanks, I generally agree with everything you say. Common sense is more important than rules in some situations.
Also, great catch on the autobahn shot! It was flown from the outskirts of a park, I was never actually over the autobahn, although it seemed so from the drone's point of view

Very confusing.

I live in the same EU but different country (Finland) and here it is totally ok if random people get accidentally filmed at all open-access places as streets, parks, in trains etc. No permission is needed.

Just like taking a normal photos at tourist attractions, it is impossible to take a photo without having some extra people at the backround.

Same thing about some random vehicle registration plates, no need to blurr them.

Of course filming homes through windows or filming private back yards etc is NOT allowed at all.

BTW 1:55 time, in my opinion, drone seems not to be over the autobahn, maybe slightly too close but not over it. Camera seems to be lifted from its vertical position all the time.

 

[Deleted member 65595]

Sorry, didn't see this comment until now. I am not sure actually, only thing I know is that insurance companies (in Norway at least) are very hesitant to insure drones

Yep, in Finland of course it is forbidden to film in dressing rooms or toilets too.

But any person walking in the street is not considered as "personal data."

Very interesting!

Back to topic: Btw where can I buy the liability insurance needed for German leisure drone operations? I will be visiting Germany in some near future, with or without my loved Mavic Air.

 

[gnirtS]

UK law is fairly simple and most european countries im aware of (except maybe Germany!) follow the same.
There is no right to privacy regarding a public place.

The law only comes in for areas where they can reasonably expect privacy. For example a person walking in a public park cant argue that. A person in a garden with 10ft walls blocking it off can be argued can expect it.

Even the utterly horrific ECHR article 8 just states " might reasonably expect to be private " which might be met before it kicks in.

So for non commercial photography of public places, in the UK and several other countries im aware of is no issue at all (provided other aviation laws are met).

 

[Olav van Gerven]

UK law is fairly simple and most european countries im aware of (except maybe Germany!) follow the same.
There is no right to privacy regarding a public place.

The law only comes in for areas where they can reasonably expect privacy. For example a person walking in a public park cant argue that. A person in a garden with 10ft walls blocking it off can be argued can expect it.

Even the utterly horrific ECHR article 8 just states " might reasonably expect to be private " which might be met before it kicks in.

So for non commercial photography of public places, in the UK and several other countries im aware of is no issue at all (provided other aviation laws are met).

The thing they might catch you on is not the privacy but the European Data Prtection Act in the latest version. In there, pictures are considered to be personal data sicne they can be followed back to the person on the picture. If looked for a charge, at the end of the day, the argument that is going to be used is, that the storage and processing of this piece of personal data has been done without a) a legal requirement and/or b) without written consent of the person whose data is processed. This is no national la, it is European Law which superseeds national law. Ofcourse, that will change in he UK in a few months time, but if someone wants to get you in trouble, they can.
And I know what I am talking about regarding the Data Protection, I have to work witht the regulations every day.

 

[gnirtS]

GDPR is yet another horrifically draconian and awfully thought out legislated so fortunately the UK will be away from that crap. Yet another overly repressive piece of legislation drafted by people who dont and neve have lived or worked in the real world.

However, the reasonable expectation of privacy still exists even in european law so GDPR wont change that. GDPR also has a "‘’Legitimate Interests is likely to be most appropriate where you use people’s data in ways they would reasonably expect and which have a minimal privacy impact, or where there is a compelling justification for the processing.’ " clause.

 

[hippa]

Easy part of GDPR (General Data Protection Requlation):

it does not apply non-commercial activity by a natural person.

Like me and my not-monetized youtube videos, right?

Part 18 of GDPR:

This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data by a natural person in the course of a purely personal or household activity and thus with no connection to a professional or commercial activity. Personal or household activities could include correspondence and the holding of addresses, or social networking and online activity undertaken within the context of such activities. However, this Regulation applies to controllers or processors which provide the means for processing personal data for such personal or household activities.

Same in German:

Diese Verordnung gilt nicht für die Verarbeitung von personenbezogenen Daten, die von einer natürlichen Person zur Ausübung ausschließlich persönlicher oder familiärer Tätigkeiten und somit ohne Bezug zu einer beruflichen oder wirtschaftlichen Tätigkeit vorgenommen wird. Als persönliche oder familiäre Tätigkeiten könnte auch das Führen eines Schriftverkehrs oder von Anschriftenverzeichnissen oder die Nutzung sozialer Netze und Online-Tätigkeiten im Rahmen solcher Tätigkeiten gelten. Diese Verordnung gilt jedoch für die Verantwortlichen oder Auftragsverarbeiter, die die Instrumente für die Verarbeitung personenbezogener Daten für solche persönlichen oder familiären Tätigkeiten bereitstellen.

