M2P Hasselblad camera Image Quality?

[PC1134]

I'm finding RAW photos from my Mavic 2 Pro with it's Hasselblad lens and 1" sensor is giving me reasonable image quality, but nothing like that from my Sony RX10IV with it's Zeiss 24-600mm zoom and Sony 1" sensor. RAW images processed through Lightroom from both cameras (the Sony using its 24mm wide angle setting and the M2P using it's 20mm focal length.
The Sony is so good I have done a 1.5 x 1 metre wall print and the clarity and detail is giving smacking. I could never blow up the DJI to anywhere near that size.
Wondering if any one else taking photos has noticed a less than stellar image quality from this drone?
Thanks in advance,
Sean

 

[PC1134]

I'm finding RAW photos from my Mavic 2 Pro with it's Hasselblad lens and 1" sensor is giving me reasonable image quality, but nothing like that from my Sony RX10IV with it's Zeiss 24-600mm zoom and Sony 1" sensor. RAW images processed through Lightroom from both cameras (the Sony using its 24mm wide angle setting and the M2P using it's 20mm focal length.
The Sony is so good I have done a 1.5 x 1 metre wall print and the clarity and detail is giving smacking. I could never blow up the DJI to anywhere near that size.
Wondering if any one else taking photos has noticed a less than stellar image quality from this drone?
Thanks in advance,
Sean

That should have read 'gob-smacking '.

 

[Paul2660]

I wouldn't expect to see the same quality. Sony in the RX100 series can produce useable images up to ISO 800, I would never use the M2 Pro camera past ISO 100 unless really necessary. Personally even though the raw's exif show a "Hasselblad" camera, I doubt Hasselblad had anything to do with it, besides letting their owners DJI use the name on the camera".

A few considerations:

1. Stay at F 2.8 to max F4.
2. Bracket 5 shots. The sensor/camera can't take really any push in post without showing noise in shadows even
at Iso 100.
3. Consider using a different raw converter, ACR/LR IMO has a poor conversion, shows more noise than raw therapy
or Capture One. NOTE LR is forcing you to use the manufacturers lens profile info, C1 allows you to turn it off.
You may find that C1 generic lens profile will give you more details, albeit with considerably more distortion.
Distortion can be easily fixed, loss of detail harder
4. I turn off AFC always, use AF to hit subject target, then move to MF. I would not try using MF by itself to focus
unless you are close to subject 20 feet or less. The DJI go app doesn't allow for 100% view for Live View and
without being able to zoom to 100%, dialing in critical MF is hard to do, even with peaking.
5. I tend to use AF on the center of the subject, as focusing on on side of your subject can create one side
over the image being a bit soft.
6. More you aim up or down off center, the more distortion you will get and the the distortion is considerable.
ACR/LR correct for this using camera profile, with loss of edge details. I prefer a manual correction using
Capture One. Capture One IMO also has a clear overall raw conversion.
7. Keep your shutter speeds in the 1/60 to 1/2000 range if possible. Sure the camera will go slower, but there is no
IS or VR on the Drone and it's moving all the time slightly albeit this is masked by the gimbal, but just that slight
gimbal movement could be enough to create a blur.


As you can see from your Sony RX100 camera, the 1" sensor in actually has quite a good range, or it's easy to compare on sites like dpreview. The same sensor in the DJI family of Drones, P4 Pro, P4 Pro Vr 2 and M2 Pro has a much lower DR range, again ISO push is pretty worthless past 200.

In bright daylight, camera does great, but early am/late pm or cloudy days you really need to consider bracketing your raws, and work on them in post. Can be a lot of work, but results can be positive.

Paul C

 

[Dave Maine]

Not a fair comparison. The fact that they both have 1 inch sensors is largely meaningless. Sensor size matters mostly for noise performance. Sharpness is mostly related to pixel count and lens quality. The Sony has an image sensor with at least 75% more resolution.

 

[offtheback]

The M2P sensor is on the noisy side.20MP appears to have been chosen to give detail at the expense of noise.ICBW

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

The other point is the optics.

The Zeiss 24-600mm has a large zoom range. This means that the lens-element groupings inside the lens-housing have a LOT of compensating to do to try and keep edge to edge sharpness at both a) either end of the zoom range and b) at any aperture. Even this lens will perform better at certain points: a) closer to the center of the aperture range rather than wide-open or fully-closed, and b) better edge-sharpness / less vignetting at certain zoom ranges and aperture combos.

All of that means that the prime (non-zoom) Zeiss lens is going to get you a better image (sharpness, contrast, color retention, good bokeh / out-of-focus background elements) than a lens with such a HUGE zoom range with all of those compensating lens elements.

That said, today's zoom lenses are better than ever (ahh, technology) and I've seen some spectacular images from those full range zooms on a good camera..

Now for the lens on the Mavic. Just look at it. Imagine how sophisticated they can build the optics in that tiny little box (and I mean the non-zoom model). There is NO way it can touch the modern optical advances represented in that Zeiss zoom lens of yours. I had minor and misguided hopes when I first got it because it said Hasselblad, but I was not surprised in the least bit to find that it was not knocking my socks off.

