Mavic 2 Batteries & Consumer Law

[TuT]

Hi all,
I am in the unfortunate position that all of my Mavic 2 batteries are swelling after almost one year of use. This is despite only 30 charges each.

I have decided to test DJIs warranty under Australian Consumer Law.
It is the case under Australian law that phone batteries must last 2 years, or the expected life of the phone. Now I would expect a DJI $250 battery to last more than 30 charges or roughly 2 years as well.

I will let you know how I get on with the ACCC (our Consumer Protection department) when I open a case. In Australia a company cannot simply write a warranty. The goods must last an acceptable amount of time or they can be repaired, replaced or refunded at the consumers discretion. As I said, that is 2 years for a phone and battery so I might have a good case here.

Wish me luck!

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Wish me luck!

Good luck !!
Australian consumer law is pretty good like that.
Any goods are expected to be operable for a reasonably acceptable time vs relative type of product.
Even if DJI has deep pockets (and they do of course), if pushed they may just replace them, rather than set a precedent forced on them by law.
Again, good luck and do follow up on how you go.

 

[ff22]

Hi all,
I am in the unfortunate position that all of my Mavic 2 batteries are swelling after almost one year of use. This is despite only 30 charges each.

I have decided to test DJIs warranty under Australian Consumer Law.
It is the case under Australian law that phone batteries must last 2 years, or the expected life of the phone. Now I would expect a DJI $250 battery to last more than 30 charges or roughly 2 years as well.

I will let you know how I get on with the ACCC (our Consumer Protection department) when I open a case. In Australia a company cannot simply write a warranty. The goods must last an acceptable amount of time or they can be repaired, replaced or refunded at the consumers discretion. As I said, that is 2 years for a phone and battery so I might have a good case here.

Wish me luck!

I thought someone recently reported that they did get replacement batteries beyond that standard 6 month limit. And they may have been down=under somewhere. I would like to hear of your results and would like to see someone pushing DJI in the States over this issue.

 

[TuT]

There is a precedent:

Is There a Design Flaw with DJI’s Mavic 2 Intelligent Flight Batteries?

andyhutchinson.com.au

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

There is a precedent:

Is There a Design Flaw with DJI’s Mavic 2 Intelligent Flight Batteries?

andyhutchinson.com.au

Not a legal precedent though.
This is what I thought they'd do if pushed under Australian consumer law, so they don't have an official legal precedent set, and then maybe HAVE to change warranty period to something reasonable.

Andy Hutchinsons page in your link was interesting, exactly how you should approach DJI.
The link there to the YouTube video was fairly hidden, I would have missed it and the comments had he not mentioned about the many comments in the link.

I noticed @Camerado as the OP of the YT link video is a member here and has posted about his experience with this . . .

Mavic 2 Batteries bulging, less than 40 recharges each: Planned Obsolescence, Bad Batch...or Coincidence?

Just posting this to see if anyone else had this occur: my original battery and a spare both started bulging slightly just AFTER the 6 month warranty mark. Normal use, only around 40 recharge cycles each, never dropped, never stored in hot places. Is it planned obsolescence, a bad batch at...

mavicpilots.com

For sure I'm going to do 3 things with my 6 x M1P batteries, just for peace of mind next time I start up.
1. Check for swelling when recharging, condition of panel before and during.
2. Check for swelling before and after flights on each battery.
3. Check my cell health on the app.

3 of these are 3 years old, the original flymores . . . a 4th bought a few months after, and the last 2 batteries about 2 months ago.

Will also check my 3 Spark batteries similarly.

 

[hiflyer201]

I've had no problem with my 5 Spark batteries. The Mavic Air is a different story. Out of three, two have swelled and the other had a sudden unplanned for landing after a "critical Low Battery" warning. I have treated them well and they appear to be good on Airdata. I feel if they are going to be so short lived..DJI should cut the price in half.

 

[everBit]

DJI Mavic Air and Mavic 2 Pro batteries are more vulnarable to swelling in comparison to all previous their drones batteries. One of supposed reason is that they are designed to be charged to 4.40V per cell while all others models were charged to maximum 4.20V and 4.35V (depending of cells chemistry).
Definitely it was done to pump-in more Amper*hours into the cells to increase overall flight time but as a back-side we see shortening the service life of them.
Regarding warranty DJI has limited it to just 6 months or 200 cycles depending what come first so in many cases all swallen batteries are now out of guarantee period.

