NORWAY fjord areas: Practicality of flying legally?

[anonymouse]

I am looking at buying a Mavic 2 Pro to accompany us on a 3-week Summer driving trip around the Norwegian fjords (in and out along the west coast about as far as Kristiansund, then back inland; National Scenic Routes Hardanger, Gaularfjellet, Trollstigen, Gamle Strynefjellsvegen, Sognefjellet, Aurlandsjellet).

We want to fly legally (unlike SO many of the videos posted online!). I've read the regulations for non-commercial flying. I note in particular the rules that we must not fly within 150m of people or vehicles; and with altitude <120m.

I would appreciate some thoughts on what these regulations are like in practice so I can decide whether bringing a drone is worthwhile. For example:
- staying 150m from people and vehicles means we can't overfly a road, follow a beach which has people on it, launch from any lookouts where there are people etc. Is that actually practicable?
- are there additional constraints along scenic routes, eg because they are in national parks?
- if we are viewing a fjord from above, presumably flying out from the lookout or roadside would immediately place us in breach of the altitude rule?
- instead of flying unlicensed as a recreational pilot, should I register as a RO1 commercial pilot in order to be covered by their regulations which allow flying within 50m of people?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[DanielSan]

Don't quote me on this, but in my opinion, you should check out local websites and talk to local electronics dealers, (if there are any), and see what local regulations on this are. I have had experiences like this before where you are traveling to a country and the rules aren't quite clear, but as I said above, just dig around a little.

 

[deleted member 877]

I am looking at buying a Mavic 2 Pro to accompany us on a 3-week Summer driving trip around the Norwegian fjords (in and out along the west coast about as far as Kristiansund, then back inland; National Scenic Routes Hardanger, Gaularfjellet, Trollstigen, Gamle Strynefjellsvegen, Sognefjellet, Aurlandsjellet).

We want to fly legally (unlike SO many of the videos posted online!). I've read the regulations for non-commercial flying. I note in particular the rules that we must not fly within 150m of people or vehicles; and with altitude <120m.

I would appreciate some thoughts on what these regulations are like in practice so I can decide whether bringing a drone is worthwhile. For example:
- staying 150m from people and vehicles means we can't overfly a road, follow a beach which has people on it, launch from any lookouts where there are people etc. Is that actually practicable?
- are there additional constraints along scenic routes, eg because they are in national parks?
- if we are viewing a fjord from above, presumably flying out from the lookout or roadside would immediately place us in breach of the altitude rule?
- instead of flying unlicensed as a recreational pilot, should I register as a RO1 commercial pilot in order to be covered by their regulations which allow flying within 50m of people?

Thanks for any advice.

The 120 metre altitude limit is based on where the drone is launched, not sea level. So you will be OK to fly out over the fjords from a cliff launch. Edit: Sorry, this is incorrect - see post #8 below.

In regard to proximity to people you will have more success flying very early in the morning when most people are still in bed.

 

[anonymouse]

The 120 metre altitude limit is based on where the drone is launched, not sea level.

But section 51 of the drone regulations seems to be worded as :

It is not permitted to fly at altitudes of more than 120 metres above ground or water​

...?

 

[deleted member 877]

But section 51 of the drone regulations seems to be worded as :

It is not permitted to fly at altitudes of more than 120 metres above ground or water​

...?

I think you will find that it will be the same as in other countries where the altitude is measured from launch point - otherwise it would make drone flying somewhat impractical especially in a place like Norway.

Edit: Sorry, this is incorrect - see post #8 below.

 

[zocalo]

In regard to proximity to people you will have more success flying very early in the morning when most people are still in bed.

While this is definitely good advice, in practice you'll probably not have too many problems with this unless you are in a particularly busy tourist hotspot. Because of all the fjords and islands the coastline of Norway is *huge* and there are not all that many people in Norway even in peak season, so chances are pretty high you'll have many places to yourself.

If not, most tourists don't linger too long at most of the roadside viewpoints; it's usually snap, snap, selfie, selfie, back in the car, move on. Waiting a few minutes (take some stills, or just enjoy the view perhaps?) will often leave you alone and able to launch safely and legally. Or you could engage them in conversation, bringing them under your control for the purposes of the proximity rule, and then launch.

