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ND filters for drones, do you need them?

vicvideopic

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How and when to use ND filters for your drone in three areas: photography, time-lapses or hyper lapses, and video.
The aim is to see if and why you should buy them and what kind of ND filters you should get according to different situations
 
For still images, not generally needed unless you want to do some long exposure work. For video, yes, use ND filters to get a smoother shot from frame to frame. Shooting at very high speeds causes a choppy look to your video. Slow shutter speeds work much better and will give you a more professional look. I generally shoot at 120 FPS with my M2P and keep shutter speeds at or below 1/30th of a second. By using a high frame rate, it allows me to speed up the footage without any loss of quality. In editing, if you add frames (which you do to slow footage down) the software has to make up additional frames, which are of lower quality. If you take the frames away to speed the footage up, no loss of quality. Hope this helps.
 
There is a interesting post over at autelpilots forum about ND filters. The OP claims to be a professional and has no problem giving advice.
Some good info and some I question.

 
There is a interesting post over at autelpilots forum about ND filters. The OP claims to be a professional and has no problem giving advice.
Some good info and some I question.

Just read that post, and while there are some good points, a lot of it is a little (or maybe a little more than a little) off target.

To start with I've NEVER heard of NDs burning out the gimbal on modern drones. Actually, the drones are designed to accommodate them. Good quality ones don't practically reduce image quality or damage your lens either. On the contrary, I've had NDs save my camera lens in a crash. (ND broke, lens survived)

As far as motion blur being irrelevant for drones, yes, if you stick to 400 feet, it's not a huge deal. But if you like to fly close the ground or other objects (which I do a lot), the motion blur created by 180-degree shutter absolutely does make a big difference. And yes, you CAN add motion blur in post (and I do it quite a bit), but it doesn't always look natural (especially with fast motion, when you really need it), has a tendency to have weird artifacts, and takes quite a bit of processing power, so it's far from a perfect solution.

As far as shutter speed not causing "stutter", depends how you define stutter, but 24 fps with a high shutter speed will definitely look "not smooth". 30fps is a lot more forgiving with shutter speed because there is less time between frames, making the video smoother to start with. I actually shoot 30fps most of the time for that exact reason.

Anyway, just some thoughts on the post. He's got a point, but I think he pushes it a bit too far. I definitely don't use NDs for everything, but they are a very useful (essential??) tool in the kit of an aerial filmmaker.
 
There is a interesting post over at autelpilots forum about ND filters. The OP claims to be a professional and has no problem giving advice.
Some good info and some I question.

Just read some more of the thread, and the OP clearly doesn't have a very good handle on how optics work and some photography/video concepts. Very interesting thread to read though. Thanks for sharing. 👍
 
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Just read some more of the thread, and the OP clearly doesn't have a very good handle on how optics work and some photography/video concepts. Very interesting thread to read though. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Yes I agree. In my post I mentioned he has no problem giving advice. I was trying to be nice LOL
 
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There is a interesting post over at autelpilots forum about ND filters. The OP claims to be a professional and has no problem giving advice.
Some good info and some I question.


LOL - I question pretty much all of it. He 'never' uses ND's on a drone but he says, and I quote "I use them nearly daily with all of my other cameras to control the shutter speed" Maybe he forgot that 90% of consumer drones are fixed aperture at around 2.8 while he talks about dialing his drone to an F11 and letting the shutter be whatever it is. He also states that he does not understand why anyone would use 24 FPS.

I think there is a lot more he has to discover; that he doesn't understand.
 
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Its been a while since I read over the whole post but remember someone either in that post or another one of his called him out on a lot of the stuff he was saying. The guy worked on hollywood sets flying UAV's and told him he would be fired on the first day. LOL
I'm no expert and just pick up a few good pointers from everyone with more knowledge then I. I don't fly that often and tend to forget more then I took in :)
 
I recommend actually *watching* @vicvideopic’s clip above. There are some good examples of ND/no ND footage and how it affects our interpretation of motion in video.

Most of the first half is timelapse. Most of the second half is video applications. Part of getting better at creating things is training your eye/brain to see them… and these are good and unfortunately rare examples!
 
