Mavic Air 2 Modification

[Deleted member 135749]

Will Upgrading antenna on the drone itself help with signal?

I want to upgrade boosted directional antenna on controller and a high gain 2.4/5.8 antenna on drone itself... In therory(Don't crucify me) if both antennas are upgraded shouldn't that give me more range or at least a more stable range?

 

[bumper]

The antennas on the drone are omni-directional (i.e. they transmit a signal kinda like a doughnut in all directions) this works well as the drone orientation will typically change in relation to the controller. The antennas fit within the front legs of the drone, there's not much room to install a more efficient antenna design there, and you don't want to get "gain" by putting in a directional antenna for the aforementioned reason.

The controller is another story, as you know. Modify away and always keep the controller facing the drone.

 

[Deleted member 135749]

The antennas on the drone are omni-directional (i.e. they transmit a signal kinda like a doughnut in all directions) this works well as the drone orientation will typically change in relation to the controller. The antennas fit within the front legs of the drone, there's not much room to install a more efficient antenna design there, and you don't want to get "gain" by putting in a directional antenna for the aforementioned reason.

The controller is another story, as you know. Modify away and always keep the controller facing the drone.

Don't crusify me but couldnt you install a high gain omnidirectional on the drone and directional on the controller?

 

[bumper]

Where would you put a different antenna on the drone? Consider that a wavelength a 2.4 gig is just under 5 inches, so a half wave antenna is less than 2.5 inches (I'm not sure what DJI uses). It's more practical and easier to boost control performance on both transmit and receive than it would be to modify the drone. And, it accomplishes the same thing, increased performance on both send and receive for more range.

I have a stock M2P and Smart Controller, more than enough range in the USA.

 

[Deleted member 135749]

Where would you put a different antenna on the drone?

TBH not sure quite yet im still brainstorming lol

Consider that a wavelength a 2.4 gig is just under 5 inches, so a half wave antenna is less than 2.5 inches (I'm not sure what DJI uses). It's more practical and easier to boost control performance on both transmit and receive than it would be to modify the drone. And, it accomplishes the same thing, increased performance on both send and receive for more range.

I have a stock M2P and Smart Controller, more than enough range in the USA.

When you say "It's more practical and easier to boost control performance on both transmit and receive than it would be to modify the drone."

Do you mean its easier to boost performance on the controller rather than both controller and drone? Sorry I'm just slightly confused

 

[bumper]

Yes.

When you boost transmit power of the controller (or modify the antenna to make it more directional), the drone's receiver gets a stronger signal from the controller and that means more range.

When you improve the gain of the controller's receive antenna (add a pre-amp or make it more directional* etc.), that allows the controller to receive and use a weaker signal from the drone.

Net effect of the above mods is to increase the operating range of the drone without making any change to the drone.

*Note that a more directional antenna needs to point at the receive antenna with more precision. Otherwise it's worse than stock.

 

[Deleted member 135749]

Yes.

When you boost transmit power of the controller (or modify the antenna to make it more directional), the drone's receiver gets a stronger signal from the controller and that means more range.

When you improve the gain of the controller's receive antenna (add a pre-amp or make it more directional* etc.), that allows the controller to receive and use a weaker signal from the drone.

Net effect of the above mods is to increase the operating range of the drone without making any change to the drone.

*Note that a more directional antenna needs to point at the receive antenna with more precision. Otherwise it's worse than stock.

Okay, i get the controller portion but im not understanding how the drone is sending back to the controller if the transceiver isn't able to transmit back that far? I could just be ovwr thinking it as its late lol

 

[bumper]

Yes.

When you boost transmit power of the controller (or modify the antenna to make it more directional), the drone's receiver gets a stronger signal from the controller and that means more range.

When you improve the gain of the controller's receive antenna (add a pre-amp or make it more directional* etc.), that allows the controller to receive and use a weaker signal from the drone.

Net effect of the above mods is to increase the operating range of the drone without making any change to the drone.

*Note that a more directional antenna needs to point at the receive antenna with more precision. Otherwise it's worse than stock.

 

[Deleted member 135749]

Yes.

When you boost transmit power of the controller (or modify the antenna to make it more directional), the drone's receiver gets a stronger signal from the controller and that means more range.

When you improve the gain of the controller's receive antenna (add a pre-amp or make it more directional* etc.), that allows the controller to receive and use a weaker signal from the drone.

Net effect of the above mods is to increase the operating range of the drone without making any change to the drone.

*Note that a more directional antenna needs to point at the receive antenna with more precision. Otherwise it's worse than stock.

Ahh makes sense now I was just tired last night lol

So really wouldn't need to modify the drone as long as you modify the controller to transmit and receive better and farther with booster etc.

