FAA Letter Requesting My Statement/Evidence Regarding a "Law Enforcement" Interferrence Operation

[BorderMavik]

I am new to this Forum, but not a new Mavik pilot. I am a long-time FAA certificated pilot. I post this to bring awareness of what a "Law Enforcement" agency, can do to make your life miserable. I have read about many "incidents" of drone pilots flying over wildfires, EMTs, rescue operations, etc. I have never done any of this, nor will I unless I have the proper clearances. What happened to me is an assault on my basic right to fly in an isolated desert. Details...June 9th, I drove over to the California Yuha Desert BLM public land and there was no one to be seen for miles...no Border Patrol, no BLM Ranger. I was there to photograph a certain section of the vehicle border barrier that was selected by CBP to be replaced with the 30 foot bollard style fencing. CBP put out a Public Notice for input and I went there to see it for myself. As I am flying my Mavik in US airspace, about 100 feet back from the official border boundary with Mexico, a young BP agent comes along and gets real close to me talking loud and asking questions. I tell him I am operating an aircraft (drone) and will talk when I land it. Not good enough for this youngster punk, he loudly peppers me with more questions, and now I lose eye contact with the drone and hit RTS just to get it back in view. Long story short, he calls his buddies and after hours of dogs sniffing and supervisor involvement, they begin to realize I am no Illegal. LOL. But then the worse happens...they call the BLM Ranger since only he has the authority to seize my Mavik, which in hindsight seems to be what they wanted. After a recorded discussion with the Ranger, I reluctantly give up my Mavik to the Ranger as "evidence" and get a Violation for "Creating a Hazard or Nuisance" and we part ways. Court date is this September 10th. The Certified Mail letter I got today from FAA states they are "investigating an incident" and that it was reported I "interferred with the operation of a law enforcement agency" and they want my statement/evidence. I contacted this same FAA FSDO office in San Diego and asked to file a complaint against the BP agent for interfering with my flight operation. Crickets. So depending on what happens in Federal court, I just may file a lawsuit naming CBP, BLM, and now FAA as defendants. Sage advice from knowledgeable pilots?

 

[Mavic Mac]

I am new to this Forum, but not a new Mavik pilot. I am a long-time FAA certificated pilot. I post this to bring awareness of what a "Law Enforcement" agency, can do to make your life miserable. I have read about many "incidents" of drone pilots flying over wildfires, EMTs, rescue operations, etc. I have never done any of this, nor will I unless I have the proper clearances. What happened to me is an assault on my basic right to fly in an isolated desert. Details...June 9th, I drove over to the California Yuha Desert BLM public land and there was no one to be seen for miles...no Border Patrol, no BLM Ranger. I was there to photograph a certain section of the vehicle border barrier that was selected by CBP to be replaced with the 30 foot bollard style fencing. CBP put out a Public Notice for input and I went there to see it for myself. As I am flying my Mavik in US airspace, about 100 feet back from the official border boundary with Mexico, a young BP agent comes along and gets real close to me talking loud and asking questions. I tell him I am operating an aircraft (drone) and will talk when I land it. Not good enough for this youngster punk, he loudly peppers me with more questions, and now I lose eye contact with the drone and hit RTS just to get it back in view. Long story short, he calls his buddies and after hours of dogs sniffing and supervisor involvement, they begin to realize I am no Illegal. LOL. But then the worse happens...they call the BLM Ranger since only he has the authority to seize my Mavik, which in hindsight seems to be what they wanted. After a recorded discussion with the Ranger, I reluctantly give up my Mavik to the Ranger as "evidence" and get a Violation for "Creating a Hazard or Nuisance" and we part ways. Court date is this September 10th. The Certified Mail letter I got today from FAA states they are "investigating an incident" and that it was reported I "interferred with the operation of a law enforcement agency" and they want my statement/evidence. I contacted this same FAA FSDO office in San Diego and asked to file a complaint against the BP agent for interfering with my flight operation. Crickets. So depending on what happens in Federal court, I just may file a lawsuit naming CBP, BLM, and now FAA as defendants. Sage advice from knowledgeable pilots?

