Flying over schools when no one is there?

[Nagem]

I understand that flying over schools general no-no but I am wondering if it is still no OK to do so when the school is not occupied. For instance early morning on a Sunday with no students or staff present? I'd like to take pictures of a local school because I think it's got some amazing architecture but I don't want to get in trouble for doing something illegal.

 

[AMann]

I understand that flying over schools general no-no but I am wondering if it is still no OK to do so when the school is not occupied. For instance early morning on a Sunday with no students or staff present? I'd like to take pictures of a local school because I think it's got some amazing architecture but I don't want to get in trouble for doing something illegal.

Ask the school administration for permission first and offer to give them copies of your work- and here's a golden gift they would definitely want- including a nadir (straight down) shot or a stitchable series of shots they can use for a campus map.

I work at a school and I asked if I could shoot mine (for practice mKing maps as I just got my 107) and they offered me a contract to do it. With my suggestion, maintenance wants to put aerial targets out on their water risers and other underground infrastructure so it will be easily located on the photos (we will be using big numbered plates as targets). We are waiting for a winter weekend to shoot it when the campus is vacant and after the trees drop their leaves so we can see more of the ground beneath them in the photos.

Another benefit to getting their permission is just in case your drone goes down on school grounds, especially if it is behind their fence. Otherwise, what would you say when you call them to retrieve it?

Good luck!

 

[Mrmund]

Just checking to be sure.
In America, launching and landing at a public school ballfield is kosher yes?

 

[Nagem]

Ask the school administration for permission first and offer to give them copies of your work- and here's a golden gift they would definitely want- including a nadir (straight down) shot or a stitchable series of shots they can use for a campus map.

I work at a school and I asked if I could shoot mine (for practice mKing maps as I just got my 107) and they offered me a contract to do it. With my suggestion, maintenance wants to put aerial targets out on their water risers and other underground infrastructure so it will be easily located on the photos (we will be using big numbered plates as targets). We are waiting for a winter weekend to shoot it when the campus is vacant and after the trees drop their leaves so we can see more of the ground beneath them in the photos.

Another benefit to getting their permission is just in case your drone goes down on school grounds, especially if it is behind their fence. Otherwise, what would you say when you call them to retrieve it?

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I found the administration's email and sent them an email asking about it as you suggested. Fingers crossed they allow it!

 

[svickstc]

I was not aware that School Zone areas became no drone fly zones? What is the basis for this, is it a school rule? If so the school cant govern the sky but possibly be the property as far as launching and landing. Just launch and land from another area and should not have any issues as long as you are not flying over groups of people, a stadium filled with people.

 

[AMann]

I was not aware that School Zone areas became no drone fly zones? What is the basis for this, is it a school rule? If so the school cant govern the sky but possibly be the property as far as launching and landing. Just launch and land from another area and should not have any issues as long as you are not flying over groups of people, a stadium filled with people.

Just because one can fly over someplace does not mean they should do it unannounced - as a responsible drone pilot, it makes sense to approach the school administration first. They are responsible for the student’s safety (and parent’s concerns), and are (should) be vigilant as to what is happening on (and close above) their campus.

Besides, on a personal level, even a irresponsible pilot who flies their drone unannounced over the school, even if it was off hours, would have to explain to the admin why they were doing it if their drone goes down behind a locked fence, and quite possibly to the police who wasted their time responding to a anonymous drone flying over the school.

 

[AMann]

Thanks for the advice. I found the administration's email and sent them an email asking about it as you suggested. Fingers crossed they allow it!

You made a good choice to ask first, it makes the drone pilot community look more responsible too. Good luck!

 

[svickstc]

Just because one can fly over someplace does not mean they should do it unannounced - as a responsible drone pilot, it makes sense to approach the school administration first. They are responsible for the student’s safety (and parent’s concerns), and are (should) be vigilant as to what is happening on (and close above) their campus.

Besides, on a personal level, even a irresponsible pilot who flies their drone unannounced over the school, even if it was off hours, would have to explain to the admin why they were doing it if their drone goes down behind a locked fence, and quite possibly to the police who wasted their time responding to a anonymous drone flying over the school.