Norway's a fantastically scenic place (I've made several trips there now) and I'm sure you'll not want for suitable spots to take off from. Once you get away from the cities you'll also find other cars get increasingly infrequent, so flying over roads isn't likely to be a problem as long as you get your timing right and have enough altitude when you do.

 

[swings16]

I would not sweat it...as long as you don't draw attention to yourself doing crazy moves and don't showboat i believe you will be fine...What a fantastic place to fly...i have seen documentaries on Fjords and the incredible scenes there and i envy you...Magnificent and OUT OF THIS WORLD...relax and shoot away...don't break chops...be kind and be cool...and please post what you see...i just flew my old MP...it worked perfectly,BUT my backdrop was Fire Engines blasting away and car horns blowing...i also had to quit flying before my fingers froze...left with over 50% of power left...i NEVER do that...I'm DONE with this MARCH (?) January weather

 

[AMann]

I think you will find that it will be the same as in other countries where the altitude is measured from launch point - otherwise it would make drone flying somewhat impractical especially in a place like Norway.

Whaaaaat?! It’s AGL for the aircraft in the US, what countries allow it from the launch point? Does Australia? Just curious as it would mean a large difference of AGL elevation in mountainous regions. It doesn’t make sense to me...

 

[deleted member 877]

Whaaaaat?! It’s AGL for the aircraft in the US, what countries allow it from the launch point? Does Australia? Just curious as it would mean a large difference of AGL elevation in mountainous reagions. It doesn’t make sense to me...

OK, so now I'm not at all sure. I really did think that the launch point is considered to be zero and that you can ascend 120M from there. So, with the scenario where you launch from the top of a mountain, you would need to descend as you fly away so that you stay within 120M vertically from the side of the mountain. Is this correct?

 

[deleted member 877]

Folks, please accept my apologies for posting misinformation in regard to the "maximum altitude" rule. @AMann has corrected me - see post #8 above.

Edit: I should also be referring to "maximum Height " - not Altitude, which is measured against mean sea level.

 

[zocalo]

OK, so now I'm not at all sure. I really did think that the launch point is considered to be zero and that you can ascend 120M from there. So, with the scenario where you launch from the top of a mountain, you would need to descend as you fly away so that you stay within 120M vertically from the side of the mountain. Is this correct?

I've only ever come across AGL or no legislated restriction at all, although I think there might be rare exceptions where there is an ASL based restriction, possibly in addition to an AGL one. I think the confusion comes from DJI using relative altitudes from the home point as well. e.g. if your max altitude is set to 120m and you start flying up a hill, you'll be unable to fly more than 120m above your home point, even though the drone might be much less than that AGL at its current location. Alternatively, if you fly over a cliff and descend below your home point DJI Go will (correctly) display a negative altitude relative to your home point.

Would be nice if DJI were able to provide more of a hybrid mode, e.g. cap it at 120m AGL *or* 120m above home point, whichever is greater at the time. That could be really useful for things like following a mountain biker up a hill where the change in altitude might be more than your max ceiling. The only think you can do in scenarios like that at present is set the max ceiling to 400m, regardless of what the legal AGL requirements are, and ensure you don't exceed the AGL using best judgement.

 

[AMann]

Folks, please accept my apologies for posting misinformation in regard to the "maximum altitude" rule. @AMann has corrected me - see post #8 above.

Edit: I should also be referring to "maximum Height " - not Altitude, which is measured against mean sea level.

You are very respectful issuing a correction. ‘Elevation’ and ‘Altitude’ are confusing, I always remembered it as airplanes have altimeters and mountains have elevation.

You are right also- Our controllers only measure vertical and horizontal distance from the drone related to the controller or home base, it is not the actual AGL height of the drone which the laws pertain to. So we can go heigher if flying up the sides of a tall hill or building, and must go lower if flying very far out away from it in order to maintain the maximum legal AGL.

...Oh man, what would I give to be able to drive around and tour in Norway!

 

[AMann]

”...The only thing you can do in scenarios like that at present is set the max ceiling to 400m, regardless of what the legal AGL requirements are, and ensure you don't exceed the [legal] AGL using best judgement.”

This is sound and correct if Norway’s laws are similar to those in the US and many other places. I’ve been doing this also to be able to fly along steep terrain in the US. As long as you are near it, just don’t go higher than 120m (or 400’ in the US) above the top of it.