Mavic 2 Flir - An Analysis

[io390]

Yesterday these two posts popped up:

DJI picture 1

DJI Picture 2

#2 was released by the Enterprise team and right now everyone thinks that it's a thermal accessory for the Mavic 2 Enterprise. Makes perfect sense, DJI would be incredibly dumb to not do this. Question, is what sensor? The accessories that already exist for the M2 are pretty small and lightweight, and a thermal camera will need a gimbal. It will also need to have the sensor placed far forward, beyond the nose, so it can see downwards. That rules out any sensor large than a Boson, and a Boson is still pretty heavy at around 40 grams. When combined with a visible light camera for blending/embossing/enhancement/MSX, AND a gimbal, you have a fairly weighty setup to be hanging off the front of a Mavic.

I believe that this system is based on the Flir One, which uses a Flir Lepton sensor. The Lepton is available in 160x120 and 80x60 pixel flavour, with radiometric versions available. One of the above photos shows temperature values so that means it can either be a Lepton 2.5 or 3.5. I'll go with 3.5, so that's a resolution of 160x120 and 56 degree HFOV.

Compare the DJI images with these images from a Flir One:

Flir One 1

Flir One 2

Now, compare that with photos I just took with a Boson 320 to mimic the shots from DJI. One shows my desk with a Mavic and a cup with slightly warm water, and the other shows my phone. These are with a 2.3mm lens Boson so very wide angle at 92 degree HFOV, in reality for drone use you would use a 6.3mm or better. I have one of those too but it's no good for close up stuff.

Boson 320 1

Boson 320 2

Notice how, even with much higher FOV and no visible light enhancement, the images from the Boson 320 are vastly better than those from DJI's camera. Better detail and thermal sensitivity - and you can see the much more crisp outline of my phone for example.

It's probably a bit pointless speculating about all of this until Monday, however this does affect me as right now (Drone Doctor UK) we have spent the last couple of months developing this:

M2 Thermal

This is a very early prototype. We've reverse engineered many of the systems in the Mavic and have developed a solution to switch between a 8MP visible light camera and a Boson 320, with colour palette and digital zoom controllable from the controller. No extra parts, displays, batteries or anything. It all works as you would expect and you use the DJI Go 4 app as normal. It simply is a Mavic with a thermal and visible light camera that you switch between. It's possible in future to implement blending of the thermal and visible light images, however it's not a priority at this moment.

Having spent so long on the development, it was a shame to see that DJI had apparently beaten us to the chase, however from what we can see so far DJI may well have released a very half-baked solution, which would make sense given that they don't want to be adding a competitor to the M210/XT2 range.

Sorry about the non-embedded images, the embedding wouldn't work.

 

[Cookedinlh]

Yesterday these two posts popped up:

DJI picture 1

DJI Picture 2

#2 was released by the Enterprise team and right now everyone thinks that it's a thermal accessory for the Mavic 2 Enterprise. Makes perfect sense, DJI would be incredibly dumb to not do this. Question, is what sensor? The accessories that already exist for the M2 are pretty small and lightweight, and a thermal camera will need a gimbal. It will also need to have the sensor placed far forward, beyond the nose, so it can see downwards. That rules out any sensor large than a Boson, and a Boson is still pretty heavy at around 40 grams. When combined with a visible light camera for blending/embossing/enhancement/MSX, AND a gimbal, you have a fairly weighty setup to be hanging off the front of a Mavic.

I believe that this system is based on the Flir One, which uses a Flir Lepton sensor. The Lepton is available in 160x120 and 80x60 pixel flavour, with radiometric versions available. One of the above photos shows temperature values so that means it can either be a Lepton 2.5 or 3.5. I'll go with 3.5, so that's a resolution of 160x120 and 56 degree HFOV.

Compare the DJI images with these images from a Flir One:

Flir One 1

Flir One 2

Now, compare that with photos I just took with a Boson 320 to mimic the shots from DJI. One shows my desk with a Mavic and a cup with slightly warm water, and the other shows my phone. These are with a 2.3mm lens Boson so very wide angle at 92 degree HFOV, in reality for drone use you would use a 6.3mm or better. I have one of those too but it's no good for close up stuff.

Boson 320 1

Boson 320 2

Notice how, even with much higher FOV and no visible light enhancement, the images from the Boson 320 are vastly better than those from DJI's camera. Better detail and thermal sensitivity - and you can see the much more crisp outline of my phone for example.