Very interesting /disturbing encounter. Just curious, how long were you airborne before the BP agent showed up ?

 

[DanMan32]

Although it doesn't sound like you were illegal unless in controlled airspace without clearance or in TFR, I could understand border patrols being nervous about flying within 100' of Mexican border.

FAA may be your ally if you were in G space without a TFR in place.

 

[Thomas B]

most likely issue will be launch/land from forest service lands especially if near an area with special restrictions

 

[DanMan32]

Looking up Yuha, the issue may be more of where you were standing rather than you operating a drone, both issues dovetailing and magnifying the situation.
Although I don't show it as a National Park, if it is, that's an issue. NPS can't prevent you from flying above NPS airspace, they can prevent you from taking off, landing or operating within NPS area.

I am speculating quite a bit though.

 

[Moose1967]

Have any charges been laid? They are investigating so I wouldnt send them a statement - you are already going to court - how were you compelled to court? Any statement could be evidence against you. Be very careful.

 

[Thomas B]

Looking up Yuha, the issue may be more of where you were standing rather than you operating a drone, both issues dovetailing and magnifying the situation.
Although I don't show it as a National Park, if it is, that's an issue. NPS can't prevent you from flying above NPS airspace, they can prevent you from taking off, landing or operating within NPS area.

I am speculating quite a bit though.

For the OP, please clarify the parts that are speculation. TIA.

 

[johnmeyer]

I am not a lawyer, but my sense is that you are in pretty deep trouble, and should have had more sense than to fly there.

1. You are flying near a border, and there are all sorts of rules about being near a border. One example is the "enforceable distance" from the US coastline, which is twelve nautical miles. You are probably wrong in thinking that all US laws apply within that last few hundred yards from the border.

2. That border has been used for decades for all sorts of illegal smuggling operations, both drugs and human. I am sure the bad guys would love to use "almost undetectable" aerial surveillance to help them determine when and where it would be safe to attempt a crossing. A border agent cannot possibly tell the difference between you and the bad guys.

While I am no fan of our increasingly regulated country, and no longer fly because I can't stand the intrusive TSA searches, I nonetheless totally side with the border patrol on this one. My advice is to cut your losses, pay your fine, and play nice. You have a zero percent chance of winning a lawsuit because they have every right to do what they did because that is what "protecting the border" looks like.

 

[BorderMavik]

Very interesting /disturbing encounter. Just curious, how long were you airborne before the BP agent showed up ?

Was up about 10 min and noticed 2 vehicles coming toward me. The one passed by and only a solo agent stayed to harass me. I have done many shoots on the border documenting illegal crossings in AZ and those agents are pretty cool. This rogue BP kid needs to be counseled. The BLM Ranger could have just talked but he too was a jerk. No, this is BLM land with NO drone restrictions, even along the border. It is NOT NFS. I dare say none of you have been in this remote desert in the heat. NO ONE around for miles. Been to the BLM field office many times. Keep in mind, CBP put out a Public request for Comments on the replacement of vehicle barrier with 30 foot bollard pedestrian fencing. I went to see it for myself and have lots of ground photos with BP surrounding me. BLM publishes "Routes of Travel" and I was on one of the routes.

 

[Thomas B]

Was up about 10 min and noticed 2 vehicles coming toward me. The one passed by and only a solo agent stayed to harass me. I have done many shoots on the border documenting illegal crossings in AZ and those agents are pretty cool. This rogue BP kid needs to be counseled. The BLM Ranger could have just talked but he too was a jerk.

Wonder if the younger agent was still in a training situation?

 

[DanMan32]

For the OP, please clarify the parts that are speculation. TIA.

I made the speculation comment about the land use, not the OP.

 

[DanMan32]

The 12 miles is from shore out to sea, and that land laws apply that far out from shore. It defines where international waters and agreed upon international rules begin.
Restrictions from land bordering another country would be different.

However it would be good to find out what the buffer zone is, if any. 100' does seem awfully close though and would make me uncomfortable. Even near Canada, where we don't have much of a border issue would be risky.

 

[DanMan32]

I am not a lawyer, but my sense is that you are in pretty deep trouble, and should have had more sense than to fly there.

