Part 107 Rule Changes and Certificate

[MtnFlyer]

With the changes to part 107, night flight, etc., if you recently got your part 107, how does the FAA handle and older certificates, that are yet still valid, prior to night flying, etc. changes that are coming (as I read) later this month? Do you have to retake your 107 or is there some sort of additional testing required beyond what was required several months ago to fly under 107?

Thanks!

 

[vindibona1]

That's an interesting question. The oddity in the 107 rules is that if you're flying recreationally you do not need a waiver as long as you meet the requirement of night flight, mainly attaching the appropriate strobes to your drone.

Ironically, flying commercially throws a whole lot of red tape in the mix that, at least on the surface, makes no sense in light of the fact that recreational flyers can just go out and fly. Yet Part 107 pilots who have studied the rules and been tested for them have to jump through hoops to get a waiver. Sounds bass-ackwards to me. I have no idea if there are any changes for night flights for Part 107 pilots. But governmental agencies often create rules and laws that make no sense on a practical level and drones aren't the only area that has oxymoronic laws and regulations- and from my experience the FAA is one of the more practical agencies.

Having said that, I do understand the need for rules, observance of those rules and the need to educate pilots of any status of them.

 

[BigAl07]

Let's just try and answer the question without going down "That" rabbit hole @vindibona1

With the changes to part 107, night flight, etc., if you recently got your part 107, how does the FAA handle and older certificates, that are yet still valid, prior to night flying, etc. changes that are coming (as I read) later this month? Do you have to retake your 107 or is there some sort of additional testing required beyond what was required several months ago to fly under 107?

Thanks!

If you want to fly at night and If you do not have your ~107.29 (Daylight Waiver) or even if you do and you plan to fly at night after 5/17/2021 (All~107.29's auto expire midnight 5/17/2021) you will have to have taken either the new Online Recurrency Training (scheduled, tentatively to be released 4/6/2021) or re-take the Initial In-Person Knowledge Test over (again after it's updated to the new regulations).

 

[OurAngryBadger]

Let's just try and answer the question without going down "That" rabbit hole @vindibona1



If you want to fly at night and If you do not have your ~107.29 (Daylight Waiver) or even if you do and you plan to fly at night after 5/17/2021 (All~107.29's auto expire midnight 5/17/2021) you will have to have taken either the new Online Recurrency Training (scheduled, tentatively to be released 4/6/2021) or re-take the Initial In-Person Knowledge Test over (again after it's updated to the new regulations).

In my case I have had the daylight waiver for nearly a year. Does that mean my daylight waiver expires next month, and I will need to re-take the 107 and re-submit for a new waiver? Or will the same waiver be good after I re-take the 107?

Also, why do I have to come here to a forum and randomly see this post to know this info, why doesn't the FAA email me or send me a letter. ?

 

[51 Drones]

Let's just try and answer the question without going down "That" rabbit hole @vindibona1



If you want to fly at night and If you do not have your ~107.29 (Daylight Waiver) or even if you do and you plan to fly at night after 5/17/2021 (All~107.29's auto expire midnight 5/17/2021) you will have to have taken either the new Online Recurrency Training (scheduled, tentatively to be released 4/6/2021) or re-take the Initial In-Person Knowledge Test over (again after it's updated to the new regulations).

Hi Al. Do you have a reference for that please? Thanks! Russ

 

[bumper]

Interesting.

Sometimes the FAA behaves in ways that are not entirely intuitive. I've heard, from a normally unreliable and highly disputable source, they've recently changed the FAA Motto from, "We're not happy until you're not happy!" to "We've upped our standards, ( Mod Removed Inappropriate Remark)

 

[BigAl07]

Hi Al. Do you have a reference for that please? Thanks! Russ

Right now all I have is my FAA Training Materials for when I'm teaching/speaking which I can't openly share.

Which part are you unsure about?