I hear you on that, but during a weekend off hours no events, i dont really see the need. As a responsible part 107 holder i understand the validity of wanting to do things with permission. But even if the drone gets lost on school property, technically its public property of the tax payers, at least around these parts, fields and tracks are open to the public to use during off hours, aka there is no posted/private property signs to worry about trespassing to retrieve a lost drone. Again, i totally understand the public safety aspect of this flight during a populated event, during school hours, etc. A school is not a protected area as far as i know. If there is a locked gate somewhere, it would take one call to the building to explain the situation and maybe a day later have your drone back, they cant keep property that doesnt belong to them, even if it did land on their property.

It just takes one overzealous and non educated personnel to respond to your request and say No, without any understanding or possible knowledge of drones, and you are shot down before you even get off the ground, as opposed to being responsible following FAA rules, state, local rules as long as non are preemptive, than doing your flight and possibly being approached by a personal where you get a chance to explain yourself and educate in person if having an encounter at all. If its legal to fly via FAA, State, Local regulations sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness than permission in some instances when in comes to a flight like this in my opinion. A personal interaction can go a much longer way than an email if everything you are doing is legal.

You are even better off letting the police know your flight location/intentions rather than a school board or school official as i have gone this proactive approach when flying in an area, to just let the local PD know where, who and, what i am doing and if they get a call about someone flying a drone they can just say we know. Again vs. a school board official who could just have a power trip and shut you down without knowing any actual UAV laws or regulations, which if you go out and fly anyway since you are legally allowed to do so and then get approached you are putting yourself in a different situation with someone coming out saying "Hey, i told you that you cant fly here" as opposed to "Hey, can i ask you what you are doing?"

Again this is not advocating anything illegal, nor do i think its irresponsible advice, and as long as you follow the rules it should not be any issue to not have to ask for permission. That would almost be like extending that to every building or property you ever flew over no?

 

[Survey Dave]

Setting up my flight plan through Airmap I have been denied flights when they cross the yellow circle over schools. As soon as I move my boundary away form the school I am fine. I am not sure if I don't get immediate clearance because it takes longer for approval over a school. I have a program coming up on October 17 which is part of an AGC event where they have asked me to fly several times for groups of kids at the school ("Construction Days"). I work for an engineering firm so we will have our GPS, Total stations and UAS set up. I am currently working on getting letters from the School Super. and official letterhead from my firm to help with getting clearance. I hope someone can chime in if this is something that takes several days or if it should be an immediate ok through Airmap. Since I am there to teach the students about proper UAS procedure and the safety guidelines which one should always follow, I don't really want to be in the air without proper clearance. Our whole city falls within the airport radius. I also would like to see where a pilot could get clearance for multiple drones at once. If there is a way please let me know. I have 2 UAS and a lot of times fly them both for different reasons at the same job sites.

 

[AMann]

I hear you on that, but during a weekend off hours no events, i dont really see the need. As a responsible part 107 holder i understand the validity of wanting to do things with permission. But even if the drone gets lost on school property, technically its public property of the tax payers, at least around these parts, fields and tracks are open to the public to use during off hours, aka there is no posted/private property signs to worry about trespassing to retrieve a lost drone. Again, i totally understand the public safety aspect of this flight during a populated event, during school hours, etc. A school is not a protected area as far as i know. If there is a locked gate somewhere, it would take one call to the building to explain the situation and maybe a day later have your drone back, they cant keep property that doesnt belong to them, even if it did land on their property.

It just takes one overzealous and non educated personnel to respond to your request and say No, without any understanding or possible knowledge of drones, and you are shot down before you even get off the ground, as opposed to being responsible following FAA rules, state, local rules as long as non are preemptive, than doing your flight and possibly being approached by a personal where you get a chance to explain yourself and educate in person if having an encounter at all. If its legal to fly via FAA, State, Local regulations sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness than permission in some instances when in comes to a flight like this in my opinion. A personal interaction can go a much longer way than an email if everything you are doing is legal.