1. You are flying near a border, and there are all sorts of rules about being near a border. One example is the "enforceable distance" from the US coastline, which is twelve nautical miles. You are probably wrong in thinking that all US laws apply within that last few hundred yards from the border.

2. That border has been used for decades for all sorts of illegal smuggling operations, both drugs and human. I am sure the bad guys would love to use "almost undetectable" aerial surveillance to help them determine when and where it would be safe to attempt a crossing. A border agent cannot possibly tell the difference between you and the bad guys.

While I am no fan of our increasingly regulated country, and no longer fly because I can't stand the intrusive TSA searches, I nonetheless totally side with the border patrol on this one. My advice is to cut your losses, pay your fine, and play nice. You have a zero percent chance of winning a lawsuit because they have every right to do what they did because that is what "protecting the border" looks like.

You could get a pre-check clearance. $80 for 5 years.

Although flying within 100ft from an international border seems like a bad idea, if there's no law for being there, how can there be any fine/lawsuit? In that case it could be harassment on the side of LEO if all the hostility came from them. I don't find it unreasonable to ask to safely land before engaging in a lengthy conversation.

 

[Thomas B]

You could get a pre-check clearance. $80 for 5 years.

But not this case for the OP.

 

[Paul2660]

I was not aware that BLM lands were not allowed for flights. I realize national parks are all no fly. But I thought BLM lands were controlled the same as National Forests. It’s my understanding flights are allowed in National Forest in the US as long as the current FAA flight rules are followed for drones. And said National Forest is not in controlled airspace.

Paul C

 

[Mavic Mac]

Was up about 10 min and noticed 2 vehicles coming toward me. The one passed by and only a solo agent stayed to harass me. I have done many shoots on the border documenting illegal crossings in AZ and those agents are pretty cool. This rogue BP kid needs to be counseled. The BLM Ranger could have just talked but he too was a jerk. No, this is BLM land with NO drone restrictions, even along the border. It is NOT NFS. I dare say none of you have been in this remote desert in the heat. NO ONE around for miles. Been to the BLM field office many times. Keep in mind, CBP put out a Public request for Comments on the replacement of vehicle barrier with 30 foot bollard pedestrian fencing. I went to see it for myself and have lots of ground photos with BP surrounding me. BLM publishes "Routes of Travel" and I was on one of the routes.

Not knowing the exact situation but unfortunately sometimes the supervisor has to "go by the book" to cover their own butt. Same with the ranger.
I had a friend that left an open can of beer in their truck when they went fishing in YNP. While fishing he noticed a ranger vehicle parked behind his truck so he left the river and walked up to see what was going on. There was a young ranger checking out the truck and inquired about the beer. My friend was honest about it. The "rookie" ranger called for a supervisor. Once the supervisor arrived my buddy was issued a violation for the open container. Thankfully my buddy contacted the court (Federal) and explained the situation - case was thrown out. My buddy felt the supervisor had the rookie issue the violation just to cover his butt.
If you have to appear in court IMHO it may pay to call the court prior to your appearance date and explain the situation. Hopefully you will get the situation resolved and case dismissed.

 

[johnmeyer]

The 12 miles is from shore out to sea, and that land laws apply that far out from shore. It defines where international waters and agreed upon international rules begin.
Restrictions from land bordering another country would be different.

Yes, I totally agree. I was just using that because it was an illustration on how a "line" between two jurisdictions (land and international waters, in my example) is not necessarily at the boundary.

There is also the falsehood that a state policeman cannot pursue you across state lines. It has been presented this way in old movies, but it is not the law.

Finally, while I leave researching the applicable law to the OP, a quick search turned up this:

.. Immigration and Nationality Act 287(a)(3) and copied in 8 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) 287 (a)(3), which states that Immigration Officers, without a warrant, may "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States...board and search for aliens in any vessel within the territorial waters of the United States and any railcar, aircraft, conveyance, or vehicle. 8 CFR 287 (a)(1) defines reasonable distance as 100 air miles from the border.​

I'm sure a full reading of the applicable law would show that they most definitely have the ability, withing 100 miles of the border, to search, and probably seize, any item that might be considered to be involved in illegal operations. While you were not engaged in illegal activity, your purpose could not possibly be known to them.