 

[BigAl07]

Existing 107.29 Waivers Auto Terminate:
After the effective date of this rule, remote pilots operating under a waiver received prior to the effective date will be allowed to continue to operate at night under the provisions of that waiver without meeting the updated recurrent training requirement for a period of 60 days. All night waivers issued prior to the effective date of this rule that authorize deviation from § 107.29 Daylight Operation terminate on May 17, 2021. This date provides time for waiver holders to come into compliance with this rule and allow the holder to request a new certificate of waiver, if applicable, prior to the termination date.


ReCurrency Training:
The Agency proposed to revise the regulations to require that the remote pilot complete a knowledge test or training concerning small UAS operations at night. This rule finalizes those additions, as proposed. Applicants who are eligible to obtain a remote pilot certificate must complete an updated knowledge test prior to conducting operations at night. This rule also requires existing holders of a part 107 remote pilot certificate to complete updated training prior to operating as a remote pilot at night.


The updated knowledge test and training will assess applicants' and pilots' knowledge of risks and situations that are not present during daylight operations. The new testing and training will include questions on anti-collision light requirements, when the anti-collision light is allowed to be dimmed, how to determine aircraft position, obstacle avoidance with lack of visual cues, what aircraft may be conducting low level night operations, night physiology, circadian rhythm effects, and other topics. Through this education, the remote pilot will have the knowledge to operate a small UAS at night safely and implement the appropriate protocols and tools to mitigate risks they have identified for their operation.


The updated testing and recurrent training required to conduct night operations will be made available on the FAA website on March 1, 2021. This date provides a 15 day period for new applicants or current Remote Pilot Certificate holders to complete the updated testing or training, as applicable, for those who seek to conduct night operations on the effective date of this rule.

Here's a link to the Federal Register but keep in mind the current Administration has put 2 delays on it so take the dates of 3/1/2021 and mentally read them as 4/6/2021 (or later LOL)

Operation of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People

This rule finalizes the February 13, 2019 notice of proposed rulemaking titled ``Operation of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems over People'' (the NPRM). In June 2016, the FAA published remote pilot certification and operating rules for civil small unmanned aircraft weighing less than 55 pounds....

www.federalregister.gov

 

[MtnFlyer]

Thanks for the info - much appreciated!

 

[Vic Moss]

Let's just try and answer the question without going down "That" rabbit hole @vindibona1



If you want to fly at night and If you do not have your ~107.29 (Daylight Waiver) or even if you do and you plan to fly at night after 5/17/2021 (All~107.29's auto expire midnight 5/17/2021) you will have to have taken either the new Online Recurrency Training (scheduled, tentatively to be released 4/6/2021) or re-take the Initial In-Person Knowledge Test over (again after it's updated to the new regulations).

Date 107.20 Waivers will terminate has changed to 4/21 + 60 days. On my calendar, that makes it June 20, 2021.

The new dates for everything will be published in the Federal Register today. As of now (7:30MST) it has not been published.

 

[BigAl07]

It's posted to the Federal Register today.

Operation of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People; Delay; Withdrawal; Correction

In accordance with the memorandum of January 20, 2021, from the Assistant to the President and Chief of Staff, titled ``Regulatory Freeze Pending Review,'' the Agency delays the effective date of the final rule, ``Operation of Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People'', until April 21, 2021,...

www.federalregister.gov

 

[Eaglesky77]

That's an interesting question. The oddity in the 107 rules is that if you're flying recreationally you do not need a waiver as long as you meet the requirement of night flight, mainly attaching the appropriate strobes to your drone.

Ironically, flying commercially throws a whole lot of red tape in the mix that, at least on the surface, makes no sense in light of the fact that recreational flyers can just go out and fly. Yet Part 107 pilots who have studied the rules and been tested for them have to jump through hoops to get a waiver. Sounds bass-ackwards to me. I have no idea if there are any changes for night flights for Part 107 pilots. But governmental agencies often create rules and laws that make no sense on a practical level and drones aren't the only area that has oxymoronic laws and regulations- and from my experience the FAA is one of the more practical agencies.