Still, it's probably a much better camera / lens package than it was on my Phantom 3 Pro.

Chris

 

[Paul2660]

Not a fair comparison. The fact that they both have 1 inch sensors is largely meaningless. Sensor size matters mostly for noise performance. Sharpness is mostly related to pixel count and lens quality. The Sony has an image sensor with at least 75% more resolution.

Not sure what you mean by 75 percent more resolution. Sony rx100 cameras are 21mp. It’s the same sensor that’s in the P4 Pro and V2 and Mavic2 Pro. I am not aware of a 1 inch sensor with greater resolution currently. Sony gets much better DR out of the same sensor than DJI. DJI crops down the 1 inch sensor a bit.

Autel is claiming 48mp in their next follow on in a drone with the foot print of the Mavic 2. Not sure how they are getting there unless it’s something like DJI does with the 20mp. I have not read about any 48mp 1 inch sensor.

Fully agree current optics are a limitation in the Mavic 2 Pro. Big limitation.

The Inspire is the only DJI I am aware of that can really pull off good quality stills but it’s in a different price range, way to heavy to carry in the field, and very loud.

Paul C
Paul C

 

[Meta4]

Wondering if any one else taking photos has noticed a less than stellar image quality from this drone?

Yes .. the Sony is a better camera, like quite a few terrestrial cameras.
But shop around and see how much change you get from $20K if you want to be able to fly your Sony to get the shots you can get with the Mavic.
Aerial photography is full of compromises.

 

[Meta4]

Autel is claiming 48mp in their next follow on in a drone with the foot print of the Mavic 2. Not sure how they are getting there unless it’s something like DJI does with the 20mp. I have not read about any 48mp 1 inch sensor.

**HINT**
DJI already does it with the 12MP sensor in the M2 Zoom
They call it 48 MP Super Resolution Photo and it's just a stitched panorama marketing gimmick.

 

[PC1134]

I wouldn't expect to see the same quality. Sony in the RX100 series can produce useable images up to ISO 800, I would never use the M2 Pro camera past ISO 100 unless really necessary. Personally even though the raw's exif show a "Hasselblad" camera, I doubt Hasselblad had anything to do with it, besides letting their owners DJI use the name on the camera".

A few considerations:

1. Stay at F 2.8 to max F4.
2. Bracket 5 shots. The sensor/camera can't take really any push in post without showing noise in shadows even
at Iso 100.
3. Consider using a different raw converter, ACR/LR IMO has a poor conversion, shows more noise than raw therapy
or Capture One. NOTE LR is forcing you to use the manufacturers lens profile info, C1 allows you to turn it off.
You may find that C1 generic lens profile will give you more details, albeit with considerably more distortion.
Distortion can be easily fixed, loss of detail harder
4. I turn off AFC always, use AF to hit subject target, then move to MF. I would not try using MF by itself to focus
unless you are close to subject 20 feet or less. The DJI go app doesn't allow for 100% view for Live View and
without being able to zoom to 100%, dialing in critical MF is hard to do, even with peaking.
5. I tend to use AF on the center of the subject, as focusing on on side of your subject can create one side
over the image being a bit soft.
6. More you aim up or down off center, the more distortion you will get and the the distortion is considerable.
ACR/LR correct for this using camera profile, with loss of edge details. I prefer a manual correction using
Capture One. Capture One IMO also has a clear overall raw conversion.
7. Keep your shutter speeds in the 1/60 to 1/2000 range if possible. Sure the camera will go slower, but there is no
IS or VR on the Drone and it's moving all the time slightly albeit this is masked by the gimbal, but just that slight
gimbal movement could be enough to create a blur.


As you can see from your Sony RX100 camera, the 1" sensor in actually has quite a good range, or it's easy to compare on sites like dpreview. The same sensor in the DJI family of Drones, P4 Pro, P4 Pro Vr 2 and M2 Pro has a much lower DR range, again ISO push is pretty worthless past 200.

In bright daylight, camera does great, but early am/late pm or cloudy days you really need to consider bracketing your raws, and work on them in post. Can be a lot of work, but results can be positive.

Paul C

Thanks Paul,

I didn't think of bracketing, but I guess that would increase the amount of RAW information when you combine them and also widen dynamic range. I've not used Capture One before but might check that out.

The quality of my RX10 is so amazing, I naturally thought that the Hasselblad lens and 1" sensor on the drone would have achieved similar results. Obviously I'm wrong and just very hopeful. Really appreciate your comments above.

 

[Paul2660]

Meta4's, comment on Aerial photography is full of compromises, is so true.

Personally, as a 100% stills shooter, with drones, I would prefer a APS-C camera like the Inspire can offer, but the cost, weight, size and noise from the Inspire, for me makes it a no go for now.

I love the size of the M2 Pro, the range, and with the Smart Controller, it's a great package to carry in the field.

Would love to see DJI step to the plate and create a better camera platform, and I personally dislike the "hype" that DJI used on the M2 Pro by using the Hasselblad name. Sure they own the company so why not, but to imply that the camera/lens, etc are up to the standards of the X1D camera, or other MF solution from Hasselblad is bad marketing.

