Real Estate use

DTC709 · May 5, 2018

Hello from Eastern Canada,
I know several real estate agents and have been in contact with them about supplementing their listings with affordable aerial photography, the response is solid.

But I have been reading the regs, and so far I can’t see anything to get around the 30m from houses and such.

‘The pilot operating under this exemption shall operate a UAV at a lateral distance of at least 100 feet from the general public, spectators, bystanders or any person not associated with the operation.’

Even in my fairly rural area, where I’d imagine I wouldn’t have a issue, but would still like to follow the rules, this makes a overlapping radius of effect that I cannot avoid. Have I missed something that could help me out? And pointers would be appreciated.

Simmo · May 5, 2018

Thats just the nature of the beast unfortunately. You need to plan a flight that showcases the property but in keeping with the rules.

RKX · May 5, 2018

It sounds like you are reading the SFOC rules. (not the recreational drone use) Do you have an SFOC exemption from transport canada? Or are you just taking photos on your own? Technically it is illegal for you to use your drone for any monetary use. (transport canada considers it commercial use and your are required to get an sfoc approval (takes months for a single planned flight approval) and there are a bunch of other requirements (full insurance for commercial flight etc)

If you are making Money (including monetization on youtube for any videos) The government considers you a commercial operator and any fines they levy against you will be at the commercial level. for example, a recreational drone user breaking a rule is up to 3g in fines. however if you are considered a commercial operator for any reason by them fines I believe start 5 grand and can jump up to 25 grand.

I've had a few people who think I should get into this. but it's a nightmare in canada to get permissions, insurance and run a govt approved drone (depending on the approval you are getting). It's like anything you do to make money on the side. it's got inherit risks. But it's best to know that you in this case would be considered and fined as a commercial drone pilot should someone complain or something go wrong.

DTC709 · May 5, 2018

RKX said:
It sounds like you are reading the SFOC rules. (not the recreational drone use) Do you have an SFOC exemption from transport canada? Or are you just taking photos on your own? Technically it is illegal for you to use your drone for any monetary use. (transport canada considers it commercial use and your are required to get an sfoc approval (takes months for a single planned flight approval) and there are a bunch of other requirements (full insurance for commercial flight etc)

If you are making Money (including monetization on youtube for any videos) The government considers you a commercial operator and any fines they levy against you will be at the commercial level. for example, a recreational drone user breaking a rule is up to 3g in fines. however if you are considered a commercial operator for any reason by them fines I believe start 5 grand and can jump up to 25 grand.

I've had a few people who think I should get into this. but it's a nightmare in canada to get permissions, insurance and run a govt approved drone (depending on the approval you are getting). It's like anything you do to make money on the side. it's got inherit risks. But it's best to know that you in this case would be considered and fined as a commercial drone pilot should someone complain or something go wrong.

I was just going by this flow chart, less then 1kg for work is just fill the online exemption form as far as I can tell. But as per usual I’m sure it’s still not that straight forward.

But then I guess to apply for said exemption, you must ensure to comply with all the regs, so if something where to go wrong and you were found violating the 30m rule/ built up area rule. As you said it would be commercial level fines

RKX · May 5, 2018

DTC709 said:
View attachment 37352

I was just going by this flow chart, less then 1kg for work is just fill the online exemption form as far as I can tell. But as per usual I’m sure it’s still not that straight forward.

But then I guess to apply for said exemption, you must ensure to comply with all the regs, so if something where to go wrong and you were found violating the 30m rule/ built up area rule. As you said it would be commercial level fines

Hmm, that's a new flowchart

Hadn't seen that one yet. Thanks for posting it

Yes it's still confusing.

Who must apply
Whether you need a certificate depends on:

why you are flying (for work or research, or for fun)
how much your aircraft weighs

If you fly a drone for anything other than fun, we consider the drone a UAV that is being used for work or research. Examples include:

survey work
agricultural work
inspections
academic research
police work
aerial photography and videography, including for real estate

If you get payment or other commercial benefits for using your UAV, your flying is considered non-recreational.

So even those the chart says you don't need to apply, they still say in the text of their site that you do need to apply. But we'll ignore that a minute. I've gone through the exemptions and you have all the required insurance coverage etc.

Any person conducting operations under this exemption shall subscribe for liability insurance covering risks of public liability at the levels described in subsection 606.02 (8) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations and in any case shall have no less than $100,000 in liability insurance coverage pertaining to the operation of the UAV system.

minimum insurance cost for drone flight in commercial use is minimum 800 a year

You also need the following

A copy of the following documents shall be accessible to any person conducting operations under this exemption:

The exemption;
Proof of liability insurance coverage;
Name, address and telephone number of the UAV operator;
A copy of the UAV system operating limitations; and
Evidence that the training required in condition 40 has been completed.
A person conducting operations under this exemption shall immediately produce any of the documents and/or information listed in condition 12 to a peace officer, police officer, or Transport Canada inspector upon request.