For still images, not generally needed unless you want to do some long exposure work. For video, yes, use ND filters to get a smoother shot from frame to frame. Shooting at very high speeds causes a choppy look to your video. Slow shutter speeds work much better and will give you a more professional look. I generally shoot at 120 FPS with my M2P and keep shutter speeds at or below 1/30th of a second. By using a high frame rate, it allows me to speed up the footage without any loss of quality. In editing, if you add frames (which you do to slow footage down) the software has to make up additional frames, which are of lower quality. If you take the frames away to speed the footage up, no loss of quality. Hope this helps.
Interesting, you sure you explained that right?
 
There is a interesting post over at autelpilots forum about ND filters. The OP claims to be a professional and has no problem giving advice.
Some good info and some I question.

I agree with 90% of what he says.
 
Interesting, you sure you explained that right?
Ha! I just reread what I wrote and the math isn't adding up. Sorry about that. The basics are true though, more FPS the smoother you can make the video. The reason is that you have the ability to greatly slow down the footage at normal speed playback. And if you need to make faster, you can eliminate frames without the loss of quality. It is when you add frames to make the footage slow down that you add frames, which are tweens from the other frames, and quality can suffer. In photo work, these considerations are not the same.
 
Ha! I just reread what I wrote and the math isn't adding up. Sorry about that. The basics are true though, more FPS the smoother you can make the video. The reason is that you have the ability to greatly slow down the footage at normal speed playback. And if you need to make faster, you can eliminate frames without the loss of quality. It is when you add frames to make the footage slow down that you add frames, which are tweens from the other frames, and quality can suffer. In photo work, these considerations are not the same.
I agree, I never shoot at a slow frame rate, just in case I want to slow it down some. When in 5k I’m at max, 50 FPS always, in 4k generally 60, and sometimes 120 if I know I’m going to slow it down for sure. Frame blending or optical flow can help for slow mo but it still won’t give you slow mo if you are only shooting in 30 FPS or less. Nothing to loose if we use faster frame rates yep.
 
I agree, I never shoot at a slow frame rate, just in case I want to slow it down some. When in 5k I’m at max, 50 FPS always, in 4k generally 60, and sometimes 120 if I know I’m going to slow it down for sure. Frame blending or optical flow can help for slow mo but it still won’t give you slow mo if you are only shooting in 30 FPS or less. Nothing to loose if we use faster frame rates yep.
I am, and have always been a still photographer. It is what I love. My brother however, is a video guy and has impeccable credentials (he was the director of visual media at the White House). He was a navy guy who did a lot of aerial video work and getting advice from him about video, the one thing that I came away with is that the footage for aerial work ALWAYS gets slowed down, his recommendation is by a full 1/3rd. So, like you, I shoot at a very high frame rate and then drop some of the frames to get it to the proper speed. Adding frames will always have an effect on the overall quality of the footage. Be well and thanks for pointing out my glaring error. I became a journalist and teach communications now because I can't handle numbers. haha! Merry Christmas.

Cordially,

Mark
 
I am, and have always been a still photographer. It is what I love. My brother however, is a video guy and has impeccable credentials (he was the director of visual media at the White House). He was a navy guy who did a lot of aerial video work and getting advice from him about video, the one thing that I came away with is that the footage for aerial work ALWAYS gets slowed down, his recommendation is by a full 1/3rd. So, like you, I shoot at a very high frame rate and then drop some of the frames to get it to the proper speed. Adding frames will always have an effect on the overall quality of the footage. Be well and thanks for pointing out my glaring error. I became a journalist and teach communications now because I can't handle numbers. haha! Merry Christmas.

Cordially,

Mark
I’d say your brother knows his stuff, take his advice which I tend to agree with. Some editing software such as FCPX drop the extra frames automatically. I’ve seen the YouTube tutorials saying to shoot at 24 fps, I seriously question their experience with drones and aerial footage.

I’d say never put an ND filter on a drone unless you have no choice, which is never. First off, ND filters for consumer drones aren’t high quality. I do recommend a good polarized filter, but I don’t subscribe to ND filters, don’t even own any from my drones. Maybe if your doing a lot of photography but not for video, many guys disagree.

That’s my two cents, merry Christmas all the best to you and yours.
 
I mainly do landscape photography, and there's no way I'd go up without a circular polarizer. I have the Polar Pro combo ND/PL filters, and they are great. They not only protect your camera, but they make the pictures look better imo. I sat the Air 2S and my back porch and took these within 30 secs of each other. One no filter and the other with the ND8/PL filter.
 

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