We could not compare lifetime of phone batteries and drones ones due to high-current rates and heavy duty cycles. (just consider they give away their full charge just in 30minute, the phones ones could lasts for even some days). High-current rates is a main factor for reduced lifetime so we could not require for drones battery same waranty as for smartphones ones.

In any case I wish you luck in talking with DJI under Australian Law.

p.s.
For someone who wish to prolong their Mavic 2 Pro battery life it's recommended to limit charging to about 4.30V per cells i.e. to 95% of full charge.
As well not to fly too long in hot weather and land the drone when battery tepmerature exceeds 60 *C which could be monitored thorugh battery menu.

 

[TuT]

Hi All,
There has been a lot of correspondence back and forth between myself and DJI.
I will update you all with the final outcome soon. I don't want to say anything while proceedings are still in motion be be assured I will let you know the result.

Cheers, TuT

 

[Saigondroner]

I personally have had all kinds of problems with all LiPo batteries, and electolytic corrosion here in Vietnam. The heat and humidity of the tropics is brutal. I have a puffed out P3 battery that works better than some of my others.

My lesson learned is to treat every multi-cell as best as possible. Follow the maker's instructions.....that basically say:

1. Do not overheat, or recharge a hot battery
2. Never allow a battery to become totally discharged. DJI batteries self-discharge to optimize a LiPo's lifespan.
3. NEVER short the leads of a LiPo!!! LiPo's store an amazing amount of power, but are dangerous.
4. If you are doing anything "homemade", have a metal pail full of sand at your side. LiPo battery fires cannot be stopped with water! Chemical fires do not stop without oxygen!!
5. When the battery is obviously useless, please dispose correctly.
6. Why can't you check your LiPo's into your checked luggage?

THEY ARE DANGEROUS

Safe Flying

 

[mavicn00b]

DJI Mavic Air and Mavic 2 Pro batteries are more vulnarable to swelling in comparison to all previous their drones batteries. One of supposed reason is that they are designed to be charged to 4.40V per cell while all others models were charged to maximum 4.20V and 4.35V (depending of cells chemistry).
Definitely it was done to pump-in more Amper*hours into the cells to increase overall flight time but as a back-side we see shortening the service life of them.
Regarding warranty DJI has limited it to just 6 months or 200 cycles depending what come first so in many cases all swallen batteries are now out of guarantee period.

We could not compare lifetime of phone batteries and drones ones due to high-current rates and heavy duty cycles. (just consider they give away their full charge just in 30minute, the phones ones could lasts for even some days). High-current rates is a main factor for reduced lifetime so we could not require for drones battery same waranty as for smartphones ones.

In any case I wish you luck in talking with DJI under Australian Law.

p.s.
For someone who wish to prolong their Mavic 2 Pro battery life it's recommended to limit charging to about 4.30V per cells i.e. to 95% of full charge.
As well not to fly too long in hot weather and land the drone when battery tepmerature exceeds 60 *C which could be monitored thorugh battery menu.

I've "pumped" mine to 4.4v/cell on the M2 and the batteries haven't swelled at all after 1.5yrs. These are Sept 2018 batch though. The batteries have about 100 cycle charge to around 4.36v/cell now though which is in line with most other batteries I've had.
4.4v cells are used in many more applications than just drones, my Note 8 has one and it's going over 2 years now and close to 800 cycles without issue.

I'm very meticulous so as to not let them get very hot, sit around fully charged for manydays (typically fly the battery same day is charged), don't recharge the pack until it's room temperature and then recharge to either 50 or 100 depending on when I intend on using it next.

I'd say these batteries (other than faulty batch reported here) seem to be operating more or less in line with my other LiPo batteries. The locked in 10 day Auto discharge DJI had may have contributed to people's packs prematurely failing, DJI later released a firmware update allowing users to alter this parameter and I believe set to 5 days now as default.

While I do believe undercharging them slightly will most likely yield higher service life, if the cell isn't kept right, I think it will fall in line with other cells that were fully charged.

