How low are aircraft allowed to fly?

[mrgadway]

Today I was outside working in my garage when I suddenly heard an airplane but couldn't see it until it popped up from trees about 1/8 mile from my house. I grabbed my phone and quickly checked my flightaware app. I saw it show an elevation only 275 ft above where I fly from my house. This is a rural area that I fly from a lot and frequently at or above what this airplane was at but under 400 ft agl. This was a twin engine airplane and was moving very quickly. I hope I could have gotten out of it's way by going full down on my controls if I was flying by due to the trees etc it would have been difficult to judge until I saw the airplane at the last moment. I certainly wouldn't have hesitated to go full down if I had been flying my drone but was curious if aircraft can fly this low legally? Thanks!

 

[Dougcjohn]

I’m impressed you got the FlightAware app open so quickly!

To my knowledge if no other situation, minimal altitude has been 500 ft for USA.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/lgb/local_more/media/FAA_Guide_to_Low-Flying_Aircraft.pdf

 

[db4476]

I’m impressed you got the FlightAware app open so quickly!

To my knowledge if no other situation, minimal altitude has been 500 ft for USA.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/lgb/local_more/media/FAA_Guide_to_Low-Flying_Aircraft.pdf

Exactly. 500' min AGL in general...

• 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes; general o Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes: (a) Anywhere -An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface. (b) Over congested areas -Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open-air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. (c) Over other than congested areas - An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure. (d) Helicopters - Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed In paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

Cheers!

 

[Paint Rock Drones]

Not quite right. The key section is "Over other than congested areas - An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." So a crewed aircraft can fly as low as they want over a deserted beach, or over a lake. But put a person on the beach or a boat in the lake and the plane now needs to stay 500 feet away from the person or boat (picture a 500 foot bubble around the person/structure). So if the plane was really 275 feet above your house, no good. But if they were 275 feet high and 500 feet away, they were OK (unless they flew over you).

 

[mrgadway]

So I was able to track the registration. N91gf. Which is new mexico game and fish. My house is 5935 asl. Flight aware showed 6200 asl. I had my phone about 10 ft away. Flight aware app is one of my go to apps. But since there is always a time lag I could get Flight level . You can enter this registration number and see Flight path. They went from Farmington new mexico to Santa Fe around noon today. I've never seen data on a plane fly this low where I live. Kinda of scary if you ask me. Because I live in a canyon about 1 mile wide sound becomes confusing and a 4 lane highway is just west of my house. Only about 400 ft max from me.

 

[mrgadway]

Not quite right. The key section is "Over other than congested areas - An altitude of 500 feet above the surface except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In that case, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure." So a crewed aircraft can fly as low as they want over a deserted beach, or over a lake. But put a person on the beach or a boat in the lake and the plane now needs to stay 500 feet away from the person or boat (picture a 500 foot bubble around the person/structure). So if the plane was really 275 feet above your house, no good. But if they were 275 feet high and 500 feet away, they were OK (unless they flew over you).

No they did not fly directly over me but just south east of me. The elevation delta from where I fly to them still under 300 ft.

 

[Dougcjohn]

So does a house or housing neighborhood classify as a deserted beach, unoccupied or "congested area"? I would consider a housing area (not sure where the OP lives, single home in country or neighborhood) would require a 500 Ft altitude over the entire housing neighborhood, not just his home property.

 

[mrgadway]

So does a house or housing neighborhood classify as a deserted beach, unoccupied or "congested area"? I would consider a housing area (not sure where the OP lives, single home in country or neighborhood) would require a 500 Ft altitude over the entire housing neighborhood, not just his home property.

36.97073, -107.88240, definitely rural. Maybe one house per 2 acres at most, more like one per 10 acres. The government plane was flying up the animas River south of Durango Colorado from aztec nm and did a 180 turn after crossing the state border and went back to Santa Fe. In the summer, I have seen ultra lights , hang gliders and lower flying military planes in this area. Nothing this low though! I'm just wondering if this is something I can expect in the future or was this guy too low.

 

[Meta4]

I certainly wouldn't have hesitated to go full down if I had been flying my drone but was curious if aircraft can fly this low legally?

As shown in the rules quoted in post #3, there are plenty of situations where planes can legally fly lower than 500 ft.
It's a common misconception that they will always be above 500 ft.

 

[Etdronehome]

36.97073, -107.88240, definitely rural. Maybe one house per 2 acres at most, more like one per 10 acres. The government plane was flying up the animas River south of Durango Colorado from aztec nm and did a 180 turn after crossing the state border and went back to Santa Fe. In the summer, I have seen ultra lights , hang gliders and lower flying military planes in this area. Nothing this low though! I'm just wondering if this is something I can expect in the future or was this guy too low.

You could contact them and politely express your safety concern.

