Got reported and a call from the FAA

[wardtom084]

The Air Ambulance was in one night to our base. I was in the area but not all that close to him (not that it seems to make any difference). It was late at night in this small town so very quite. Up with my Firehouse strobes I knew the pilot could see me. He alerted the ground crew that a drone was in the area. I heard him start up his engine and started moving quickly back to home point. Finally got the first warning of aircraft in area now back home. I was down to 53 feet when he passed where home point was. Found out later they had even sent one of the officers out to find me and could not. All info is recorded on AirData and I had even sent a pix to the FAA (which they appreciated) along with the Trust certificate and drone registration. If this would have been during the day I doubt that I would have even been seen. I told the FAA I broke no rules and all clearance was given to the helicopter. My son (107) said of the night he pilot could not see how far away I was and would not have known I was one of the good guys. The file has been closed and the FAA is a little more particular on these emergency flights. On one side I was wrong but on the other side I did nothing wrong. Discussion?

 

[MS Coast]

Thanks for describing your experience. It sounds like things ended as they should have.

How far is "not all that close to the air ambulance? 100 yards? 1000 yards?
What was the approximate altitude of the helo when it passed over your drone 53 feet above the home point?

If a nearby manned aircraft is identifiable as an emergency response or military aircraft, I'm thinking the best policy is to put the drone on the ground and powered off as soon as possible. If not to minimize the risk of hampering operations, at least to minimize the chance of having to interact with FAA and law enforcement agencies.

 

[wardtom084]

What was the approximate altitude of the helo when it passed over your drone at 53 feet above the home point?

Was only looking at him so would have to guess 300 to 400 feet high and a couple hundred feet away.

 

[Capt KO]

I get nearby aircraft warnings often being on a Coast Guard flight path to the Gulf. I usually just ground my drone ASAP and return to flying once they pass (directly overhead)..but haven’t had a night experience yet. They usually pass by around 500’ so they are certainly noticeable, and loud. You did right by them..imo.

 

[wardtom084]

I get nearby aircraft warnings often being on a Coast Guard flight path to the Gulf. I usually just ground my drone ASAP and return to flying once they pass (directly overhead)..but haven’t had a night experience yet. They usually pass by around 500’ so they are certainly noticeable, and loud. You did right by them..imo.

Well yes and no. What might work during the day (does not even see me) is a total different point it would seem to the FAA that I should have just grounded. That is not quite what the rules say. I hate things that are not black and white.

 

[MS Coast]

How far is "not all that close to the air ambulance?"

The pilot would be able to see the strobe at a mile or more, but he was able to identify the strobe as being on a drone. Was he guessing or was it close enough for him to actually see the drone?

 

[wardtom084]

How far is "not all that close to the air ambulance?"

The pilot would be able to see the strobe at a mile or more, but he was able to identify the strobe as being on a drone. Was he guessing or was it close enough for him to actually see the drone?

According to measurements with google earth. I stopped and took a pix at .28 miles as I new his engine was shut down. When I hear him start the engines I moved back to home which put me .68 miles from the base. 10:30 pm he would have just seen the strobes. Several seconds later the first ADS-B warning.

 

[BigAl07]

Well yes and no. What might work during the day (does not even see me) is a total different point it would seem to the FAA that I should have just grounded. That is not quite what the rules say. I hate things that are not black and white.

You ABSOLUTELY should have landed it. Keep in mind the pilot of the Helo has no idea what your experience level is, training level, and no clue what your INTENTIONS are. Merely seeing a UAS will often cause a manned to abort the flight and re-route to another location.

If you took off AFTER knowing the MediVac was in the area that's even worse but immediately landing is the RIGHT thing to do regardless of the regulations.

Let me put 2 "final thoughts" out there to ponder/discuss:

• 1) How would you feel if one of our Loved Ones was waiting on Live Saving assistance from that Air Ambulance or if they were onboard and the aircraft aborted? This could literally be LIFE OR DEATH and not just a golden Photo Opp!
• 2) You say you hate things not in Black & White... careful what you ask for. Our Govt loves to Over Regulate and if given the authority you could be regulated (in black and white) to not flying UAS every again. Regulations is a very slippery slope and if we all exercised more Common Sense we wouldn't need many of our current regulations.
• 3) Aviation is all about What-If and Risk Mitigation.... What-If you had some strange Loss of Signal event and your aircraft went into RTH. Is you RTH height low enough to NOT get into the estimated flight altitude of the helo? Once again, the Manned Pilot has no clue and has to act/react as if it's Life or Death (and it is) . . .