While I too live by the old adage, "it is easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission," in your case, the next time you should first ask permission, because I think you will find that begging forgiveness is going to be very expensive and time consuming.

 

[BorderMavik]

I am not a lawyer, but my sense is that you are in pretty deep trouble, and should have had more sense than to fly there.

1. You are flying near a border, and there are all sorts of rules about being near a border. One example is the "enforceable distance" from the US coastline, which is twelve nautical miles. You are probably wrong in thinking that all US laws apply within that last few hundred yards from the border.

2. That border has been used for decades for all sorts of illegal smuggling operations, both drugs and human. I am sure the bad guys would love to use "almost undetectable" aerial surveillance to help them determine when and where it would be safe to attempt a crossing. A border agent cannot possibly tell the difference between you and the bad guys.

While I am no fan of our increasingly regulated country, and no longer fly because I can't stand the intrusive TSA searches, I nonetheless totally side with the border patrol on this one. My advice is to cut your losses, pay your fine, and play nice. You have a zero percent chance of winning a lawsuit because they have every right to do what they did because that is what "protecting the border" looks like.

Here is the point your missing. If we can't fly in such a remote desert area without getting hassled by a rogue kid, and they call it "law enforcement" operations, then the industry is in more trouble than I think. Remember, I was operating on Public land, on a designated route, no TFRs, no visible "law enforcement" or EMS activity to interfere with, just the lizards and cacti. And my legal team stands by my 100%. Will I spend my dime to sue? Probably not, but hey, government agents can be abusive. So if you go to the same BLM land with your POV and the registration is not current, does that mean they have a right to seize the vehicle? Or just give you a ticket? Cmon pilots...some common sense. Or is there any left in today's society. Bottom line...the government agent interferred with the operation of my aircraft, not the other way around. He could have waited for me to land, then we talk it over!!

 

[TampaTC]

I too am not a lawyer, but play one on the internet like others also do.

1. Remove this post if possible and don't post anything regarding up coming litigation!
2. Search for an aviation attorney. It may be harder than you think to find one.
3. Use Facebook, look for a gentleman named Vic Moss. Send him a Private message stating your predicament. He may have some advice on what to do about the FAA and where to retain counsel.
4. After your day in court, Post your case in full detail. Good or bad.

Best of luck.

One last note to all. Texas farmers Land boarders Mexico. Farmers can fly their land surveying fields. I assume it is a land use offence in some matter.

 

[BorderMavik]

I too am not a lawyer, but play one on the internet like others also do.

1. Remove this post if possible and don't post anything regarding up coming litigation!
2. Search for an aviation attorney. It may be harder than you think to find one.
3. Use Facebook, look for a gentleman named Vic Moss. Send him a Private message stating your predicament. He may have some advice on what to do about the FAA and where to retain counsel.
4. After your day in court, Post your case in full detail. Good or bad.

Best of luck.

One last note to all. Texas farmers Land boarders Mexico. Farmers can fly their land surveying fields. I assume it is a land use offence in some matter.

I appreciate your comments and those of the others. I get what your saying about deleting the post. I choose to keep it for good reasons. Legal team agrees. As clarification, the upcoming Federal court date is about the Violation issued by BLM Ranger for "creating a hazard or nuisance" NOT any violations from BP and it is not "litigation". The BP agents and their supervisor knew they had nothing to get me on, so they had me wait for over 1.5 hours for "someone" that wanted to talk to me. LOL. They wanted someone with the power and jurisdiction, like the Ranger, to interrogate me and find some tiny cause to seize the aircraft. I have flown in private aircraft on top of the border many times. It is an ADIZ and know all about procedure. No issues at all, but of course, no one could physically harass me in flight, until I land. I live close to the border and have many BP friends in my community and they are disturbed at this rogue agents actions, but of course can't come to my defense. I merely need to convince the judge with my photgraphic evidence that my flight operation was legal, and did not interfere with a law enforcement operation. Will let you all know.