 

[hippa]

And link to the source:

Regulation - 2016/679 - EN - gdpr - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

 

[Deleted member 65595]

The thing they might catch you on is not the privacy but the European Data Prtection Act in the latest version. In there, pictures are considered to be personal data sicne they can be followed back to the person on the picture. If looked for a charge, at the end of the day, the argument that is going to be used is, that the storage and processing of this piece of personal data has been done without a) a legal requirement and/or b) without written consent of the person whose data is processed. This is no national la, it is European Law which superseeds national law. Ofcourse, that will change in he UK in a few months time, but if someone wants to get you in trouble, they can.
And I know what I am talking about regarding the Data Protection, I have to work witht the regulations every day.

Thanks for the insight. Based on my video, if someone in it saw it and decided to sue me, do you think I would get in trouble? I think common sense triumphs the law in a courtroom (when dealing with these extreme privacy cases)

 

[Olav van Gerven]

I don't think you have to be afraid of someone in Germany sueing you. The most they can do is put a complain with the dataprotection authorities. IF they decide to take action (which is questionable considering the fact that they are public servants and taking action would harm their sleep) they will notify you that there is a complain, tell you that you are a naughty boy and that's it.
In Germany it is not so easy to sue someone for civil cases like this would be. To do so, you have to proof damage and what is the damage caused by the picture being published? Some of you photones lost? What does one cost? Your wife or husband has seen you being filmed in a place you have never been with a woman/man you've never met? To file a civil lawsuit here, the hurdles are high, I would not have sleepless nights over this.
The reason I pointed the things out was (is) that I think it is important to be aware of local rules and regulations. First and most of all because it might get you in trouble being there and people (over)reacting to your actions. Especially as we are flying drones, which the general public is not always happy about, I think we have a responsibility to be a good advocate of this hobby.

Have fun flying, stay safe and always have enough distance to obstacles!

 

[marcbyron]

I will be traveling to Germany from the USA in three weeks and will be taking my drone. Can I just fly there with my FAA number displayed on the drone, or do I have to register my drone for my 2 week vacation?

 

[Olav van Gerven]

Depends on what drone you bring. If the drone weighs less then 2 kg (i.e. Mavic Air), you do not need any paperwork for the drone. Over 2 kg and up to 5 kg, you need a certificat that you are able to fly the drone. I did it online (without any studies, just using my brain) and it costs € 27,50 (25 + tax).
Over 5 kg you need more paperwork.

No matter the weight of the drone, as the pilot you need to have proof of a liability insurance on you all the time that you operate the drone. I am not sure if it is okay to have a copy of an email on your phone, will probably depend on the mood of the person checking you.

There are some basic rules: Not over crowds, not over closed housingareas, for foto- and/or video you have to have prior consent (formally, as long as no one complains, no one bothers), no flights over or in close distance to the side of an incident and/or police / EMS activities, no flying within 100 meters of Autobahn or federal waterroutes (generally, all major canal or rivers), not in or over naturreserves. And the obvius things likes airports etc.

Basic thing is, behave and show you are responsible and no one will bother you.

 

[Deleted member 65595]

As far as I know, there is no need to register the drone. I didn't register it anyway. Hope you enjoy your trip, where are you going?

I will be traveling to Germany from the USA in three weeks and will be taking my drone. Can I just fly there with my FAA number displayed on the drone, or do I have to register my drone for my 2 week vacation?

 

[HumbearKS]

Depends on what drone you bring. If the drone weighs less then 2 kg (i.e. Mavic Air), you do not need any paperwork for the drone. Over 2 kg and up to 5 kg, you need a certificat that you are able to fly the drone. I did it online (without any studies, just using my brain) and it costs € 27,50 (25 + tax).
Over 5 kg you need more paperwork.

No matter the weight of the drone, as the pilot you need to have proof of a liability insurance on you all the time that you operate the drone. I am not sure if it is okay to have a copy of an email on your phone, will probably depend on the mood of the person checking you.

There are some basic rules: Not over crowds, not over closed housingareas, for foto- and/or video you have to have prior consent (formally, as long as no one complains, no one bothers), no flights over or in close distance to the side of an incident and/or police / EMS activities, no flying within 100 meters of Autobahn or federal waterroutes (generally, all major canal or rivers), not in or over naturreserves. And the obvius things likes airports etc.

Basic thing is, behave and show you are responsible and no one will bother you.

Hi Olav, do you know whether in Germany there is such a thing as ad-hoc or individual flight insurance as offered by Verifly here in the US? Appr. $10 or $15 for a short 1 hour flight?

 

[Olav van Gerven]

Hi Olav, do you know whether in Germany there is such a thing as ad-hoc or individual flight insurance as offered by Verifly here in the US? Appr. $10 or $15 for a short 1 hour flight?

Not to my knowledge. I have my drone insured through "helden.de", cost €70 per year and not only covers drones but all kinds of civil liabillity. You might check with them if there is such a thing as temporary insurance to a fair price.

If you like, I could contact them for you on monday.

 

[raytom]

some more informations about the european regulations... Europe publishes common drone rules, giving operators a year to prepare – TechCrunch