Scotland: Can I fly my MM in this places?

[Avistu]

Hi all UK drone enthusiasts,

In two week I´ll be traveling to Edinburgh to start a six day road trip and I am planning to take my Mavic Mini along with me for non commercial purposes. I already have Air Maps but also have downloaded the NATS’ Drone Assist app so I understand those would suffice for the air transport and regulation part of "check where you can fly".

However I am a bit confused on how National Parks and National Trust work. I understand that NT won´t allow drones to be flown from within the boundaries of their locations although I found this NT map by Zocalo on this thread but I am still struggling with the layers to make it work. And I can´t find anything updated about drones and National Parks, so I am not sure if I can fly them in any, none or some.

To give you a better idea, our not-so-slow-travel route will be:

21&22 Edinburgh - NoFly
22 route that includes The Hermitage, Pitolcry, Commando memorial, Lake Garry, Fort Augustus, Loch Ness, Urquhart Castle, Eilean Doine Castle
23 route that includes Kyleak Lighthouse, Portree, Storr, Rubha Nam, Kilt Rock viewpoint, Quiriaing, Duntulm viewpoint, Duntulm Castle, Uig, Castle Ewen, Dunvegan, The Duirinish stone, Neist point lighthouse
24 route that includes Kyle of Lochard, Glencoe, Stalker Castle, Kilchurn Castle, Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park
25 route from Edinburgh that includes The Kelpies, Stirling, Willina Wallace, Perth
26 back to Spain

Do you know how is the situation in any of the above mentioned areas?

Tips, hints, advice and no-no´s are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[gnirtS]

The UK doesnt have a no national-park rule like some places. It depends on the owner.
You're correct in saying NT dont allow drone flying from their land (but you can fly over it) but this isnt always an issue as most NT land is crisscrossed by public roads, beaches and so on. And to be honest, if its the middle of nowhere, nobody around, who cares. The WORST they can legally do to you is ask you to stop. Its not a law, its their land policy.

You're correct in using Drone Assist to get no-fly zones (Edinburgh is mostly out due to a congested area and proximity to airport...). Just make sure you're using the correct layers as not all of them refer to drone flying.

Make sure you're aware of the laws and regulations such as 400ft height, distance from people, congested areas, visual line of sight etc.

Ultimately in most of those areas listed, if its not a no-fly zone (most arent) and you can comply with the drone code then go ahead.
The scenery will be stunning.

 

[Congoblue]

You're correct in saying NT dont allow drone flying from their land (but you can fly over it)

There have been discussions on here stating that you can't fly over it either, at least not within a drone's permitted 120m height.

But as you say, most of it is open countryside and nobody will care. The one thing I would avoid is flying near NT buildings (stately homes etc) as they will intervene if you do that, and have a track record of going after people who post stuff on youtube which has been recorded near/over their buildings.

 

[gnirtS]

There have been discussions on here stating that you can't fly over it either, at least not within a drone's permitted 120m height.

Quite simply, provided you're following the ANP/CAP drone rules its perfectly fine.

N.T. are one of the most dishonest bodies around for this (they utterly hate drones and photographers, a very nasty organisation).

They keep falling under "by-laws say no" for things. However, their by-laws (last updated in the 60s...) are available free online and other than not allowing operation of motorised devices on their land say nothing else what-so-ever. Certainly nothing drone specific.
Also, the by-laws state the maximum punishment - you can be asked to leave the property by the officer.

As you said, they're a fairly abhorrent organisation, they do attempt to bully and persecute photographers and videographers (drone and land based) often with completely invalid reasons and attempt to scare them into a settlement despite the fact if it went to court, they'd lose as theres no case.

FWIW the latest by-laws from 1965 are here:- https://nt.global.ssl.fastly.net/documents/the-national-trust-byelaws-1965.pdf

Good luck finding anything at all to do with drones in there...... Those ARE the latest ones, ive had it confirmed by them in writing.

 

[Congoblue]

Well they have pursued people in civil court cases for overflying their property, see these two previous threads.

Detailed National Trust property NFZ map

Found this a few days back and just posted a link to this within the Flying in England thread, but given how useful it is figured it deserves it's own thread to make it easier to find. For those that don't know, The National Trust has a bylaw that bans the use of drones on any of their...

mavicpilots.com

National Trust Properties

Has anybody had any issues flying over or near National Trust Properties? Flying drones at our places

mavicpilots.com

This may or may not be legally valid, but they clearly have money to waste on taking individuals to court. So personally I would avoid flying over NT property where they have staff as I do not want to be accosted and told to leave the property. Open countryside locations I would not worry about, although they specifically say on their website that you can't fly there either. The byelaw they claim covers drone flying is their section 11, part b:

Driving, Parking and Mooring of Conveyances
11. (a) No unauthorised person shall:
(i) Moor, park or leave on Trust Property any conveyance except in mooring sites or parking places provided by the National Trust.
(ii) Leave any conveyance between sunset and sunrise in any parking place on Trust Property.
(iii) Ride or drive any conveyance over or upon Trust Property otherwise than upon roads, tracks and waterways authorised for the use of such conveyance.
(iv) Use any part of Trust Property in connection with any race, hill climb, rally, regatta, or other similar function involving the use of any conveyance.
(b) No person shall ride or drive any conveyance to the danger or annoyance of or without due consideration for other persons resorting to Trust Property.
Note: In this Byelaw “conveyance” includes any air, land or watercraft vehicle or machine other than wheelchairs and perambulators. Subparagraphs (i) and (ii) of paragraph (a) shall have no application to pedal cycles.

 

[gnirtS]

They'd never get the annoyance or without due considering if nobody is within 100m or so of the drone. Wouldn't wash in court.
As i said, National Trust are a horrific organisation that needs to be destroyed. Anti drone, anti photography in general and really found of trying to intimidate and scare people.

In fact, its no different to the existing civilian annoyance/harassment laws which already exist.

But ultimately, they haven't managed to prosecute or pursue anyone at all full term. Unfortunately so far they haven't gone after anyone with the resources to launch a counter suit about their claims and alleged bye-laws (that'd be a useful crowdfunder).
Ultimately they have no legal power to stop overflight whether they claim to or not.

 

[Congoblue]

Unfortunately so far they haven't gone after anyone with the resources to launch a counter suit about their claims and alleged bye-laws (that'd be a useful crowdfunder).
Ultimately they have no legal power to stop overflight whether they claim to or not.

I completely agree with what you say, but I don't like getting into arguments and would rather not be a legal test case so will avoid flying near NT staff.

 

[gnirtS]

I completely agree with what you say, but I don't like getting into arguments and would rather not be a legal test case so will avoid flying near NT staff.

Thats your own decision (and everyone should make their own decision). Personally, i do fly over NT land (its hard not to given the borderline illegal way they get gifted massive chunks of the UK) but its always hillsides, beaches and rural areas. I do not and never would go to a national trust property (i) because they dont interest me and (ii) because i refuse to give NT any money.

 

[Avistu]

@gnirtS , @Congoblue , many thanks for your input, your feedback and your tips. As locals, that is much appreciated!

Apologies if I couldn't reply before but I had been traveling and now I am in home confinement, as all of Spain, due to the State of Alarm being declared last week to stop the spreading of COVID-19.

My trip to Scotland has not been cancelled, only postponed We have rescheduled our tickets, accommodation and rented car for September, and then we will use your advice with the drone.

Thanks again.

 

[aga]

Well they have pursued people in civil court cases for overflying their property, see these two previous threads.

Detailed National Trust property NFZ map

Found this a few days back and just posted a link to this within the Flying in England thread, but given how useful it is figured it deserves it's own thread to make it easier to find. For those that don't know, The National Trust has a bylaw that bans the use of drones on any of their...

mavicpilots.com

National Trust Properties

Has anybody had any issues flying over or near National Trust Properties? Flying drones at our places

mavicpilots.com

This may or may not be legally valid, but they clearly have money to waste on taking individuals to court. So personally I would avoid flying over NT property where they have staff as I do not want to be accosted and told to leave the property. Open countryside locations I would not worry about, although they specifically say on their website that you can't fly there either. The byelaw they claim covers drone flying is their section 11, part b:

Driving, Parking and Mooring of Conveyances
11. (a) No unauthorised person shall:
(i) Moor, park or leave on Trust Property any conveyance except in mooring sites or parking places provided by the National Trust.
(ii) Leave any conveyance between sunset and sunrise in any parking place on Trust Property.
(iii) Ride or drive any conveyance over or upon Trust Property otherwise than upon roads, tracks and waterways authorised for the use of such conveyance.
(iv) Use any part of Trust Property in connection with any race, hill climb, rally, regatta, or other similar function involving the use of any conveyance.
(b) No person shall ride or drive any conveyance to the danger or annoyance of or without due consideration for other persons resorting to Trust Property.
Note: In this Byelaw “conveyance” includes any air, land or watercraft vehicle or machine other than wheelchairs and perambulators. Subparagraphs (i) and (ii) of paragraph (a) shall have no application to pedal cycles.

This is the first sensible advice I’ve seen on this topic! Most commentators simply repeat the mantra that it’s the CAA that controls airspace and therefore they can ignore everyone else. I’m currently researching what the Scottish equivalent of the English 1965 bye laws is - National Trust Scotland is a separate organisation and I cannot yet find its equivalent rules. It’s also worth noting that the body responsible for historic monuments in Scotland takes a similarly tough line on drones.