Flying over minors as "participants". What is needed beyond insurance?

[vindibona1]

I've been hired to film a short dance segment put on by a local (private) school. It will be performed outdoors in an open area much like a small soccer field. I already have ATC/FAA authorization to fly (as it is near an airport) and DJI has unlocked the geofence for that area. I applied for the clearance and unlocking in advance of accepting the job, knowing that clearance was essential to my taking on the project. My plan is to do some flying directly overhead much like you've seen in the old movies with the water ballet scenes, but will also be filming from the ground, which may include hand holding a drone on the ground as it has a gimbal where my DSLR does not.

Does the school, formally sponsoring, ok-ing and paying for the video automatically make their students "participants", the participant part being required as per FAA rules to fly over them? Yes, I plan on getting liability insurance for the day, the expense being covered in my contract. Are there any other things to consider (i.e. parents' consent forms?) before flying/filming?

 

[sar104]

They are not participants - that refers to flight crew. You will not be able to fly directly over them without contravening Part 107.

 

[vindibona1]

They are not participants - that refers to flight crew. You will not be able to fly directly over them without contravening Part 107.

Upon further research you are correct. I guess I will have to avoid flying directly over them. I can work with that. There are lots of creative angles I can use without going directly over-head.

Interestingly, within the research I discovered one can fly over people indoors as FAA does not control that airspace. However, as we all know, flying indoors is more tricky as we can suddenly find ourselves in Atti mode making it very difficult to control our drones.

 

[old man mavic]

@vindibona1 i would suggest that the school at the very least get some sort of permission forms for the parents to sign explaining that a drone will be filming the event ,and on the day before you start flying ,give a short talk to the assembled people saying where you intend to fly and what measures you have in place in the event of something going wrong when you are air born ,with respect to an area for a safe landing away from people

 

[Jam0ne]

Propeller guards

 

[vindibona1]

@vindibona1 i would suggest that the school at the very least get some sort of permission forms for the parents to sign explaining that a drone will be filming the event ,and on the day before you start flying ,give a short talk to the assembled people saying where you intend to fly and what measures you have in place in the event of something going wrong when you are air born ,with respect to an area for a safe landing away from people

The talk part is already part of the program. I'll have to consult with the school to see what is appropriate in this case as it is a private school. I plan on attending at least one rehearal and will have an opportunity to speak with everybody at that time so on the performance day only have to run through some reminders. The rehearsal will also help me come up with a viable flight/film plan. At this point I will have a number of VO's on site and hope to have one assistant. It's still 8 weeks away and I'm just trying to stay ahead of the curve and do my homework to accomodate whatever needs accomodating. I've already tested the geofence on the premises and have gone through the FAA waiver to get unlocked and will get updted ATC authorization (and insurance).

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Oh this is where the zoom can pay off nicely.
Cannot wait to see what you come up with.

One other thing you can do to add some spice is todo a fly through when the School is closed that will gain you some points with the kids.

have fun.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and Land on Water.

 

[vindibona1]

Propeller guards

That's a thought. I have them for my Mini 2 and was planning on getting some for my M2P for indoor operations. I prefer to fly my M2 because the tripod mode is super easy to control smoothly and the sensors add an extra level of safety. They don't let me come within 8 feet of anything, which is kind of annoying sometimes.

 

[Rich QR]

I would consider carrying a shrill whistle, and telling the kids that, if they hear that, they should stop the performance, look to see where the drone is, and get out of the way.

It's very unlikely to be needed, but if a hawk attacks your drone, or a prop breaks, or some other unforseen thing happens, it's good to have a plan to warn them.

Also, have your takeoff zone cordoned off and well away from the kids, so that in case of loss of communicaions, RTH will safely take the drone to a landing spot away from trouble.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Not a fan of telling the kids anything that can induce panic, or alarming the kids of anything let alone a blow whistle.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and land on Water.

 

[BigAl07]

It sounds like FUN but I'm not sure I'd be willing to take on that level of LIABILITY. You're possibly opening Pandora's box and if there is an incident or a complaint it will not work out well.

 

[vindibona1]

I would consider carrying a shrill whistle, and telling the kids that, if they hear that, they should stop the performance, look to see where the drone is, and get out of the way.

It's very unlikely to be needed, but if a hawk attacks your drone, or a prop breaks, or some other unforseen thing happens, it's good to have a plan to warn them.

Also, have your takeoff zone cordoned off and well away from the kids, so that in case of loss of communicaions, RTH will safely take the drone to a landing spot away from trouble.

