Rules and being responsible

[migmatite67]

I’m a very new recreational pilot and strive to always fly responsibly. I would like a little input on the rule saying do not fly over people. I took some video along a cliff side walking path the other day and it made me wonder if I was not following rules completely. I picked an area to launch that was back off the path and went up to 200 ft and proceeded out over the bay a bit. I hovered there, took the video and brought the drone back over myself to land. My question is when I moved the drone out over the bay a bit I did fly over the walking path briefly. I honestly do not remember if people were exactly beneath me when I moved out over the bay. Would this be considered flying over people under the rules? I do watch for other aircraft when I fly because sometimes the area I’m in there are smaller aircraft that fly lower and I make sure I stay well away from their line of flight. Thank you in advance for any responses.

 

[BigAl07]

Flying "Over People" is pretty cut and dried. If no people on the path then NO you weren't flying over people. If even a single person was ever directly under (or in the path if the aircraft had a catastrophic failure) you would be considered at fault.

Welcome to the forum

 

[brett8883]

I’m a very new recreational pilot and strive to always fly responsibly. I would like a little input on the rule saying do not fly over people. I took some video along a cliff side walking path the other day and it made me wonder if I was not following rules completely. I picked an area to launch that was back off the path and went up to 200 ft and proceeded out over the bay a bit. I hovered there, took the video and brought the drone back over myself to land. My question is when I moved the drone out over the bay a bit I did fly over the walking path briefly. I honestly do not remember if people were exactly beneath me when I moved out over the bay. Would this be considered flying over people under the rules? I do watch for other aircraft when I fly because sometimes the area I’m in there are smaller aircraft that fly lower and I make sure I stay well away from their line of flight. Thank you in advance for any responses.

Technically you just can’t fly directly over people so when going over a path like that just find an opportunity when there are no people to make the cross

 

[Thomas B]

Good advice above.

 

[ZX14-R]

Their is a Populous rule when evaluating people and places. Basically it is a risk assessment on your behalf.

If you are flying over a stadium full of people and you drone falls out of the sky it is MOST likely it will hit someone.

If you are flying over the same stadium and their is ONE person running around it is UNLIKELY that you will hit someone.

Common sense prevails in most cases.

This rule can be used for most areas including flying your drone over a road/highway/houses....

This is based on Australian standards and may vary in different areas/countries.

It is always a good idea to say where you are flying as their are so many different rules and standards.


I am sure their are a lot of yes and No replies to this but....

Cheers

 

[Thomas B]

Question for the OP.... Are you in the U.S.?
If so the advice from @BigAl07 above is the answer.

 

[BigAl07]

Their is a Populous rule when evaluating people and places. Basically it is a risk assessment on your behalf.

If you are flying over a stadium full of people and you drone falls out of the sky it is MOST likely it will hit someone.

If you are flying over the same stadium and their is ONE person running around it is UNLIKELY that you will hit someone.

Common sense prevails in most cases.

This rule can be used for most areas including flying your drone over a road/highway/houses....

This is based on Australian standards and may vary in different areas/countries.

It is always a good idea to say where you are flying as their are so many different rules and standards.


I am sure their are a lot of yes and No replies to this but....

Cheers

Well said ^^^^ but those don't work in the US. If the aircraft flies over even a pinky toe of one person it is Over People.

The OP is in the US (NJ it seems).

 

[migmatite67]

Thank you all for the responses. I am in the US and currently working in Rhode Island. I live in Georgia so I’m not sure where NJ came from. Sometimes my computer thinks I’m somewhere that I am not. Kudos for technology lol. I failed to remember this forum was world wide when I asked the question.

This just reinforces to me to always plan flights thoroughly. When I left the hotel with the drone my intent was to go somewhere along the coastline and get some footage of the ocean and shoreline. I should have done a little more assessment of the actual site I picked before launching. Lesson learned and hopefully others will read and learn from this as well.

I’m thinking I will work on putting together a pre-flight checklist for myself that includes public safety as well as equipment checklist. I’m a safety professional so this shouldn’t be a huge effort and will definitely be helpful.

Regards,

Richard

 

[ZX14-R]

Well said ^^^^ but those don't work in the US. If the aircraft flies over even a pinky toe of one person it is Over People.

The OP is in the US (NJ it seems).

so if you are flying a someone walks under your drone when it is 100M in the air you are at fault??

I am sure the 30m rule works the same you can fly from people at or over 30m but if they continually walk or encroach on you then you can not be held liable?

 

[BigAl07]

so if you are flying a someone walks under your drone when it is 100M in the air you are at fault??

I am sure the 30m rule works the same you can fly from people at or over 30m but if they continually walk or encroach on you then you can not be held liable?

Over is OVER! There are no height requirements for flying OVER people.

If you can’t control the area under your aircraft and someone walks under, you’re at fault for continuing the flight.

 

[Thomas B]

so if you are flying a someone walks under your drone when it is 100M in the air you are at fault??

I am sure the 30m rule works the same you can fly from people at or over 30m but if they continually walk or encroach on you then you can not be held liable?

#1 - Yes is the simple answer. One reason you should have liability coverage.
#2 - For the specific instance you use, flying over people, the law does not specify what people can and can’t do, but it is very specific about not flying over people. The people are not encroaching in any regulatory or legal sense. You have no legal right to fly over them.

 

[migmatite67]

#1 - Yes is the simple answer. One reason you should have liability coverage.
#2 - For the specific instance you use, flying over people, the law does not specify what people can and can’t do, but it is very specific about not flying over people. The people are not encroaching in any regulatory or legal sense. You have no legal right to fly over them.

