Mad Tech's video

[Suren]

A very interesting video, its 43 minutes long but the ADS-B and GPS is on the same board. This could be the reason why both are not working well, I may have been onto something when i linked both these issues together.

 

[DelBeachFlyer]

I enjoyed Mad's video. The one thing he didn't address is any theory as to why ADS-B would stop working with recent firmware. The fact the two systems are on the same board and ADS-B stopped working at the same time GPS acquisition times increased is .. interesting.

 

[Meta4]

A very interesting video

Interesting?
In the end, he's not come up with anything that explains the problem but makes a few guesses.
He could have done that in 5 minutes.

 

[Deleted member 93449]

Interesting?
In the end, he's not come up with anything that explains the problem but makes a few guesses.
He could have done that in 5 minutes.

If you're already familiar with the background information he provides much of the video is probably not interesting to you. If you're not his providing that information and the reasons why some of the speculations regarding the root cause are not accurate may be of interest to some.

 

[oztx]

If his hypothesis is correct, maybe the initial M3 firmware release only used GPS & GLONASS and the later releases switched to the three GNSS system.

IMO, that doesn't explain why some M3s now have the problem and some don't, but it could explain why none of us had the problem at the beginning.

 

[DelBeachFlyer]

If his hypothesis is correct, maybe the initial M3 firmware release only used GPS & GLONASS and the later releases switched to the three GNSS system.

IMO, that doesn't explain why some M3s now have the problem and some don't, but it could explain why none of us had the problem at the beginning.

But then why wouldn't DJI just revert back to the original constellations? Fix the problem for the customer asap and give yourself time to work on the problem.

 

[Meta4]

But then why wouldn't DJI just revert back to the original constellations?

You'd think that DJI's people would have tried that somewhere in the 4 months they've been trying to solve the issue.
Maybe it's just not that simple.

 

[oztx]

But then why wouldn't DJI just revert back to the original constellations? Fix the problem for the customer asap and give yourself time to work on the problem.

Don't know -- I assumed it works in the lab, or they otherwise thought they'd figured it out.

I was also thinking about AirSense -- it works on the ground (and very close to the ground), but not inflight. And we have the people who say they can complete the initial GNSS acquisition quickly by hovering at 30 meters.

I wonder if there might be a mode change once the M3 leaves the ground that changes the GNSS acquisition method, but breaks AirSense. Mad's 3Hz vs 5Hz observation made me think of that.

 

[DelBeachFlyer]

You'd think that DJI's people would have tried that somewhere in the 4 months they've been trying to solve the issue.
Maybe it's just not that simple.

Or perhaps it's political. They started using China's system, and DJI is a Chinese company. Reverting / moving away from BeiDou is a good way to "lose face".

 

[ianwood]

Haven't watched the video yet but I've been DMing with Mad over the past few days so I am pretty sure I know what's in there. He doesn't draw conclusions (which I wish more people would try) but makes some interesting observations that are worth noting.

Mad's observed slow downs are interesting. Even though DJI has run 3 constellations before, the use of BDS is not common with most GPS tech outside China. BDS is pretty new. The M8030 is not. It could be there are some underlying challenges with the M8030's use of BDS in a three-way mix that has not been fully realized.

Why DJI is using it is likely a political/national motivation.

As for Airsense, it could be that DJI has been scratching their head as to the cause of the GPS issue and has turned off Airsense to rule it out as a source of interference. This would be the kind of thing you would do in testing and QA, not when you have a consumer product on store shelves worldwide for the past several months. But you know, that's DJI for you. We're the beta testers. It's always been that way.

 

[Suren]

Haven't watched the video yet but I've been DMing with Mad over the past few days so I am pretty sure I know what's in there. He doesn't draw conclusions (which I wish more people would try) but makes some interesting observations that are worth noting.

Mad's observed slow downs are interesting. Even though DJI has run 3 constellations before, the use of BDS is not common with most GPS tech outside China. BDS is pretty new. The M8030 is not. It could be there are some underlying challenges with the M8030's use of BDS in a three-way mix that has not been fully realized.

Why DJI is using it is likely a political/national motivation.

As for Airsense, it could be that DJI has been scratching their head as to the cause of the GPS issue and has turned off Airsense to rule it out as a source of interference. This would be the kind of thing you would do in testing and QA, not when you have a consumer product on store shelves worldwide for the past several months. But you know, that's DJI for you. We're the beta testers. It's always been that

Lets just say when the new FW drops, Airsense will be working as well as GPS

 

[Skywatcher2001]

Lets just say when the new FW drops, Airsense will be working as well as GPS

I can't wait. Got a trip coming up and I'm seriously considering taking the Air2s . . . .

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Guys some things I did not say in the video on DJI them selves. Don’t assume the right people know about the problem. DJI is a political beast where things get done based on the right person knowing and wanting to resolve it.

When the FPV V2 was bricking users on reboot and users could not activate them as they were shipping in the wrong mode DJI ignored it for 2 months. In the end I put out a video that said don’t buy the FPV system, with in 20 minutes I got a message from an old DJI contact who said hay we seen the video and it’s now been put into the PM hands and it will be solved this week. I found out they simply did not know till I forced it.

If you look at this in realty there are a few dozen posters on DJI forum complaining. That’s not a mass issue. It’s a vocal minority. They also can see there are some people in that mix who are not genuine. Trust me some old trolls are lurking that place and for those who have been around RCG long enough one of the biggest ones from there is back .

As has been said DJI may also be struggling to see it happening then selves. Logs won’t show everything and if it’s not happening in China then it’s not getting seen as they have close to pulled out of all of the US offices. They also don’t have the testers now. This issue would have been right up Kens street but those guys are not there to feed back. So then throwing some crap at the wall to try and see if some sticks can 100% be the case.