Google reveals a listing of offices or this is main website

NMDGF - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish

Conserving New Mexico’s wildlife for future generations. Hunting, Fishing, OHV, Recreation, Conservation, Education, Enforcement, and Game Commission news.

www.wildlife.state.nm.us

 

[JoelP]

I live near the San Jose foothills. There are hiking trails near my home into these foothills. I was surprised to see planes only about 100-150 feet above one ridge as I hiked there. I asked a friend who is a flight instructor if that was illegal. She told me that this was unpopulated land and that it was common for pilots heading to the class D Reid Hillview airport to try to fly just under the San Jose class C airspace. That is only possible if one flys low to that ridge. It pays to understand the airspace where you are flying to anticipate such possibilities.

 

[benhuntn]

The military operates VR and IR routes throughout the country for low level training. If you live under one of these routes you could see aircraft as low as 100’.

 

[Ralph thompson]

And beware of ultralights who often skim tree tops or gliders who may have lost their lift. As said above, you need to understand your airspace and have a chat with a local operator.

 

[CaseyK]

I live in an agriculture area of California one mile from an active crop duster business. During active spraying time they go over my house regularly at an altitude below 400 ft. I introduced my self at the business and asked what elevation they fly at when traveling to the various jobs. The man really didn't have a definitive answer. He gave me permission to fly at the end of the runway with other RC flyers. His planes do not give off a signal as it costs money. He was not concerned about me flying in the neighborhood. It was a nice visit but I didn't get the answers I had hoped for. So to make it short I will drop as soon as I hear them.

 

[Clintoops]

I had one airplane flying 100 feet off the tree line the faa had a talk with him . Now when I see him he is at flying a lot higher.

 

[Vic Moss]

I live in an agriculture area of California one mile from an active crop duster business. During active spraying time they go over my house regularly at an altitude below 400 ft. I introduced my self at the business and asked what elevation they fly at when traveling to the various jobs. The man really didn't have a definitive answer. He gave me permission to fly at the end of the runway with other RC flyers.

Not sure why he thought he had the authority to give or deny you permission to fly at the end of the runway. There are only two authorities at play here. First, if you're on airport property, the airport manager (f there is one) can give you permission to fly from airport property. The second person who has the authority to give you airspace permission is ATC.

Your profile says you live North of Yuba City. I'm not sure where exactly, but if you put your address (or the address you're flying at) here: ArcGIS Web Application, you can see if you really need permission of not. And if you do, just use LAANC (Airmap or Aloft). If you live outside the E2 airspace of KMYV, all you need to do is "see and avoid" other aircraft. That includes the crop sprayers.

His planes do not give off a signal as it costs money. He was not concerned about me flying in the neighborhood. It was a nice visit but I didn't get the answers I had hoped for. So to make it short I will drop as soon as I hear them.

 

[CaseyK]

Not sure why he thought he had the authority to give or deny you permission to fly at the end of the runway......

Because he owns the air field and mentioned he has given permission to RC owners that they could fly and land at the end of his runway. There are no restrictions with in miles of where I live. I was merely introducing myself and hoped I could get an answer to the elevation his planes are flying for safety reasons.
I know the rules!

 

[Vic Moss]

Because he owns the air field and mentioned he has given permission to RC owners that they could fly and land at the end of his runway. There are no restrictions with in miles of where I live. I was merely introducing myself and hoped I could get an answer to the elevation his planes are flying for safety reasons.
I know the rules!

If you're flying on his property, then yes, he has the authority to permit or deny. I wasn't sure from your post if your were. No offense intended. Just looking for clairifacation.

 

[Dbez1]

Just throwing this out there…it’s my understanding that in an emergency situation, drone pilots are allowed to fly above 400’ to avoid a collision if there’s not time to drop to a safe altitude. Having said that, I’ve never heard of anyone needing to do this. However, had the OP been flying when the plane came through, it seems like this might be an option.

 

[JDH3]

I live in a congested area ,yellow coded on a sectional chart. There is a red Cessna that flies barely 50 ft over the tree lines over my house at least once a week. The trees in my back yard are 135-150ft high. This guy is clearing them by barely 50 feet if he is lucky. I rarely fly very high in my neighborhood just to not annoy my neighbors but I sometimes like to peak up and take a few shots of my home. I can't imagine what would happen if this idiot is flying in the way he does. He is so low that there is barely any noise before he is overhead then suddenly appearing out of the trees sounding like a Harley shaking my windows in the frames. The closest private airport is 8 miles away. There is no way he is making an approach to land. He is over my house so quickly I can never get a photo of his tail number. What's the best way to track this plane down? Is this reportable to the FAA?

Drones get reported daily for not following safe practices. I always yield or get out the sky when I hear a manned aircraft but this is crazy. Even though I am part 107 certified I know 100% that if there was some type of collision the media would blame the UAS pilot but at what point is it the manned aircrafts fault. There has to be a line somewhere. I go out of my way not to annoy people from the noise of the UAS, but this guy can shake the windows off every house in the neighborhood and no one bats an eye. If he lost power there is no where for him to go, if he is lucky and could glide 1-2 miles he may reach a lake, but at sub 200 feet I don't think its even possible.