Help Requesting FAA Clearance

[Acrawford56]

Hey everyone,

I'm still a fairly new sUAS pilot. I've been studying to take my 107 test and hopefully will have it soon!! Anyway, I'm located in the Dallas area and am wanting to try and do some shots over the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge sometime (west of downtown Dallas, south of DAL). I'm having a little bit of a hard time reading the sectional chart for the Dallas area. To my understanding from what I'm seeing, I'd only need to request clearance from DAL - Dallas Love Field right? Can anyone assist and just make sure I'm doing it the right way?

Thanks for any kind of insight!!

 

[sar104]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Under Part 107 the all that matters is class of airspace, not proximity to airports. There is no 5-mile rule. The location you describe is in DFW surface Class B airspace, and close to the 31R centerline. That's going to require FAA authorization or waiver via the LAANC process. It's in a 100 ft ceiling authorization block, so you may not be able to get the photos that you want.

 

[brett8883]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Under Part 107 the all that matters is class of airspace, not proximity to airports. There is no 5-mile rule. The location you describe is in DFW surface Class B airspace, and close to the 31R centerline. That's going to require FAA authorization or waiver via the LAANC process. It's in a 100 ft ceiling authorization block, so you may not be able to get the photos that you want.

But he is saying that he is not yet a 107 pilot. If the pictures are being taken for recreational purposes then wouldn’t it be correct that if the area is within 5 miles of the airport then he can call ATC to give notice?

 

[BD0G]

Seems correct. It is my understanding that Part 107 Pilot's can also "opt" to fly a flight as a hobbyist if they so choose. I may not be 100 percent correct on that though.

 

[sar104]

But he is saying that he is not yet a 107 pilot. If the pictures are being taken for recreational purposes then wouldn’t it be correct that if the area is within 5 miles of the airport then he can call ATC to give notice?

Seems correct. It is my understanding that Part 107 Pilot's can also "opt" to fly a flight as a hobbyist if they so choose. I may not be 100 percent correct on that though.

That's trickier if he meant flying under Part 101. The FAA website previously stated (with dubious basis in law since it isn't mentioned in Part 101) that recreational flight in Class B airspace required specific coordination and permission from ATC, rather than just a 5-mile notification requirement.

"Recreational operators are required to give notice for flights within five miles of an airport to both the airport operator and air traffic control tower, if the airport has a tower. However, recreational operations are not permitted in Class B airspace around most major airports without specific air traffic permission and coordination."​

They have amended that page and now do not mention Class B for recreational flight, so perhaps that's good enough (again) until the new airspace restrictions on recreational flight are codified.

 

[brett8883]

That's trickier if he meant flying under Part 101. The FAA website previously stated (with dubious basis in law since it isn't mentioned in Part 101) that recreational flight in Class B airspace required specific coordination and permission from ATC, rather than just a 5-mile notification requirement.

"Recreational operators are required to give notice for flights within five miles of an airport to both the airport operator and air traffic control tower, if the airport has a tower. However, recreational operations are not permitted in Class B airspace around most major airports without specific air traffic permission and coordination."​

They have amended that page and now do not mention Class B for recreational flight, so perhaps that's good enough (again) until the new airspace restrictions on recreational flight are codified.

I think we can all agree there’s nothing wrong with calling ATC in Class B airspace in an attempt to get “authorization” rather than just give notice.

 

[sar104]

I think we can all agree there’s nothing wrong with calling ATC in Class B airspace in an attempt to get “authorization” rather than just give notice.

In this case that would be DFW ATC. They are not going to give authorization, especially for recreational flight.

 

[kadras]

For more information, here are a couple of clips from the FAA Dallas-Ft Worth Helicopter Route Chart. The bridge is the one just to the west/left of the Reunion Tower label.

 

[brett8883]

In this case that would be DFW ATC. They are not going to give authorization, especially for recreational flight.

They might have an email address the op can send a notice to. At Salt Lake International that’s how they handle these.

Why wouldn’t they give authorization? He doesn’t need to be that high to film the bridge. If this is the case then the whole system is [Language Removed by Moderator]

 

[nick007]

But he is saying that he is not yet a 107 pilot. If the pictures are being taken for recreational purposes then wouldn’t it be correct that if the area is within 5 miles of the airport then he can call ATC to give notice?

I passed my 107 in December and I believe I recall from my course that you should just apply for your authorization through the FAAdroneZone portal and not even bother calling the control tower. Perhaps that's what they want you to do if your flying for recreation though, we need a drone lawyer up in here to clarify some of these questions

 

[sar104]

They might have an email address the op can send a notice to. At Salt Lake International that’s how they handle these.

Why wouldn’t they give authorization? He doesn’t need to be that high to film the bridge. If this is the case then the whole system is ******

Because the FAA has explicitly instructed ATC not to give authorization.

Page 6: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/JO_7200.23A_Unmanned_Aircraft_Systems_(UAS).pdf

Additionally, requesting permission for the specific purpose of taking photos of a bridge starts to sound a lot like a flight with non-recreational purpose.

 

[brett8883]

Because the FAA has explicitly instructed ATC not to give authorization.

Page 6: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/JO_7200.23A_Unmanned_Aircraft_Systems_(UAS).pdf

Additionally, requesting permission for the specific purpose of taking photos of a bridge starts to sound a lot like a flight with non-recreational purpose.