It's probably a bit pointless speculating about all of this until Monday, however this does affect me as right now (Drone Doctor UK) we have spent the last couple of months developing this:

M2 Thermal

This is a very early prototype. We've reverse engineered many of the systems in the Mavic and have developed a solution to switch between a 8MP visible light camera and a Boson 320, with colour palette and digital zoom controllable from the controller. No extra parts, displays, batteries or anything. It all works as you would expect and you use the DJI Go 4 app as normal. It simply is a Mavic with a thermal and visible light camera that you switch between. It's possible in future to implement blending of the thermal and visible light images, however it's not a priority at this moment.

Having spent so long on the development, it was a shame to see that DJI had apparently beaten us to the chase, however from what we can see so far DJI may well have released a very half-baked solution, which would make sense given that they don't want to be adding a competitor to the M210/XT2 range.

Sorry about the non-embedded images, the embedding wouldn't work.

Nice analysis . . thanks . . we wait and watch. while we experiment with all the other cool M2E capabilities . .especially VLOS with the new Spotlight

 

[Snowstorm]

I can’t help to think that the M2E is an v1.1 if the M2Z, one that should really not sell for such a premium over the M2Z. The accessories seem kind of half baked, speaker has no live stream (even though there is sufficent bandwidth for HD video stream), the spotlight is nearly useless without ability to tilt. And the beacon, well, it should just be a part of the airframe and not an accessory at all.

I hope to see a M2Z/P v2 with a a couple of built in light beacons and ability to accept accessories. Where someone can purchase the accessories a la cart.

 

[io390]

I can’t help to think that the M2E is an v1.1 if the M2Z, one that should really not sell for such a premium over the M2Z. The accessories seem kind of half baked, speaker has no live stream (even though there is sufficent bandwidth for HD video stream), the spotlight is nearly useless without ability to tilt. And the beacon, well, it should just be a part of the airframe and not an accessory at all.

I hope to see a M2Z/P v2 with a a couple of built in light beacons and ability to accept accessories. Where someone can purchase the accessories a la cart.

The Mavic 2 Enterprise has *almost identical hardware* to the M2Z. The only difference is two extra chips on one of the boards, an extra USB port and a different top shell moulding. That is it. For DJI to make this economical in quantity, it needs to have all the same hardware as a normal Mavic 2. Adding built in strobes etc... would be too expensive for them.

Or take the Mavic Pro Platinum as another example. It's literally a normal Mavic spray painted silver with the only other difference being a new ESC board.

 

[Cookedinlh]

Got to mention again here... that Spotlight for VLOS, the ADS-B and local protected memory makes the package a far more useful drone than the Pro or Zoom alone. .. and worth the price difference.. . Even though most people likely don’t care.

 

[io390]

Announcement delayed...

Agreed, those features are only really useful for commercial users, but then that is what the M2E is aimed at. Plenty of consumers are asking if they should buy an M2E, and the answer is no unless they are doing commercial work.

 

[io390]

DJI Makes Thermal Imaging Portable with Mavic 2 Enterprise Dual

Looks like some people still uploaded the press release I have the page saved in case the link goes dead.

As I suspected then, it uses a Lepton. So it won't be good for identifying people at distance. We're cracking on with the Boson solution though, won't be long now but it will be more expensive.

 

[Snowstorm]

The good thing is that it looks like the Lepton is mounted on the gimbal, snot not as an above the top accessory. The bad news, actually really bad, is that it will likely be 160x120 thermal resolution. Which is OK for inspection, but not at all useful for search. I don’t think you can expect to see a person on thermal only if you are more than say 30-40m up.

Thermal inspection during the day would be fine, definitely not a thermal search platform at night.

 

[io390]

Lepton (Flir Duo):

Boson:

No comparison

 

[Cookedinlh]

Check out sUAS.com for new Mavic 2E boson mount. Rumour is they have a clever method of making inflight settings adjustments. Could be out before end of the year. they even have a Mavic IR gimbal... not sure about the top center mount (may interfere with GPS) The fixed side mount for their boson pkg is only $25. . . so I got one coming to try it out

 

[io390]

Check out sUAS.com for new Mavic 2E boson mount. Rumour is they have a clever method of making inflight settings adjustments. Could be out before end of the year. they even have a Mavic IR gimbal... not sure about the top center mount (may interfere with GPS. The fixed side mount for their boson pkg is only $25.

Any chance you could link? Can't find it on there

Edit: thanks - was looking for the M2E one but can't see it. No bother - their solution does unfortunately use FPV gear for the video downlink, which is not ideal for public service use.

 

[Cookedinlh]

Any chance you could link? Can't find it on there

Sorry did that on my phone and could not find away to insert a link . . I edited it up top https://www.suas.com/vuir-boson-for-mavic

 

[PaulAudet]

The good thing is that it looks like the Lepton is mounted on the gimbal, snot not as an above the top accessory. The bad news, actually really bad, is that it will likely be 160x120 thermal resolution. Which is OK for inspection, but not at all useful for search. I don’t think you can expect to see a person on thermal only if you are more than say 30-40m up.