Pretty black and white.

Stay safe.

 

[sar104]

Flying "Over People" is pretty cut and dried. If no people on the path then NO you weren't flying over people. If even a single person was ever directly under (or in the path if the aircraft had a catastrophic failure) you would be considered at fault.

Welcome to the forum

I've come to the conclusion that the recreational rules regarding flying over people are unclear. Part 107 is arguably unambiguous:

§107.39 Operation over human beings.​

​

No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless that human being is:​

​

(a) Directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft; or​

​

(b) Located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.​

But there was no such clear language in Section 336, and it isn't mentioned in Section 349. That leaves us with the AMA Safety Handbook:

I will avoid flying directly over unprotected people, moving vehicles, and occupied structures.​

That's not nearly as proscriptive as the Part 107 language. Then there are the FAA website guidelines:

Never fly over groups of people, public events, or stadiums full of people.​

​

That's a completely different slant, implying that incidental operation over individuals is permissible.

 

[Thomas B]

Wonder if 336 will be deleted or converted after everyone in the U.S. will have to pass some version of 107 exam to legally fly their drone?

 

[brett8883]

I've come to the conclusion that the recreational rules regarding flying over people are unclear. Part 107 is arguably unambiguous:

§107.39 Operation over human beings.​

​

No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft over a human being unless that human being is:​

​

(a) Directly participating in the operation of the small unmanned aircraft; or​

​

(b) Located under a covered structure or inside a stationary vehicle that can provide reasonable protection from a falling small unmanned aircraft.​

But there was no such clear language in Section 336, and it isn't mentioned in Section 349. That leaves us with the AMA Safety Handbook:

I will avoid flying directly over unprotected people, moving vehicles, and occupied structures.​

That's not nearly as proscriptive as the Part 107 language. Then there are the FAA website guidelines:

Never fly over groups of people, public events, or stadiums full of people.​

​

That's a completely different slant, implying that incidental operation over individuals is permissible.

Nice catch!! So it actually isn’t a rule for Rec pilots then? Kinda like E101 never had a height limit despite what the FAA was was leading everyone to think?

 

[old man mavic]

I’m a very new recreational pilot and strive to always fly responsibly. I would like a little input on the rule saying do not fly over people. I took some video along a cliff side walking path the other day and it made me wonder if I was not following rules completely. I picked an area to launch that was back off the path and went up to 200 ft and proceeded out over the bay a bit. I hovered there, took the video and brought the drone back over myself to land. My question is when I moved the drone out over the bay a bit I did fly over the walking path briefly. I honestly do not remember if people were exactly beneath me when I moved out over the bay. Would this be considered flying over people under the rules? I do watch for other aircraft when I fly because sometimes the area I’m in there are smaller aircraft that fly lower and I make sure I stay well away from their line of flight. Thank you in advance for any responses.

before you take off you need to look all around yourself to make sure no one is within 30 mtrs of you not under your control,if all is well then you are clear to fly the same goes for crossing the foot path make sure it is empty before you cross it, when it is time to land you need to be aware of any people in the area and only land if it is clear, if someone is standing close by inform them that you intend to land and ask them to stay where they are till you have done so for their own safety, that person is then deemed under your control if they choose to ignore you then that is their choice, even if you follow all the rules, it is inevitable that at some point during a flight that you are going to fly over someone, unless you are miles from anywhere you have no more control over other people than you do over the weather, just use common sense as with any flying machine the take off and landing are the most challenging time of a flight there is a vast difference between flying over people at 300ft whilst moving ,and hovering over people at 50ft

 

[kingsnake11]

The new rules in Canada are pretty clear about when you can fly over people. The basic answer is never, and similar to the part 107 rules above. There are exceptions. If you have the basic certification, then it's simple, you may not fly over people not engaged directly as part of your crew. The same allowance for people in structures and stationary vehicles applies. If you have the fully certified advanced certification, you may fly over people IF and only IF your drone is also certified for advanced operations and is certified to fly over people. The DJI sUAV's on the approved advanced operations list in Canada are not certified to fly over people. They (Spark, Air, Pro series for example) are certified for operations in controlled airspace (if you do all the paperwork etc) and are certified for operations near people (within 5 meters...or 16.5 feet for my American friends horizontal distance). Again, by people, they mean anyone not involved in the direct operations of your machine. I would not be surprised if the FAA will likely adopt a similar interpretation in the new online certification process in the US.

 

[migmatite67]

Great info. Thank you. I honestly see no reason to fly over people. You can get any shots by adjusting the camera and heights. as others have mentioned, controlling and being aware of surroundings. This has been great information and will definitely heighten my awareness. Thanks again to everyone for responding.

 

[theDRONEranger]

SAR104 is correct with publishing of the FAA and AMA excerpts. I too point out, that recreational flyers, if they choose to fly under the safety rules of the AMA, would be prohibited from flying within 25 feet of persons and NOT over occupied structures.
Amazingly, it seems that for both flying over a stationary (hard top) vehicle with occupants is permitted, by omission! But, not a structure (AMA)???

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/105.pdf

I would lean toward the FAA myself on this one!

 

[Milo187]

so if you are flying a someone walks under your drone when it is 100M in the air you are at fault??

I am sure the 30m rule works the same you can fly from people at or over 30m but if they continually walk or encroach on you then you can not be held liable?

In the US ... yes