Litchi - "Unloved by its maker"?

[Facherty]

In another thread in this series (Modifying Litchi mission On The Go) I suggested that:
"Litchi appears to be unloved by its makers, but it has helped me (a) enjoy using my drone safely, and (b) produce some reasonable films (see www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXAHTNJ9704 for example)."
@VLL quoted the "unloved by its makers" remark, then reasonably asked, "How so?", so I thought I would have a go at answering...

Firstly, I would say that that I do most of my drone flying using Litchi, so certainly do not hate it. Secondly, in a previous thread I was informed that Litchi seems well-supported to FaceBook users - I do not use FaceBook, so cannot confirm, but believe it to be true. Thirdly, I mainly use Litchi for Waypoint missions.

However, my reasons for feeling that Litchi seems like a largely abandoned project are:

• features development - in the 14 months since I got my Mavic Air in March 2019, there have been six updates to Litchi (What's new - Litchi). Most of these relate to bug fixes or hardware support, with only minor new features added (for example, we can now zoom a map or start a mission from a different waypoint)
• ongoing work - the last update to Litchi was six months ago (November 2019) - no possible innovations they could make in this time?
• flight preview - the best recent development in Litchi is not even Litchi's! Thanks to the work of keen colleagues on community websites like ours we are able to get a reasonable prediction of our missions using Google Earth. This could have been earlier or better if the maker got involved?
• supports slightly dangerous or counter-intuitive practices - for example, if editing a Waypoint mission using the app, adding a waypoint between two previous waypoints set at 50m above ground level adds a point with no reference to ground level. Counter intuitive and dangerous
• easy stuff seems hard - when planning a mission I concentrate on the Points of Interest; they are why I am flying. For some reason these cannot be named or even renumbered. How much effort would it be to allow the user to label PoIs as "My House", "Reservoir Inlet" or some such? This seems like a basic level of programming, even with a web browser...
• gimbal pitch and heading - a common complaint within these and other forums is that Litchi does not achieve what we hope - that the Points of Interest stays in the centre of the frame as the aircraft path curves. There are established workarounds, that simply involve adding further waypoints on the patch around the PoI, but they shouldn't be necessary - the program's maker should take responsibility for this, or at least listen to customer feedback
• jargon - the naming of concepts is confusing (Interpolate, TNW, WD, ID), and the website's user interface does not support pop-up expansions when it could
• poor documentation - for example, in (Help - Litchi) there is a brief description of Cable Cam. It has no examples, no pictures of screen use and no diagrams; this seems complacent and unprofessional. Compare this with the effort that Dronelink has made with documents, sample videos and and instructional videos
• the User Guide - so poor is the user guide, someone else who posts on this website has re-written their manual to make it acceptable
• suggesting features - there is no way on their website for Litchi-customers to provide feedback - in fact no email address is given at all. Again, I want to use Dronelink as a comparison; not only do they welcome suggestions from customers, they evaluate those suggestions publicly, track progress on implementation and only close the issue when there is a resolution.
• clumsy filing system - the Mission Hub's web-based file manager does not allow renaming missions or effective grouping (i.e. folders), and does not show “Date Created” or “Date Modified” - again, this should not be a difficult task
• ]mission editing - with no support for copy and paste in the mission editor, you simply cannot take the best part of two separate missions and combine them in a new mission. At least one of the elements will have to be written again.
• No-Go Areas - it is reasonable for Litchi to rely on other databases for general flying hazard warnings, but there is no real reason why the user should not be able to specify further restrictions - for example, I do not want to fly within 20 metres of a certain electricity pylon. The Mission Hub interface is, after all, a map that allows the user to navigate three dimensional space; why not help make it safer for users who are familiar with the greatest risks?

I would love to be wrong, but Litchi has all the looks of a product without support. This does not mean that I will abandon it, and I will continue to recommend it when the opportunity arises.

 

[begin111]

I joined the forum just to reply to your thread which I found very useful and informative so thanks for taking the time to explain your thinking.

I'm just weighing up whether to purchase Litchi, or look at drone link - I'm only a hobbyist at the moment - or decide if the DJI Fly app is good enough for right now and wait for Maven to come on android!

I wondered, @Facherty , if you don't mind, what your impressions of Litchi are now after 2 years since you wrote this post?

 

[Meta4]

I wondered, @Facherty , if you don't mind, what your impressions of Litchi are now after 2 years since you wrote this post?

That's an odd, old post you found.
Litchi is much loved by it's creators and thousands of users.
It's a superb program for waypoint flying.

 

[Cymru]

What isn't helping Litchi currently is DJIs refusal to release SDKs for the newer drones in any sort of timeframe.
Very slow with the Air2s rollout, still none for the Mavic 3 (or mini etc).
They can't add new drones or support until that comes out.
(And given how awful DJI Fly is, the market for a proper control app is likely more now than ever before!).

 

[begin111]

That's an odd, old post you found.
Litchi is much loved by it's creators and thousands of users.
It's a superb program for waypoint flying.