The camera can achieve some wonderful shots, and with a good raw converter, you can get some impressive results. I hope that DJI will move forward in the future with a similar platform with a more robust camera setup.

Currently DJI seems to be a bit out of sync with the non video centric photographic world as they could easily make some firmware upgrades to the current M2 Pro that would greatly improve its use.

1 stop exposure bracketing, panos modes be able to bracket, 100% view in MF for best focus, continuous file numbering to 9999 instead of 999 rollover,

And hopefully DJI will reconsider the portrait mode again like the Mavic Pro Platinum has as that mode is excellent for use in panos and to use a pano mode to create a single large image. (shoot in portrait mode to create a single large size landscape oriented image 4 20 MP images to create around 80MP single image.

Paul C

 

[Johnmcl7]

I have been disappointed with the Mavic 2 Pro's image quality against the Sony 1in sensor based camera (used the RX100, RX100m4 and the RX10m2) but then on the other hand it's a big step up from the Mavic 1 Pro and the portability of the Mavic is really important to me. In particular I find the dynamic range of the 1in sensor and the amount of detail you can recover from shadows and highlights is superb and I've been very pleased with the panoramas it's taken.

 

[25Vettes]

Noise is a function of the sensor and the electronic paths that the "image" passes through while processing. Considering the size of the camera, the lens optics and all of the EMI interference from the battery, motors, etc., I think it does a damned fine job. Does it compare to my Nikon D500, D850 or D5? Heck no, but then again, I wouldn't expect it to.

 

[Paul2660]

But does it compare to the same sensor in a Sony RC100 no. Should it compare to a Nikon D850 no.

I don’t thing there is any electrical interference causing noise. It’s just a very poor implementation of the sensor i.e. poor processing of the raws by the DJI Hasselblad camera. At ISO100 this sensor is capable of a lot more DR.

Not saving it can’t do a good job just saying it should be a lot better based on that same sensor in other cameras.

Paul C

 

[25Vettes]

But does it compare to the same sensor in a Sony RC100 no. Should it compare to a Nikon D850 no.

I don’t thing there is any electrical interference causing noise. It’s just a very poor implementation of the sensor i.e. poor processing of the raws by the DJI Hasselblad camera. At ISO100 this sensor is capable of a lot more DR.

Not saving it can’t do a good job just saying it should be a lot better based on that same sensor in other cameras.

Paul C

I totally disagree. The Mavic 2 Pro does not have the Circuitry nor the EMI protection to preserve the integrity of the sensor. The Hasselblad LENS captures spectacular images for it's size. You CAN NOT compare it to the lens of the Sony RC100 which has a much larger, complex optic.

FYI, the sensor is only one portion of the image capture equation. The most important piece is the photographer and the knowledge of how light strikes and affects the subject. I have captured phenomenal shots with a Nikon D1x, and it would destroy images at anything higher than 400 ISO. And the attached photo with a lowly Nikon D7000 almost 8 years ago.

Lastly, there are many manufacturers of 1" CMOS sensors, each with their own unique set of issues/advantages.

 

[Paul2660]

We can agree to disagree.

Glad it’s working great for you. That’s all that matters I guess.

It’s a disappointment for me. I agree based on the issues of a drone etc you are limited to what optics can be used. I am not complaining about the optics. I am just saying that a camera the size of a Sony RX100 can do a much better job with the same sensor. There is no more room in the Sony Rx100 camera in fact less than the Mavic 2. DJI could have done a better job with dynamic range as the sensor application in the M2 Pro is about maxed out at 100 iso and this forces bracketing for every shot if you want full range and clean shadows. The Sony RX100 family can easily handle ISO 800 with the same sensor.

Paul C

 

[25Vettes]

We can agree to disagree.

Glad it’s working great for you. That’s all that matters I guess.

It’s a disappointment for me.

Paul C

Hey Paul,

After owning at least a dozen or so high-end Nikon cameras, I really never expected it to be as good as it is. For me, it's a fun toy, a useful tool and if I ever need a better camera, I'll find a drone that I can mount my D5 to!

--Bill

 

[Paul2660]

Fully understand. I would love to have a D 810 and 24 70 on a drone. But that’s not in the cards.

Maybe I am being to critical.

I agree for the price point the tech is most impressive. And fun to fly.

Paul C

 

[KS-6]

I run all my MP2 DNG files through DXO Photolab3 with the lens specific trims before taking them into PS and get considerably better image quality than if I just just LR or Capture One alone. I also tend to quad stitch important shots in that I want the corners perfect if the light is not changing quickly or there is not action involved.

These techniques get me very usable images in most situations.

 

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

I run all my MP2 DNG files through DXO Photolab3 with the lens specific trims before taking them into PS and get considerably better image quality than if I just just LR or Capture One alone.

By "alone", does that mean that you aren't using the Lens Corrections in LR? Just saying, if you're going to compare, you should apply lens profiles in both apps.

Chris