I think a whistle is a great idea. I was thinking air horn, but a whistle would provide more immediate access. I'm not sure that moving to get out of the way is necessarily a good idea as it relies on split second reactions, requiring instantaneously visually picking up the drone and then moving. Moving into the path of a falling drone seems more likely. Perhaps teaching them to get down and cover up might be a more useful strategy? I don't anticipate flying that high or that fast. I can see getting some prop guards for my M2 for that extra margin of safety.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I think a whistle is a great idea. I was thinking air horn, but a whistle would provide more immediate access. I'm not sure that moving to get out of the way is necessarily a good idea as it relies on split second reactions, requiring instantaneously visually picking up the drone and then moving. Moving into the path of a falling drone seems more likely. Perhaps teaching them to get down and cover up might be a more useful strategy? I don't anticipate flying that high or that fast. I can see getting some prop guards for my M2 for that extra margin of safety.

Im pretty sure if you blow an Air Horn that you will have every Neighbor every school assistant , every police , fire truck and swat team thinking there is a School Shooting, Its a bad idea...

Phatomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain.

 

[vindibona1]

It sounds like FUN but I'm not sure I'd be willing to take on that level of LIABILITY. You're possibly opening Pandora's box and if there is an incident or a complaint it will not work out well.

I think this thread is causing me to think things through for extra levels of caution and precaution. Commercial liability insurance is a given. Making sure that there is minimal risk with planning and forethought should make this doable without much risk. I believe that planning is the key to safety and success.

 

[vindibona1]

Not a fan of telling the kids anything that can induce panic, or alarming the kids of anything let alone a blow whistle.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and land on Water.

I'll have to think that one through.

 

[Rich QR]

Not a fan of telling the kids anything that can induce panic, or alarming the kids of anything let alone a blow whistle.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and land on Water.

Every kid goes through fire drills at school, and depending on local dangers, perhaps earthquake drills, tornado drills, active shooter drills, bomb drills, etc. If they ride a school bus, they're told how to decide whether to exit via the rear or front if the bus gets stuck on railroad tracks. If they ever board a commercial airliner, they're told about the oxygen masks and exit slides.

Panic doesn't come from being calmly briefed on what to do in case of emergency, it comes from experiencing an emergency without knowing what to do.

That said, I'd certainly discuss any briefing plans with the schoolteachers, and perhaps let them deliver the message in their calm way.

If it's really judged that the risk isn't worth mentioning to them, so be it, but I'd lean toward having a plan.

And then I'd do everything within my power to avoid the need to put the plan into action.

 

[Thomas B]

...... And then I'd do everything within my power to avoid the need to put the plan into action.

Only one way to completely avoid the need to utilize such a plan.

 

[spsphotos]

Also, keep in mind that flying over does not just mean at 90 degrees to the person. You need to maintain a reasonable distance horizontally as well...depending on how high you are flying but save to say 20 feet or 20 degrees angle from person. Drone can still hit someone given the right momentum.

 

[ICHOTT]

Experience, plan and practice the flight route as best possible, prop guards, safety signal eg whistle, ( hard hats ?) , full battery’s, good visual sight of the flight area, good strobe lights, at least one observer away from the pilot in audio comms with the pilot, confidence ?? hope it goes well ??

 

[theDRONEranger]

I do know that Ken Heron did a video of flying over people. FIRST, it was indoors. SECOND, he did ask the persons in attendance if they would be volunteering to be VO’s for the flight. All agreed with a raise of the hand on video.
But these were adults, not minors. Absolute major differences: ages, location, ability to provide legal consent as participants!

SUGGESTION: If possible, beforehand, lay out the exact know area the kids will be performing in with a high vis tape or other product, i.e., toilet paper. Establish the outside of the designated area as a no person zone. Practice your flight strictly on the outside of the marker line. The use of additional VOs at the purported corners with handitalkies would be an added safety touch! Additional fee, in contract!

ABOVE ALL, place yourself in the parents position and insist the safest environment for your subjects.


Finally, for B roll, GoPro cameras on high extended poles to capture additional footage from the perimeters.

These little rascals help me out every now and then for the extended pole shots: Amazon.com: Pawfly 20 pcs Wire Keychain Cable 4 Inch Stainless Steel Key Ring Loop for Outdoor Hiking: Clothing.

And, the inexpensive pole is from Homer’s PVC aisle. With appropriate endcap and 1/4x20 bolt passed through for appropriate attachments. The rings from Amazon, small, long length bolts in drilled holes at appropriate height to hold the pole upright via cheap camping tent stakes and nylon string. PVC from Homer’s is a great goto. Can of spray paint if ya want! I’ve even stacked 2 10 footers before. I cut mine in 5 foot lengths for portability and use PVC connectors to stack them together. Cameras are 2 GoPro Hero8’s linked via GoPro Remote Control. Hey, it works! You can get some great additional footage.