Im not looking to go 30mi or nothing crazy but here where i live the farthest i been is like 2miles even, before signal gets sketchy.. Im looking to get idk maybe 6 or 7 like it calls for lol

 

[bumper]

Not meaning to preach, but there are good reasons to stay legal and keep the drone within line of sight. In uncontrolled airspace and away from people and structures, full size aircraft can fly at any altitude from the surface to 18K feet. We fly below 400 feet in some of the nice places drones can legally fly IF they are within your line of sight. It is legal for full size aircraft to fly at speeds up to 230 mph in those areas below 2,500 feet. Pilots cannot hope to see and avoid a drone in time at even 1/4 that speed. So when you choose to fly beyond line-of-sight, you are putting others at risk of serious injury or death.

 

[Deleted member 135749]

Not meaning to preach, but there are good reasons to stay legal and keep the drone within line of sight. In uncontrolled airspace and away from people and structures, full size aircraft can fly at any altitude from the surface to 18K feet. We fly below 400 feet in some of the nice places drones can legally fly IF they are within your line of sight. It is legal for full size aircraft to fly at speeds up to 230 mph in those areas below 2,500 feet. Pilots cannot hope to see and avoid a drone in time at even 1/4 that speed. So when you choose to fly beyond line-of-sight, you are putting others at risk of serious injury or death.

Of course man i have a visual observer that helps me.. My friend lives just out of LOS so he hops on 2 way and helps when i fly that far O dont even really plan on maxing my range out after my build im Just intrigued with building radio devices i used to be real heavily into ham radio etc.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Not meaning to preach, but there are good reasons to stay legal and keep the drone within line of sight. In uncontrolled airspace and away from people and structures, full size aircraft can fly at any altitude from the surface to 18K feet. We fly below 400 feet in some of the nice places drones can legally fly IF they are within your line of sight. It is legal for full size aircraft to fly at speeds up to 230 mph in those areas below 2,500 feet. Pilots cannot hope to see and avoid a drone in time at even 1/4 that speed. So when you choose to fly beyond line-of-sight, you are putting others at risk of serious injury or death.

The flip side of your argument is that a plane flying under 400 feet at 230mph won't give the drone pilot an opportunity to avoid it either, even when the drone pilot is flying fully within VLOS!

 

[bumper]

The flip side of your argument is that a plane flying under 400 feet at 230mph won't give the drone pilot an opportunity to avoid it either, even when the drone pilot is flying fully within VLOS!

Mine was not an argument. I was stating facts and the current rules aircraft operate under.

230 mph (200 knots) is max speed allowed, most non-military aircraft will be making a lot less down low. For example, if I'm flying a river canyon in my Husky see below), I'll be doing something like 45 to 70 mph (my max level speed is around 120 mph). Still too fast to acquire the drone, but the drone pilot should be able to hear the plane approaching, then avoid the plane when he sees it. If the drone pilot doesn't have VLOS on his drone, it is most unlikely he can see and avoid, and that was the whole point. The onus is on the drone pilot first to always yield to the plane, though obviously the plane pilot has a lot more at stake.

Go to about the 4 minute point in the video, (turn speakers off as it's just engine and wind noise). I'm flying a good bit above stall due to thermals and instability.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Mine was not an argument. I was stating facts and the current rules aircraft operate under.

230 mph (200 knots) is max speed allowed, most non-military aircraft will be making a lot less down low. For example, if I'm flying a river canyon in my Husky see below), I'll be doing something like 45 to 70 mph (my max level speed is around 120 mph). Still too fast to acquire the drone, but the drone pilot should be able to hear the plane approaching, then avoid the plane when he sees it. If the drone pilot doesn't have VLOS on his drone, it is most unlikely he can see and avoid, and that was the whole point. The onus is on the drone pilot first to always yield to the plane, though obviously the plane pilot has a lot more at stake.

Go to about the 4 minute point in the video, (turn speakers off as it's just engine and wind noise). I'm flying a good bit above stall due to thermals and instability.

You said don't mean to preach, but you stated in the italicized section that I was replying to, "Pilots cannot hope to see and avoid a drone in time at even 1/4 that speed." implying that a drone pilot under VLOS should be able to better avoid a plane flying under 400 feet at 230mph. That is an argument you are making to justify the VLOS requirement. However, nothing else you have stated changes the fact that the drone pilot is still highly unlikely to be able to see and avoid such a rogue plane, even when flying VLOS. That is my whole point. If you choose to fly a plane that way, you are the one putting yourself at risk. You can hardly blame the drone pilots, when you eat up a few drones being flown under VLOS along the way! VLOS has nothing to do with it!

Nice video. Horizon seems a little off. Might want to check your gimbal.

 

[usrmesarge]

Ahh makes sense now I was just tired last night lol

So really wouldn't need to modify the drone as long as you modify the controller to transmit and receive better and farther with booster etc.

Im not looking to go 30mi or nothing crazy but here where i live the farthest i been is like 2miles even, before signal gets sketchy.. Im looking to get idk maybe 6 or 7 like it calls for lol

Correct me if I'm wrong but there are amps for 2.4 and 5.8 GHZ antennas that both transmitand recieve at higher power tham the controller and drone. I believe i read controller is 100mw power out, they have trans/recv amps anywhere from 100MW to 1 watt. It mounts on the controller with some mods. Have open conyroller and solder anteena leads to an RG adapter. Cable to input of amp then a cable out to anetenna.