Thermal inspection during the day would be fine, definitely not a thermal search platform at night.

According to DJI's spec sheet it says image size is 640x480 (4:3).

Is this the actual "sensor size"?

If so, that is a very good resolution for thermal cameras



Mavic 2 Enterprise- Specifications, FAQs, Videos, Tutorials, Manuals - DJI

M2ED Thermal Camera
Sensor Uncooled VOx MicrobolometerLens HFOV: 57°
Aperture: f/1.1Pixel Pitch 12 μmSpectral Band 8-14 μmImage Size 640×480 (4:3);
640×360 (16:9)Still Photography Modes Single shot
Burst shooting: 3/5/7 frames
Video Recording Modes 640×360 @8.7fpsAccuracy High Gain: Max ±5% (typical)
Low Gain: Max ±10% (typical)Scene Range High Gain: -10° to +140°C
Low Gain: -10°to +400°CPhoto JPEGVideo MP4, MOV (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264)

 

[io390]

According to DJI's spec sheet it says image size is 640x480 (4:3).

Is this the actual "sensor size"?

If so, that is a very good resolution for thermal cameras



Mavic 2 Enterprise- Specifications, FAQs, Videos, Tutorials, Manuals - DJI

M2ED Thermal Camera
Sensor Uncooled VOx MicrobolometerLens HFOV: 57°
Aperture: f/1.1Pixel Pitch 12 μmSpectral Band 8-14 μmImage Size 640×480 (4:3);
640×360 (16:9)Still Photography Modes Single shot
Burst shooting: 3/5/7 frames
Video Recording Modes 640×360 @8.7fpsAccuracy High Gain: Max ±5% (typical)
Low Gain: Max ±10% (typical)Scene Range High Gain: -10° to +140°C
Low Gain: -10°to +400°CPhoto JPEGVideo MP4, MOV (MPEG-4 AVC/H.264)

Unfortunately not - that's the size of the recorded images/photos. The sensor is a 160x120 Flir Lepton 3.5:

Lepton LWIR Micro Thermal Camera Module | FLIR Systems

 

[mavicn00b]

far DJI may well have released a very half-baked solution

Wouldnt be the first time, in fact its kinda the norm for DJI.

 

[io390]

Wouldnt be the first time, in fact its kinda the norm for DJI.

They definitely make some fantastic products but they have some legwork to do in order to gain the full trust of commercial operators. There will have been many people who have purchased an M2E when they were really after one with thermal... All DJI had to do was notify people that a thermal version was in the works and would be released a month or two down the line. That would be the expected thing in any other industry.

 

[mnix]

Well done on integrating it into the Mavic and GO - a much better/more portable setup than the other third-party offerings I've seen so far (and portability is why you own a mavic right?).

I'm definitely more interested in the Boson over the Lepton sensor too - I've owned a Pulsar HD38 monocular (384x288 sensor) for several years and I think the DJI offering would turn out to be a big disappointment in comparison.
Also really liking the possibility of swapable lenses on the thermal - I know, half the cost of a thermal is that lens - but it does bring the possibility of configuring the camera for different tasks.

 

[Snowstorm]

I would love to see some actual benchmarks or test to see the thermal range of this, in terms of spotting a human sized signature. I estimate it to be about 40m only. Nearly useless for search.

 

[io390]

Well done on integrating it into the Mavic and GO - a much better/more portable setup than the other third-party offerings I've seen so far (and portability is why you own a mavic right?).

I'm definitely more interested in the Boson over the Lepton sensor too - I've owned a Pulsar HD38 monocular (384x288 sensor) for several years and I think the DJI offering would turn out to be a big disappointment in comparison.
Also really liking the possibility of swapable lenses on the thermal - I know, half the cost of a thermal is that lens - but it does bring the possibility of configuring the camera for different tasks.

Thanks, that's what we are going for.

Regarding lenses, I don't think Flir sell the Boson lenses on their own so likely you'd need a whole Boson core to get a different lens.

I would love to see some actual benchmarks or test to see the thermal range of this, in terms of spotting a human sized signature. I estimate it to be about 40m only. Nearly useless for search.

Are you referring to the Boson or Lepton solution?

Boson 320 6.3mm can easily make out a person waving their arms 200m away.

 

[Snowstorm]

I was referring to the DJI M2E Dual with their Lepton. I would love to be proven wrong though I don’t think that would be a good search thermal soution. Likely max range of around only 40m to see someone. Boson would do a lot better and be useful. I know why DJI did this as they have to segment this from their more expensive professional/industrial line, but it is really a let down. It likely will fail the expectations of many especially they misleadingly spec it as 640x480 thermal image size.