You are even better off letting the police know your flight location/intentions rather than a school board or school official as i have gone this proactive approach when flying in an area, to just let the local PD know where, who and, what i am doing and if they get a call about someone flying a drone they can just say we know. Again vs. a school board official who could just have a power trip and shut you down without knowing any actual UAV laws or regulations, which if you go out and fly anyway since you are legally allowed to do so and then get approached you are putting yourself in a different situation with someone coming out saying "Hey, i told you that you cant fly here" as opposed to "Hey, can i ask you what you are doing?"

Again this is not advocating anything illegal, nor do i think its irresponsible advice, and as long as you follow the rules it should not be any issue to not have to ask for permission. That would almost be like extending that to every building or property you ever flew over no?

I think schools are going to be the next NFZ’s. I mean, JUUL and other drug drops on closed campuses? JK-

I think it would be more of a student and faculty safety concern, a drone flying around the school will just raise suspicions. Also, if done on the weekend, you still don’t know who is around as it may be late working teachers or other staff present. And like I said before, what happens if your drone goes down on the roof or behind a fence?

 

[AMann]

Setting up my flight plan through Airmap I have been denied flights when they cross the yellow circle over schools. As soon as I move my boundary away form the school I am fine. I am not sure if I don't get immediate clearance because it takes longer for approval over a school. I have a program coming up on October 17 which is part of an AGC event where they have asked me to fly several times for groups of kids at the school ("Construction Days"). I work for an engineering firm so we will have our GPS, Total stations and UAS set up. I am currently working on getting letters from the School Super. and official letterhead from my firm to help with getting clearance. I hope someone can chime in if this is something that takes several days or if it should be an immediate ok through Airmap. Since I am there to teach the students about proper UAS procedure and the safety guidelines which one should always follow, I don't really want to be in the air without proper clearance. Our whole city falls within the airport radius. I also would like to see where a pilot could get clearance for multiple drones at once. If there is a way please let me know. I have 2 UAS and a lot of times fly them both for different reasons at the same job sites.

Our aviation club at school is going to be helping out with my mapping project this winter. I’m going to show them the whole routine of setting up a flight plan, using GPS to get coordinates of the ground targets, getting and checking clearance, checking the sectional maps, setting up a virtual Litchi mission, preflight and flying the drone, and finally processing the photos into a map.

 

[Gindra]

Our aviation club at school is going to be helping out with my mapping project this winter. I’m going to show them the whole routine of setting up a flight plan, using GPS to get coordinates of the ground targets, getting and checking clearance, checking the sectional maps, setting up a virtual Litchi mission, preflight and flying the drone, and finally processing the photos into a map.

Lucky kids! I'd love to attend myself. At 70 I might qualify as a kid, second childhood and all that . It is encouraging to see this kind of educational offering. Next generations of sUAS pilots will perhaps be safer pilots and less prone to think of drones as mere toys.

 

[AMann]

Lucky kids! I'd love to attend myself. At 70 I might qualify as a kid, second childhood and all that . It is encouraging to see this kind of educational offering. Next generations of sUAS pilots will perhaps be safer pilots and less prone to think of drones as mere toys.

At 70, you are just a kid! And I’m just about a decade behind you so that makes me a toddler. Teaching was a recent career change for me and it has been great. Think about it- or at least volunteer yourself to help out with such a club at your local schools. We even have a retired Fish & Game department bush pilot helping out with ours, can’t keep him down I guess!

 

[superstarpup]

Thanks for the advice. I found the administration's email and sent them an email asking about it as you suggested. Fingers crossed they allow it!

And if they say “no” what are you going to do now? You can legally fly there and the administrators don’t have the authority to tell you otherwise.

You made a good choice to ask first, it makes the drone pilot community look more responsible too. Good luck!

None of this.