So wait I don’t understand. The FAA’s rules state that a 101 pilot(or whatever they are calling it these days) should notify ATC about operations within 5 miles of an airport but the FAA is also telling ATC to deny any requests for authorization?

Are you making the point about the difference between giving “notice” and obtaining “authorization”? In which case would you be able to explain the practical differences please? It would seem safer for 101 pilots to obtain authorization rather than just give notice.

 

[sar104]

So wait I don’t understand. The FAA’s rules state that a 101 pilot(or whatever they are calling it these days) should notify ATC about operations within 5 miles of an airport but the FAA is also telling ATC to deny any requests for authorization?

Are you making the point about the difference between giving “notice” and obtaining “authorization”? In which case would you be able to explain the practical differences please? It would seem safer for 101 pilots to obtain authorization rather than just give notice.

You saw the document - I don't think that there is any ambiguity. The practical difference is that you cannot (if ATC follows FAA instructions) call an airport and request authorization to fly under either Part 101 or Part 107. Under the recreational 5-mile notification requirement you would call KDAL, but it's not their Class B airspace. KDFW is over 5 miles away, but owns the Class B.

 

[brett8883]

You saw the document - I don't think that there is any ambiguity. The practical difference is that you cannot (if ATC follows FAA instructions) call an airport and request authorization to fly under either Part 101 or Part 107. Under the recreational 5-mile notification requirement you would call KDAL, but it's not their Class B airspace. KDFW is over 5 miles away, but owns the Class B.

It’s 25 pages so I might have missed something but I did find this.

CHAPTER 3. PART 101, SUBPART E OPERATIONS
1. ATC services. ATC services, inclusive of separation, are not provided to Part 101, Subpart E
operators (also known as modelers/hobbyists).
2. Notification. Part 101 operators are required to notify the airport and ATCT, if one is operational when operating within 5 statute miles of the airport.
a. When notified of Part 101 operations that pose no hazard:
(1) Acknowledge the notification.
(2) Do not use the word “approved” in the communication with the operator.
b. If the facility determines that the operation would endanger the safety of the national airspace
system:
(1) Deny the operation.
(2) State the reason for denial.

Is this what you are talking about? So practically speaking if you call and they acknowledge your notice you are ok to fly. If they deny your notice then you are not ok to fly?

I still don’t understand why they can’t say the word “approved” but I’ll read the notice you attached more throughly when I get home. Thanks for that btw. That’s a gem!

 

[Grimm]

I am a licensed part 107 pilot in DFW. The Love Field airspace has a unique issue, in that their class B airspace co-exists with DFW class B. The FAA has not resolved this issue as of yet, so LAANC for this area is not available as of right now. Our chief pilot had to apply for a waiver in order for our pilots to legally fly in this airspace. The FAA is working on this issue, but no timetable on when this will be completed.

 

[jacquespa]

I think we can all agree there’s nothing wrong with calling ATC in Class B airspace in an attempt to get “authorization” rather than just give notice.

I called my local ATC when I thought I would be flying near the 8NM Class B area for PHL. They told me it was okay to fly in class B and only needed to call the ATC if I would be within 5SM of the airport. Doesn't make sense that I can fly as a hobbyist but not Part 107. Hopefully there will be some clarification when the rules are updated.

 

[brett8883]

I called my local ATC when I thought I would be flying near the 8NM Class B area for PHL. They told me it was okay to fly in class B and only needed to call the ATC if I would be within 5SM of the airport. Doesn't make sense that I can fly as a hobbyist but not Part 107. Hopefully there will be some clarification when the rules are updated.

You are right it doesn’t make sense but that’s what it is. Part 107 have LAANC which is probably more convenient though.

 

[Rafiky]

Hey everyone,

I'm still a fairly new sUAS pilot. I've been studying to take my 107 test and hopefully will have it soon!! Anyway, I'm located in the Dallas area and am wanting to try and do some shots over the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge sometime (west of downtown Dallas, south of DAL). I'm having a little bit of a hard time reading the sectional chart for the Dallas area. To my understanding from what I'm seeing, I'd only need to request clearance from DAL - Dallas Love Field right? Can anyone assist and just make sure I'm doing it the right way?

Thanks for any kind of insight!!

Since you are in the process of getting your 107, I’ll share this video with you and is all you need. In reciprocity, if you find out the process to be followed by hobbyists (FAA Part 101E), please share. Just like you I’m a responsible flyer who wants to follow the rules and be in compliance. I just can’t find a coherent explanation of a process to follow if one doesn’t have the 107 and just wants to fly for fun.

 

[brett8883]

Since you are in the process of getting your 107, I’ll share this video with you and is all you need. In reciprocity, if you find out the process to be followed by hobbyists (FAA Part 101E), please share. Just like you I’m a responsible flyer who wants to follow the rules and be in compliance. I just can’t find a coherent explanation of a process to follow if one doesn’t have the 107 and just wants to fly for fun.

We figured it out above.

Call ATC if flying within 5 miles of an airport with a control tower and also the airport itself. If no control tower call airport.

Be prepared to give them your:
Name
Phone #
GPS cordinates of the area you will be flying
The altitude you will be flying at
FAA#
Time and duration of your flight.

If they acknowledge your flight then you are good to fly. If they deny your request you are not good to fly but they will tell you why and if they don’t ask. They will probably work with you and let you know how you can modify the flight to get their acknowledgment. This is for part 101 flyers only

 

[brett8883]

I should say @sar104 told us with documentation to back it up and that’s when I figured it out.