Having said that, I do understand the need for rules, observance of those rules and the need to educate pilots of any status of them.

Hi I am in the process of getting my 107 year exemption after the test soon. But I read your post that as recreational user now I can fly at night. When I got my air to, I was always hearing and reading it is not to fly cdlone at night ( after civil twilight. Is it your understanding that I am incorrect? I need long exposure photos for my projects and as long as I have the required strobes with 3 mile visibility, am o ok to fly at night. Obviously I cannot get LAANC approval but if u say the FAA says it is allowed recreationally, I be grateful to know what you know. Thanks
Will

 

[BigAl07]

Hi I am in the process of getting my 107 year exemption after the test soon. But I read your post that as recreational user now I can fly at night. When I got my air to, I was always hearing and reading it is not to fly cdlone at night ( after civil twilight. Is it your understanding that I am incorrect? I need long exposure photos for my projects and as long as I have the required strobes with 3 mile visibility, am o ok to fly at night. Obviously I cannot get LAANC approval but if u say the FAA says it is allowed recreationally, I be grateful to know what you know. Thanks
Will

Good morning Will and WELCOME to the forum

As a Recreational operator ~44809, you CAN fly at night so long as the aircraft is properly lighted and you are able to maintain VLOS (not just seeing a twinkling light but able to know distance, position, orientation, and direction of travel of the aircraft at all times). If your flight does not 100% fit into the Protective Bubble of ~44809 then you are flying, by DEFAULT, under Part 107 rules and accountable for every aspect of Part 107.

The one item that "might" cause a problem is the potential for the meaning of "my projects". Are they purely recreational in nature or in some way outside of what would be considered ~44809? That's for you to determine and if it's "iffy" make sure you can prove your stance if the need should arrive.

FAA ~44809 Recreational Operator Rules

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

FAA Part 107 Operator Rules

Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators

www.faa.gov

If you're not sure where your operation falls you can try using this quick "Identification Tool" from the FAA to help guide what your UAS options are:

User Identification Tool

www.faa.gov

 

[Eaglesky77]

Good morning Will and WELCOME to the forum

As a Recreational operator ~44809, you CAN fly at night so long as the aircraft is properly lighted and you are able to maintain VLOS (not just seeing a twinkling light but able to know distance, position, orientation, and direction of travel of the aircraft at all times). If your flight does not 100% fit into the Protective Bubble of ~44809 then you are flying, by DEFAULT, under Part 107 rules and accountable for every aspect of Part 107.

The one item that "might" cause a problem is the potential for the meaning of "my projects". Are they purely recreational in nature or in some way outside of what would be considered ~44809? That's for you to determine and if it's "iffy" make sure you can prove your stance if the need should arrive.

FAA ~44809 Recreational Operator Rules

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

FAA Part 107 Operator Rules

Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators

www.faa.gov

If you're not sure where your operation falls you can try using this quick "Identification Tool" from the FAA to help guide what your UAS options are:

User Identification Tool

www.faa.gov

Big Al. Thank you for this reply, welcome, and message u sent me. Great to meet some others who know more until I get to bsorb all the needed info to fly safe and within guidelines. Great to hear about night / after civil twilight option.
and the project is a “ city reel” I’m making for a Tesla toe friend as a favor and not to sell since I’m not yet under the 107 license exemption. But others want me in the same area to help and willing to pay so I’m trying to get prepped and tested as soon as able to.
of course, I was flying the new DJI FPV quad just on Sunday at sundown in altitude zone and warning zone, and the university hospital life flight comes my way. I heard and saw it right as I was alerted on controller of nearby piloted aircraft approaching. So I quickly got to a safe altitude, but the sensors were not on in the mode I was in and I caught a tree limb and it fell to the pavement in a couple pieces. And my Air 2 has a cracked arm so I’m “ grounded”. Sending in today for the “ care refresh “coverage to get replacements but hoping to get them soon to get them back.
I don’t fly the acrobatic manual mode in the FPV. Just no use for it in photos and videos unless you need a film to have the view ax if flying a fighter jet( that thing goes zero to 60 in 2 seconds snd 90 mph maxed out! So far 60 mph has been fine and in post I can speed up to look like higher speeds if I want. I love that FPV though!
I use it in short films as a 1st person shot like looking from that perspective and moving slowly at about eye level it can create very effective and professional looking videos.
recently my father passed away and he’s buried at a old pre civil war ( haunted) graveyard my family has a plot in behind a chapel in the country. It’s a national historic landmark and a beautiful peaceful place. I was making a video with the theme on life being so short and what we do when on earth walking from the cradle to th grace and then beyond.
I had video I lost were I was showing my father’s last days and walking toward the grave and when standing over his tombstone , I was introducing a light from above using the other drone shining a bright lift through a prism and then a picture still first person as my father’s soul standing over his grave and looking up at the light, then soaring up and fast towards Heaven. I lost that footage and will have to start over. But ability to shoot at night will allow me to show more of the “ vapor “ we are in life and my fathers journey.
Sorry to ramble. Just curious if anyone else has the Dji FPV and their thoughts / ideas on other uses in videos or photography
I did snap this photo using that quad to get these cows to all look at the camera on que! Ha. Pitching it to chik fil a , why not I though. Cows are notoriously hard to distract and even harder to get several grazing to all look at a camera. But I thought why not see if Chik fil a would want it ....I imagine not. Photoshop can do the same. Still though I cannot accept money until I get my 107. So again, I’m getting that ASAP.
Thanks again! Great to meet you
Will.

 

[BigAl07]

Big Al. Thank you for this reply, welcome, and message u sent me. Great to meet some others who know more until I get to bsorb all the needed info to fly safe and within guidelines. Great to hear about night / after civil twilight option.
and the project is a “ city reel” I’m making for a Tesla toe friend as a favor and not to sell since I’m not yet under the 107 license exemption. But others want me in the same area to help and willing to pay so I’m trying to get prepped and tested as soon as able to.
of course, I was flying the new DJI FPV quad just on Sunday at sundown in altitude zone and warning zone, and the university hospital life flight comes my way. I heard and saw it right as I was alerted on controller of nearby piloted aircraft approaching. So I quickly got to a safe altitude, but the sensors were not on in the mode I was in and I caught a tree limb and it fell to the pavement in a couple pieces. And my Air 2 has a cracked arm so I’m “ grounded”. Sending in today for the “ care refresh “coverage to get replacements but hoping to get them soon to get them back.
I don’t fly the acrobatic manual mode in the FPV. Just no use for it in photos and videos unless you need a film to have the view ax if flying a fighter jet( that thing goes zero to 60 in 2 seconds snd 90 mph maxed out! So far 60 mph has been fine and in post I can speed up to look like higher speeds if I want. I love that FPV though!
I use it in short films as a 1st person shot like looking from that perspective and moving slowly at about eye level it can create very effective and professional looking videos.
recently my father passed away and he’s buried at a old pre civil war ( haunted) graveyard my family has a plot in behind a chapel in the country. It’s a national historic landmark and a beautiful peaceful place. I was making a video with the theme on life being so short and what we do when on earth walking from the cradle to th grace and then beyond.
I had video I lost were I was showing my father’s last days and walking toward the grave and when standing over his tombstone , I was introducing a light from above using the other drone shining a bright lift through a prism and then a picture still first person as my father’s soul standing over his grave and looking up at the light, then soaring up and fast towards Heaven. I lost that footage and will have to start over. But ability to shoot at night will allow me to show more of the “ vapor “ we are in life and my fathers journey.
Sorry to ramble. Just curious if anyone else has the Dji FPV and their thoughts / ideas on other uses in videos or photography
I did snap this photo using that quad to get these cows to all look at the camera on que! Ha. Pitching it to chik fil a , why not I though. Cows are notoriously hard to distract and even harder to get several grazing to all look at a camera. But I thought why not see if Chik fil a would want it ....I imagine not. Photoshop can do the same. Still though I cannot accept money until I get my 107. So again, I’m getting that ASAP.
Thanks again! Great to meet you
Will.