LiPo are so finicky and I hope whatever battery chemistry they come out with next just lets us charge and use the batteries without having to think so much about them ?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

LiPo battery fires cannot be stopped with water!

This is a great topic.
Found a very good airline related doc for this a while ago, the pdf download is worth saving and a good read . . .

Lithium batteries: safe to fly? | Safety First

Today, Lithium batteries play a barely visible, yet essential role in both our daily life and aviation alike. Manufactured and handled correctly, Lithium batteries are safe. But production failures, mishandling, or not being aware of their specific characteristics can have serious repercussions.

safetyfirst.airbus.com

Halon extinguishers are now banned in a lot of places, use newer clean agent extinguishers, leave no residue which is a bonus.
Dedicated clean agent extinguisher, powder ABE and BE, carbon dioxide.

 

[Saigondroner]

This is a great topic.
Found a very good airline related doc for this a while ago, the pdf download is worth saving and a good read . . .

Lithium batteries: safe to fly? | Safety First

Today, Lithium batteries play a barely visible, yet essential role in both our daily life and aviation alike. Manufactured and handled correctly, Lithium batteries are safe. But production failures, mishandling, or not being aware of their specific characteristics can have serious repercussions.

safetyfirst.airbus.com

Halon extinguishers are now banned in a lot of places, use newer clean agent extinguishers, leave no residue which is a bonus.
Dedicated clean agent extinguisher, powder ABE and BE, carbon dioxide.

I was in datacenter in West TX when the Challenger exploded. The halon-104 almost killed us, we evacc'ed one guy who passed out.
LiPo batteries are fairly similar to thermite, but do give you a little more time to limit the impact.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I was in datacenter in West TX when the Challenger exploded. The halon-104 almost killed us, we evacc'ed one guy who passed out.
LiPo batteries are fairly similar to thermite, but do give you a little more time to limit the impact.

Thats nasty, assuming my recollection us correct that halon 104 = carbon tetrachloride. Nice sweet smell but well documented carcinogen. Hard to see the comparison of LiION tech to thermite, different composition and performance.

 

[Saigondroner]

Thats nasty, assuming my recollection us correct that halon 104 = carbon tetrachloride. Nice sweet smell but well documented carcinogen. Hard to see the comparison of LiION tech to thermite, different composition and performance.

Way back "in the day" data centers were ~200sf shacks in the middle of nowhere. This place was just outside of Ingram TX, in Kerr county. A truly beautiful area along the Gudalupe River. There were several very expensive hunting lodges in the area. They had exotic animals, like African River Deer, all for rich trophy hunters.

3 of of us were onsite, doing work for HBO/Hughes satellite stuff. We had small 7" monitors in the racks, and the Challenger launch was on most of them. Within 90 seconds of the tragedy, sirens & red lights went off. You're right, Carbon Tet smells sweet.

I had never been inside a Halon release, but 1 guy got a whiff, and hit the deck. The other engineer & I knew to get out fast. We opened the door, and dragged the 3rd engineer outside.

The shack was tiny, by today's standards. Propping the door open ventilated the space quickly.

Today's DC's are a different beast, even at outpost sites. It would be extraordinary that a human is trapped inside a DC, and a failure is imminent. Standard SOP is to pop in earplugs; if the DC is failing, the positive gas pressure, and the mere sound will blow out a persons' ear drums.

Some DC's use C02 now, mainly onboard critical naval ship spots. Co2 is very effective, and deadly.

 

[TuT]

Thank you DJI. 2 x Free replacement batteries.

 

[JAW]

When were your defective batteries made?
p.s. Congrats on getting DJI to replace them!

 

[TuT]

Serial Decoder says: build on: 20. July 2018

 

[TuT]

I have received an email stating that the 3rd battery (the one that came in the box with the Mavic 2 Pro) is to be replaced.

Go Australian Consumer Law and thank you to DJI (not that they were keen to comply)

I ask all Australian DJI pilots to take note of this thread!

 

[neozero84]

I have received an email stating that the 3rd battery (the one that came in the box with the Mavic 2 Pro) is to be replaced.

Go Australian Consumer Law and thank you to DJI (not that they were keen to comply)

I ask all Australian DJI pilots to take note of this thread!

Can you give us any indication on how you did it