"Odd post", how?! I found his post very informative and it helped me make a buying decision, that's not to say that the app isn't great though for all the people who have it.

I believe this guy, in good faith, just gave his opinion on some specific points related to using the app, so I'm just asking if he thinks things have improved in the 2 years since he wrote it. Not sure how that is odd, and it's because it was 2 years ago I asked if he felt things had been improved. A lot can change in the software space in two years!

From my point of view, based on the points he raised, it makes me think to not purchase it and stick with the DJI Fly app. Just saying the app is "loved by the creators and people that use the app", and it's "superb", is equal to marketing I can get from the Litchi website, so doesn't really help me gain any deeper insight into confirming or denying the issues he raised, or if they were valid, if they have been addressed.

I do like what I've seen in the marketing for the app but if some of the points the OP made are still valid then it wouldn't be for me.

 

[begin111]

What isn't helping Litchi currently is DJIs refusal to release SDKs for the newer drones in any sort of timeframe.
Very slow with the Air2s rollout, still none for the Mavic 3 (or mini etc).
They can't add new drones or support until that comes out.
(And given how awful DJI Fly is, the market for a proper control app is likely more now than ever before!).

I probably should have specified I'm flying the Mini 2, so I believe they have the SDK for that, hence the support for it? (I'm not au fait with this stuff).

I do sympathise with Litchi though on the point you raised, but communications and feedback from the user base is pretty important in my eyes so if they're not very good with that, it's a big turn-off for me. The post is two years old though, so that's why I was wondering if things have improved.

 

[Cymru]

Mini 2 has the SDK so does work with Litchi.
The problem being without the SDK nothing can work with it. The flagship Mavic 3 STILL doesnt have an SDK for example even now. So the makers of Litchi currently are stuck and unable to support newer model drones.

 

[Facherty]

@begin111 Thanks for the opportunity to reconsider these comments, and I want to start by saying Litchi remains my “go to” app for my Mavic Air. (I have since bought a Mavic Mini SE, and, in Europe, Litchi is almost useless for that drone: the lack of radio power makes the “virtual sticks” method useless.)
In my original post, you will see a YouTube reference to a film I made actively promoting the use Litchi. Therefore I agree with @Meta4: Litchi isa superb program for waypoint flying.
However, reviewing the points from the original post:

• features development and ongoing work- the only new significant developments that I can find in the last two years are support for the various new DJI models. “Virtual sticks” is a good workaround for DJI’s reluctance to allow programmed flight
• flight preview- no progress there. Thanks to @namirda we can use a Chrome extension to get an accurate preview of our missions via Google Earth - no thanks are due to Litchi, however
• supports slightly dangerous or counter-intuitive practices- the example given in my original post (adding a waypoint between two AGL waypoints) is still there. Also planning techniques used in the Mission Hub are different to those used in phone app
• easy stuff seems hard- again, no improvement in managing Points of Interest, a concept essential to programmed flying. It can’t be hard work to do this.
• gimbal pitch and heading- it is not unreasonable to expect Points of Interest to remain in the centre of the frame while the drone is flying past it. Not fixed.
• jargon- the website's user interface has not improved in any way in the last two years
• poor documentationand User Guide- no differences that I can find. In contrast, Dronelink is on its second, improved set of comprehensive support videos!
• clumsy filing system- given that Litchi force the user into the on-line storage of mission data, Mission Hub's web-based file management is poor. Renaming missions or using folders should be easy, perhaps alongside version management
• mission editing- we still cannot copy and paste in the mission editor, or combine two missions into one

I would have to say that it looks like a stagnant project.
I do not regret buying Litchi and use it every time I fly. As a one-off £25/€25/$25 purchase it has been excellent value for money. But perhaps that’s the problem - with no income stream, Litchi’s owners maybe cannot afford the staff to make (and test) improvements?

 

[begin111]

@begin111 Thanks for the opportunity to reconsider these comments, and I want to start by saying Litchi remains my “go to” app for my Mavic Air. (I have since bought a Mavic Mini SE, and, in Europe, Litchi is almost useless for that drone: the lack of radio power makes the “virtual sticks” method useless.)
In my original post, you will see a YouTube reference to a film I made actively promoting the use Litchi. Therefore I agree with @Meta4: Litchi isa superb program for waypoint flying....

Thank you for your updated thoughts, and yes I watched your video which was also informative. For me, flying in the UK with a mini 2 I think there isn't really much added benefit paying to get Litchi at this stage, when to get good footage of things I'd likely have to take over and manually adjust the drone anyway. I might as well stick to improving my manual flying skills while I'm at it. The one thing that may change my mind is the ability to capture hyper-lapses by using Litchi to fly very slowly between two points, but I'm not o bothered about that for now! Thank you very much and all the best.

 

[maelstrom]

What isn't helping Litchi currently is DJIs refusal to release SDKs for the newer drones in any sort of timeframe.

But even when the SDK is available, Litchi seems to take an inordinately long time to release updates for the newer drones compared to Maven and Dronelink.