 

[bumper]

You said don't mean to preach, but you stated in the italicized section that I was replying to, "Pilots cannot hope to see and avoid a drone in time at even 1/4 that speed." implying that a drone pilot under VLOS should be able to better avoid a plane flying under 400 feet at 230mph. That is an argument you are making to justify the VLOS requirement. However, nothing else you have stated changes the fact that the drone pilot is still highly unlikely to be able to see and avoid such a rogue plane, even when flying VLOS. That is my whole point. If you choose to fly a plane that way, you are the one putting yourself at risk. You can hardly blame the drone pilots, when you eat up a few drones being flown under VLOS along the way! VLOS has nothing to do with it!

Nice video. Horizon seems a little off. Might want to check your gimbal.

The point I'm making is that if you are not VLOS, and don't have an observer who is, then you are not in compliance with the law. And that full size aircraft can be legally flown where you might be operating your drone. It is *your* responsibility to see and avoid. Period*. Look up :

Section 107.37 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.


* Is is far easier for the drone operator to hear, then visually acquire and avoid a full size aircraft than it is for the aircraft to see and avoid a drone. In that river canyon, a good deal of my attention is focused on avoiding other aircraft that may be flying in the opposite direction.

 

[GadgetGuy]

The point I'm making is that if you are not VLOS, and don't have an observer who is, then you are not in compliance with the law. And that full size aircraft can be legally flown where you might be operating your drone. It is *your* responsibility to see and avoid. Period*. Look up :

Section 107.37 Operation near aircraft; right-of-way rules.


* Is is far easier for the drone operator to hear, then visually acquire and avoid a full size aircraft than it is for the aircraft to see and avoid a drone. In that river canyon, a good deal of my attention is focused on avoiding other aircraft that may be flying in the opposite direction.

Legal or not, the point I am making is that you are the one who is clearly flying recklessly, not the drone pilot, whether they are flying VLOS or not! Expecting and demanding the drone pilot to see and avoid your up to 230mph flight below 400 feet in river canyons is completely absurd! It's like expecting to be able to jam your brakes in front of a car tailgating you at 75 mph and not have them run into you, despite the fact that, technically, they are required to do so! Stop preaching that your clearly reckless flying is the drone pilot's problem!

 

[bumper]

Legal or not, the point I am making is that you are the one who is clearly flying recklessly, not the drone pilot, whether they are flying VLOS or not! Expecting and demanding the drone pilot to see and avoid your up to 230mph flight below 400 feet in river canyons is completely absurd! It's like expecting to be able to jam your brakes in front of a car tailgating you at 75 mph and not have them run into you, despite the fact that, technically, they are required to do so! Stop preaching that your clearly reckless flying is the drone pilot's problem!

1) Your position is not supported by law.
2) If you are beyond VLOS with your drone, with no observer, you are illegal.
3) The flight shown in the video was neither reckless, illegal or unsafe. It was flown at 60 to 70, though could legally have been flown at up to 230 mph. However, physically, at least in that canyon, that would be impossible due to the aircraft's increasing turn radius with speed.
4) One more time, as drone pilots it is OUR responsibility to see and avoid manned aircraft. Your opinion as to how that manned aircraft is operating doesn't enter the picture and doesn't mean squat.

 

[GadgetGuy]

1) Your position is not supported by law.
2) If you are beyond VLOS with your drone, with no observer, you are illegal.
3) The flight shown in the video was neither reckless, illegal or unsafe. It was flown at 60 to 70, though could legally have been flown at up to 230 mph. However, physically, at least in that canyon, that would be impossible due to the aircraft's increasing turn radius with speed.
4) One more time, as drone pilots it is OUR responsibility to see and avoid manned aircraft. Your opinion as to how that manned aircraft is operating doesn't enter the picture and doesn't mean squat.

Good luck with your reckless plane flying! Your obstinate refusal to see how you are the real problem will eventually be your undoing, after a midair collision with another aircraft that you are required to see and avoid. There are bold pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots!

 

[bumper]

Don't hold your breath bunky. I've been flying for over 30 years, instrument rated, SEL w/complex aircraft, glider with aero-tow and self launch endorsements, glider tow pilot, with over 4000 hours, over 500 hours of which are in my Aviat Husky bush plane, flying and landing in lots of gnarly places - I don't consider that that makes me all that bold, but whatever. At 75 years, I'm dang old, so that makes me old and a bit bold. I manage risks and avoid those that are unacceptable. None of that experience is a guarantee of a safe outcome to any particular flight of course (just like when participating in any active sport or avocation), but so far no mayhem. So there goes your trite and overused "no old, bold pilots" saying. BTW, one I like better is, "Never run out of air speed, altitude, and ideas all at the same time", which only applies to fixed wing.

And you, Mr. Words of Wisdom and Experience? From your responses so far, I gather you flaunt the FARs when it comes to drone flying. I truly hope you don't hurt anyone.