DJI can be glacial in their speed to address things. They have other priority’s ie the new releases and trust me that will take priority.

As for the ADSB no I did not go there yet. Iv not had chance to look at that closely but what has been said on DJI changing it perforce to see it’s affect is again very possible. It’s often a game of trying to things to see the affect it has on other things especially when your flying blind.

Having had some great discussion with some of the guys who dig into the FW DJI code is often a mess. There is a feeling on their side this is most like some stupid error they have made in the code either with how it’s handling the data from the GPS or the coms for it. They have made some strange errors in the past too.

Personally I still think BeiDou is in the mix here but time will tell.

I never said I would have all the answers. I never said I know everything or will be able to tell DJI what it going on. The goal was to look at the module and address is there fundamental things that require a recall and address the nonsense posted. Data like that puts us one step forward.

 

[Suren]

Guys some things I did not say in the video on DJI them selves. Don’t assume the right people know about the problem. DJI is a political beast where things get done based on the right person knowing and wanting to resolve it.

When the FPV V2 was bricking users on reboot and users could not activate them as they were shipping in the wrong mode DJI ignored it for 2 months. In the end I put out a video that said don’t buy the FPV system, with in 20 minutes I got a message from an old DJI contact who said hay we seen the video and it’s now been put into the PM hands and it will be solved this week. I found out they simply did not know till I forced it.

If you look at this in realty there are a few dozen posters on DJI forum complaining. That’s not a mass issue. It’s a vocal minority. They also can see there are some people in that mix who are not genuine. Trust me some old trolls are lurking that place and for those who have been around RCG long enough one of the biggest ones from there is back, Hay Dave .

As has been said DJI may also be struggling to see it. Logs won’t show everything and if it’s not happening in China then it’s not getting seen as they have close to pulled out of all of the US offices. They also don’t have the testers now. This issue would have been right up Kens street but those guys are not there to feed back.

DJI can be glacial in their speed to address things. They have other priority’s ie the new releases and trust me that will take priority.

As for the ADSB no I did not go there yet. Iv not had chance to look at that closely.

Having had some great discussion with some of the guys who dig into the FW DJI code is often a mess. There is a feeling on their side this is most like some stupid error they have made in the code either with how it’s handling the data from the GPS or the coms for it. They have made some strange errors in the past too.

Personally I still think BeiDou is in the mix here but time will tell.

I never said I would have all the answers. I never said I know everything or will be able to tell DJI what it going on. The goal was to look at the module and address is there fundamental things that require a recall, I don’t believe that is the case. Data like that puts us one step forward.

Hey Mad, I tested a new FW today and it locked sats very fast and Airsense was working, not 100% but working. It showed the plane 14km away but it was 3km away. At least this is some headway in the right direction I would say

 

[Mad_Angler1]

Hey Mad, I tested a new FW today and it locked sats very fast and Airsense was working, not 100% but working. It showed the plane 14km away but it was 3km away. At least this is some headway in the right direction I would say

Just be careful if you are using one of the internal tester account unofficially with out being told to install it that can come with big issues.

Trust me I beta tested for DJI for a while I have on more than one occasion had bricked units.

DJIs daily builds are not for consumption for anything but internal testing as they are very slap hazard at times.

 

[cwadams]

Guys some things I did not say in the video on DJI them selves. Don’t assume the right people know about the problem. DJI is a political beast where things get done based on the right person knowing and wanting to resolve it.

When the FPV V2 was bricking users on reboot and users could not activate them as they were shipping in the wrong mode DJI ignored it for 2 months. In the end I put out a video that said don’t buy the FPV system, with in 20 minutes I got a message from an old DJI contact who said hay we seen the video and it’s now been put into the PM hands and it will be solved this week. I found out they simply did not know till I forced it.

If you look at this in realty there are a few dozen posters on DJI forum complaining. That’s not a mass issue. It’s a vocal minority. They also can see there are some people in that mix who are not genuine. Trust me some old trolls are lurking that place and for those who have been around RCG long enough one of the biggest ones from there is back .

As has been said DJI may also be struggling to see it happening then selves. Logs won’t show everything and if it’s not happening in China then it’s not getting seen as they have close to pulled out of all of the US offices. They also don’t have the testers now. This issue would have been right up Kens street but those guys are not there to feed back. So then throwing some crap at the wall to try and see if some sticks can 100% be the case.

DJI can be glacial in their speed to address things. They have other priority’s ie the new releases and trust me that will take priority.

As for the ADSB no I did not go there yet. Iv not had chance to look at that closely but what has been said on DJI changing it perforce to see it’s affect is again very possible. It’s often a game of trying to things to see the affect it has on other things especially when your flying blind.

Having had some great discussion with some of the guys who dig into the FW DJI code is often a mess. There is a feeling on their side this is most like some stupid error they have made in the code either with how it’s handling the data from the GPS or the coms for it. They have made some strange errors in the past too.

Personally I still think BeiDou is in the mix here but time will tell.

I never said I would have all the answers. I never said I know everything or will be able to tell DJI what it going on. The goal was to look at the module and address is there fundamental things that require a recall and address the nonsense posted. Data like that puts us one step forward.

Hi Mads, I just popped over from a different set of forums. I am a new member here, but not new to the community. I watched and enjoyed your video very much. I was wondering, you used some different modules as a benchmark. Is it possible to configure those other modules to include BeiDou as a 3rd constellation, set the cycle speed to the same, and see how they perform? Or does the module need to be built to be BeiDou capable?