This was one of those situations where, "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it." Think BIG PICTURE and well outside of the box.

 

[wardtom084]

Lets try something. You will see the pad to the S.E. of point B. Kind of a red square with two white marks to the left. I was only this close after he left the area. Where I was hovering and took the pix was to the west below the 90% in an arrow point down. You will see I back up and head for home.

 

[wardtom084]

You ABSOLUTELY should have landed it. Keep in mind the pilot of the Helo has no idea what your experience level is, training level, and no clue what your INTENTIONS are. Merely seeing a UAS will often cause a manned to abort the flight and re-route to another location.

If you took off AFTER knowing the MediVac was in the area that's even worse but immediately landing is the RIGHT thing to do regardless of the regulations.

Let me put 2 "final thoughts" out there to ponder/discuss:

• 1) How would you feel if one of our Loved Ones was waiting on Live Saving assistance from that Air Ambulance or if they were onboard and the aircraft aborted? This could literally be LIFE OR DEATH and not just a golden Photo Opp!
• 2) You say you hate things not in Black & White... careful what you ask for. Our Govt loves to Over Regulate and if given the authority you could be regulated (in black and white) to not flying UAS every again. Regulations is a very slippery slope and if we all exercised more Common Sense we wouldn't need many of our current regulations.
• 3) Aviation is all about What-If and Risk Mitigation.... What-If you had some strange Loss of Signal event and your aircraft went into RTH. Is you RTH height low enough to NOT get into the estimated flight altitude of the helo? Once again, the Manned Pilot has no clue and has to act/react as if it's Life or Death (and it is) . . .

This was one of those situations where, "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it." Think BIG PICTURE and well outside of the box.

Good points thanks. May be at the air show in Andrews sat. Would like to meet you some time.

 

[BigAl07]

Good points thanks. May be at the air show in Andrews sat. Would like to meet you some time.

Absolutely. I have a previous engagement here in Waynesville Saturday or I would try and make the drive over.

 

[wardtom084]

Absolutely. I have a previous engagement here in Waynesville Saturday or I would try and make the drive over.

Make the drive over ??! You are suppose to fly over.

 

[FLDave]

In my opinion this is a lot more than just about another aircraft. It was dark and the flight at one time was 3,800 feet from home; this is well beyond VLOS aircraft control in daylight. At night it would be highly unlikely to control the aircraft. Furthermore, this is a residential or business area where there are no easy landing areas, even in daytime. At nighttime there would have been little options for safe landing.
There are also details missing by the OP.
In my opinion it was an ill-advised flight from the start with no good options for emergency landing or to evaluate proximity of manned aircraft. The flight at one time even got a warning possible altitude of near 400 feet ATL.

 

[wardtom084]

In my opinion this is a lot more than just about another aircraft. It was dark and the flight at one time was 3,800 feet from home; this is well beyond VLOS aircraft control in daylight. At night it would be highly unlikely to control the aircraft. Furthermore, this is a residential or business area where there are no easy landing areas, even in daytime. At nighttime there would have been little options for safe landing.
There are also details missing by the OP.
In my opinion it was an ill-advised flight from the start with no good options for emergency landing or to evaluate proximity of manned aircraft. The flight at one time even got a warning possible altitude of near 400 feet ATL.

Home distance was just over 2k so don't know what you see. Mountain area here could have been at 430 easy. I am at 500 at times.

 

[FLDave]

At about 7 minutes AirData shows over 3,000 feet from home, well beyond VLOS for daylight visual control.
I wasn't there to see details so my comments relate the night flying over a residential area with no safe options for emergency landing.

 

[dronerdave]

In my opinion it was an ill-advised flight from the start with no good options for emergency landing or to evaluate proximity of manned aircraft.