Article 40:
Pilot Training Condition

The pilot conducting operations under this exemption shall have the appropriate knowledge, training on the UAV system and qualifications for the area and type of operation, as referred to in Transport Canada Advisory Circular 600-004.

Even with these exemptions you are still bound to tougher rules that can rule out your flying.

The pilot operating under this exemption shall only operate a UAV at least five (5) nautical miles away from the centre of any aerodrome listed in the Canada Flight Supplement or the Water Aerodrome Supplement, excluding heliports.
The pilot operating under this exemption shall only operate a UAV at least three (3) nautical miles away from the centre of any heliport listed in the Canada Flight Supplement or Water Aerodrome Supplement or any aerodrome not listed in the Canada Flight Supplement or Water Aerodrome Supplement.

this would rule out any urban area In most places, note these are not the simple recreational 5km or 1.8km radiuses. These are the 9km 5km rules

Plus you are required to report every flight to the minister (even without getting the sfoc if you go by that chart section)
Reporting Conditions

Any person operating under this exemption shall, prior to the commencement of operations, notify the Minister, in writing, of:
1. Their name, address, telephone number and e-mail;
2. The model of UAV(s) being operated including serial number(s), where appropriate;
3. The type of work being conducted;
4. The geographic boundaries or area(s) where the operation will be conducted; and
5. Confirmation that:
  1. the exemption has been read and understood;
  2. flights will only be conducted in Class G airspace;
  3. flights will only be conducted at the applicable distance from the centre of any aerodrome as specified in conditions 26 and 27; and
  4. flights will only be conducted at the applicable distance from built-up areas specified in condition 29 of this exemption.

And that's just the major stopping points. there is a whole lot of other conditions that would ground you (the radio interference one is particularly nasty and vague)

Getting an sfoc is just as bad, you still have all the same rules and limits I put here, plus 40 more, and the sfoc takes months to get approved in writing from tca.

it's sick. For you to fly without needing the sfoc you need to meet 43 individual requirements. The insurance is the killer here as they require aviation liability insurance, which as stated minimum is about 800 for the year.

On the plus side. you can break the 30m rule providing....

While complying with condition 29 above, the pilot operating under this exemption shall operate a UAV at a lateral distance of at least 100 feet away from any building, structure, vehicle, vessel, animal or persons unless:

The building, structure, vehicle, vessel or animal is the subject of the aerial work; and
Only persons inherent to the operation are present.

BUT you still can't break the 9km/5km rules. so if the houses you are taking pics of are in an airport or heli port zone you still can't fly.

Now that my brain hurts

I think I'll get some sleep after that

cheers and happy flying

DTC709 · May 6, 2018

RKX said:
Hmm, that's a new flowchart Hadn't seen that one yet. Thanks for posting it

Yes it's still confusing.

Who must apply
Whether you need a certificate depends on:

why you are flying (for work or research, or for fun)

how much your aircraft weighs

If you fly a drone for anything other than fun, we consider the drone a UAV that is being used for work or research. Examples include:

survey work

agricultural work

inspections

academic research

police work

aerial photography and videography, including for real estate

If you get payment or other commercial benefits for using your UAV, your flying is considered non-recreational.

So even those the chart says you don't need to apply, they still say in the text of their site that you do need to apply. But we'll ignore that a minute. I've gone through the exemptions and you have all the required insurance coverage
And that's just the major stopping points. there is a whole lot of other conditions that would ground you (the radio interference one is particularly nasty and vague)

Getting an sfoc is just as bad, you still have all the same rules and limits I put here, plus 40 more, and the sfoc takes months to get approved in writing from tca.

it's sick. For you to fly without needing the sfoc you need to meet 43 individual requirements. The insurance is the killer here as they require aviation liability insurance, which as stated minimum is about 800 for the year.

On the plus side. you can break the 30m rule providing....

While complying with condition 29 above, the pilot operating under this exemption shall operate a UAV at a lateral distance of at least 100 feet away from any building, structure, vehicle, vessel, animal or persons unless:

The building, structure, vehicle, vessel or animal is the subject of the aerial work; and

Only persons inherent to the operation are present.

BUT you still can't break the 9km/5km rules. so if the houses you are taking pics of are in an airport or heli port zone you still can't fly.

Now that my brain hurts I think I'll get some sleep after that

cheers and happy flying

Haven’t seen them write easy to understand legislation yet lol

Yeah the liability coverage cost would have to come down considerably, for it to be feasible as a side gig.

And if you click the ‘fill the form’ highlight on the side chart under ‘you don’t need permission’ it’ll bring you to a online form listing with input sections for the information you listed. Photos attached.

And yeah, the airport rule will still always be in place. So that would cut into prospects as well.

The rules seem to be progressing and if us a

community can do our part all we can hope is at some point they will become reasonable, or at least not get more restrictive. Thanks for your response!