Good to hear back Will.

I hate to be "that guy" but even though your work isn't "for sale" you are still operating well outside of Recreational (~44809) guidelines and by default operating "illegally" under Part 107. It's very important to understand that "exchange of money (beer, tickets, food etc)" is but ONE way to pierce the protective bubble of ~44809.

If every aspect of your flight is not purely recreational (for you and your personal enjoyment only) it is, by default, Part 107. To add insult to injury, the person soliciting you to operate your UAS illegally is also liable and to a higher monetary degree than you are. So you're putting more than just your ability to fly in the future under Part 107 in jeopardy.

Here are some key components to the FAA's Recreational Exception:

What is a Recreational Flight?​

Many people assume that a recreational flight is one that is not operated for a business or any form of compensation. But, that's not always the case. Financial compensation, or the lack of it, is not what determines if the flight is recreational or commercial. The following information can be used to help you determine what rules you should be operating under. Remember, the default regulation for drones weighing under 55 pounds is Part 107. The exception for recreational flyers only applies to flights that are purely for fun or personal enjoyment. When in doubt, fly under Part 107.

• Note: Non-recreational purposes include things like taking photos to help sell a property or service, roof inspections, or taking pictures of a high school football game for the school's website. Goodwill or other non-monetary value can also be considered indirect compensation. This would include things like volunteering to use your drone to survey coastlines on behalf of a non-profit organization. Recreational flight is simply flying for fun or personal enjoyment.

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

 

[Eaglesky77]

Good to hear back Will.

I hate to be "that guy" but even though your work isn't "for sale" you are still operating well outside of Recreational (~44809) guidelines and by default operating "illegally" under Part 107. It's very important to understand that "exchange of money (beer, tickets, food etc)" is but ONE way to pierce the protective bubble of ~44809.

If every aspect of your flight is not purely recreational (for you and your personal enjoyment only) it is, by default, Part 107. To add insult to injury, the person soliciting you to operate your UAS illegally is also liable and to a higher monetary degree than you are. So you're putting more than just your ability to fly in the future under Part 107 in jeopardy.

Here are some key components to the FAA's Recreational Exception:

What is a Recreational Flight?​

Many people assume that a recreational flight is one that is not operated for a business or any form of compensation. But, that's not always the case. Financial compensation, or the lack of it, is not what determines if the flight is recreational or commercial. The following information can be used to help you determine what rules you should be operating under. Remember, the default regulation for drones weighing under 55 pounds is Part 107. The exception for recreational flyers only applies to flights that are purely for fun or personal enjoyment. When in doubt, fly under Part 107.

• Note: Non-recreational purposes include things like taking photos to help sell a property or service, roof inspections, or taking pictures of a high school football game for the school's website. Goodwill or other non-monetary value can also be considered indirect compensation. This would include things like volunteering to use your drone to survey coastlines on behalf of a non-profit organization. Recreational flight is simply flying for fun or personal enjoyment.

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

Wow you have been a huge help. Thank you. I assumed wrongly that since I did this video as a favor and not selling it to profit that I was ok!! Wrong I am! I just wonder how many like myself are to know these fine details you know unless they have done the 107 Certification and learned it there. You are very helpful though. Thank you for this information. Now I know.

 

[BigAl07]

Wow you have been a huge help. Thank you. I assumed wrongly that since I did this video as a favor and not selling it to profit that I was ok!! Wrong I am! I just wonder how many like myself are to know these fine details you know unless they have done the 107 Certification and learned it there. You are very helpful though. Thank you for this information. Now I know.

Glad to help.

You don't know what you don't know that's for sure.

Sadly, many actually have researched this and are either thick headed or they simply refuse to believe it's true.

Safe flights

Allen