In a small town one might get a job after asking to overfly. Around here, with a large school district that has had a school shooting and abuts another district which has also had one it would go something like this-

Ask principal. Principal forwards email to school security and district admins. School security and admins forward it to legal, who know nothing about FARs, and they reply to you that you can not due to privacy and security concerns. School security increases the frequency that their armed security officers patrol the campus and if the school has one, advises the school resource officer to be on the alert for suspicious drone activity. An email is sent to parents not to be alarmed about the increased security, it is merely in response to an unspecified, but maybe not credible threat.

which if you go out and fly anyway since you are legally allowed to do so and then get approached you are putting yourself in a different situation with someone coming out saying "Hey, i told you that you cant fly here" as opposed to "Hey, can i ask you what you are doing?"
and as long as you follow the rules it should not be any issue to not have to ask for permission.

A lot of this.

 

[AMann]

And if they say “no” what are you going to do now? You can legally fly there and the administrators don’t have the authority to tell you otherwise.



None of this.

In a small town one might get a job after asking to overfly. Around here, with a large school district that has had a school shooting and abuts another district which has also had one it would go something like this-

Ask principal. Principal forwards email to school security and district admins. School security and admins forward it to legal, who know nothing about FARs, and they reply to you that you can not due to privacy and security concerns. School security increases the frequency that their armed security officers patrol the campus and if the school has one, advises the school resource officer to be on the alert for suspicious drone activity. An email is sent to parents not to be alarmed about the increased security, it is merely in response to an unspecified, but maybe not credible threat.



A lot of this.

As a teacher, I’d have to disagree with this. There would definitely be more alarms set by flying an unannounced drone over a school, even on weekends and more negative results would result if something happened by accident than if notice was made and permission were obtained first. It’s those who choose to fly unannounced over schools, and even more so those who would do it even if they said no, that may cause the creation of new laws prohibiting it for security and student safety.

Also, I do work in a large district (albeit a Charter School as part of that district) and it was their district admin that approved the contract after the principal’s request.

 

[superstarpup]

I disagree. I think you are unwittingly setting up the next person to fly over the school to be hassled by giving the school administrators the idea they have some say in it. I’m no more likely to ask administrators if I can fly over their school than I am to ask a farmer if I can drive down the county road in front of their farm. It’s none of their business, and they don’t have the authority to approve or disapprove such a thing.

 

[AMann]

“...and they don’t have the authority to approve or disapprove such a thing.”

...Yet.

 

[AMann]

I disagree. I think you are unwittingly setting up the next person to fly over the school to be hassled by giving the school administrators the idea they have some say in it. I’m no more likely to ask administrators if I can fly over their school than I am to ask a farmer if I can drive down the county road in front of their farm. It’s none of their business, and they don’t have the authority to approve or disapprove such a thing.

Actually, student safety is their business. And police will be on their side if they say there was a drone hovering over the school and flying unsafely (even if you are flying safely and up high). They dont have authority to say you cant do it, but there may be a time when schools are added to the NFZ list if more people cause issues there. I prefer to not push it and have benefited greatly by asking first.

 

[Skywalker]

Setting up my flight plan through Airmap I have been denied flights when they cross the yellow circle over schools. As soon as I move my boundary away form the school I am fine. I am not sure if I don't get immediate clearance because it takes longer for approval over a school. I have a program coming up on October 17 which is part of an AGC event where they have asked me to fly several times for groups of kids at the school ("Construction Days"). I work for an engineering firm so we will have our GPS, Total stations and UAS set up. I am currently working on getting letters from the School Super. and official letterhead from my firm to help with getting clearance. I hope someone can chime in if this is something that takes several days or if it should be an immediate ok through Airmap. Since I am there to teach the students about proper UAS procedure and the safety guidelines which one should always follow, I don't really want to be in the air without proper clearance. Our whole city falls within the airport radius. I also would like to see where a pilot could get clearance for multiple drones at once. If there is a way please let me know. I have 2 UAS and a lot of times fly them both for different reasons at the same job sites.

Since you brought it up, and what does the yellow circle around schools signify? I figured it was restricted space and just avoid them. Lots of circles around me. I’ve become aware of as I launch from different locations.

 

[DroningOn]

Can somebody please tell me how photographing unoccupied public property can be deemed a threat of any kind? Please, help me out on this.