Myself I also would just look at it as if something was to go wrong, what could happen. Would I be able to avoid any issues with people or property on the ground or in the air? Just my opinion but I'd never fly the route the OP showed day or night. Not saying the OP's flight is in compliance or not... I just try to mitigate safety procedures to fall in my favor.
I doubt I'd ditch my drone unless absolutely necessary, but at minimum would lower to a (more) safe altitude. Around populated areas the chances of a drone failure is something I consider prior to launching. So, if I couldn't safely land or move to a lower altitude to avoid manned aircraft because the area is populated, my operating distance from home point and flight path would reflect that.

 

[dart106]

You ABSOLUTELY should have landed it. Keep in mind the pilot of the Helo has no idea what your experience level is, training level, and no clue what your INTENTIONS are. Merely seeing a UAS will often cause a manned to abort the flight and re-route to another location.

If you took off AFTER knowing the MediVac was in the area that's even worse but immediately landing is the RIGHT thing to do regardless of the regulations.

Let me put 2 "final thoughts" out there to ponder/discuss:

• 1) How would you feel if one of our Loved Ones was waiting on Live Saving assistance from that Air Ambulance or if they were onboard and the aircraft aborted? This could literally be LIFE OR DEATH and not just a golden Photo Opp!
• 2) You say you hate things not in Black & White... careful what you ask for. Our Govt loves to Over Regulate and if given the authority you could be regulated (in black and white) to not flying UAS every again. Regulations is a very slippery slope and if we all exercised more Common Sense we wouldn't need many of our current regulations.
• 3) Aviation is all about What-If and Risk Mitigation.... What-If you had some strange Loss of Signal event and your aircraft went into RTH. Is you RTH height low enough to NOT get into the estimated flight altitude of the helo? Once again, the Manned Pilot has no clue and has to act/react as if it's Life or Death (and it is) . . .

This was one of those situations where, "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it." Think BIG PICTURE and well outside of the box.

Well said. Good judgement can’t be legislated or regulated, even though government entities will try their hardest to do so.

 

[Eagle Eye 62]

Well said. Good judgement can’t be legislated or regulated, even though government entities will try their hardest to do so.

My fear is that questionable incidents like this will only increase the level of regulation and limit an already limited ability for pilots to fly in many areas where they could be flown safely, for commercial purposes. I think there needs to be different rules for commercial vs. recreational pilots. It is indeed a slippery slope and my fear is things will continue to get even more restrictive in the future.

 

[Baredogs]

You ABSOLUTELY should have landed it. Keep in mind the pilot of the Helo has no idea what your experience level is, training level, and no clue what your INTENTIONS are. Merely seeing a UAS will often cause a manned to abort the flight and re-route to another location.

If you took off AFTER knowing the MediVac was in the area that's even worse but immediately landing is the RIGHT thing to do regardless of the regulations.

Let me put 2 "final thoughts" out there to ponder/discuss:

• 1) How would you feel if one of our Loved Ones was waiting on Live Saving assistance from that Air Ambulance or if they were onboard and the aircraft aborted? This could literally be LIFE OR DEATH and not just a golden Photo Opp!
• 2) You say you hate things not in Black & White... careful what you ask for. Our Govt loves to Over Regulate and if given the authority you could be regulated (in black and white) to not flying UAS every again. Regulations is a very slippery slope and if we all exercised more Common Sense we wouldn't need many of our current regulations.
• 3) Aviation is all about What-If and Risk Mitigation.... What-If you had some strange Loss of Signal event and your aircraft went into RTH. Is you RTH height low enough to NOT get into the estimated flight altitude of the helo? Once again, the Manned Pilot has no clue and has to act/react as if it's Life or Death (and it is) . . .

This was one of those situations where, "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it." Think BIG PICTURE and well outside of the box.

I was constructing an answer to the original question when I read this reply, and long story short … I completely agree with this person’s explanation. That pilot who is performing a service has no clue if you are smart or stupid and if you know what you’re doing, and you as the person flying the drone has a responsibility to not intentionally instigate what could be a hazardous situation. Thanks to BigA107.

 

[FLDave]

The VLOS rule is the same for both and it's much less than this pilot used.