Technical Feasibility Reality Check

[Chaosrider]

I'm pretty sure that my next Great Leap Forward in my drone community/business development efforts is going to be FPV. I'd like to describe my objective, and get feedback from people more knowledgeable than I am about whether it will technically work, and what the up-front cost would be.

I'd like to get a full FPV combo, Fly More if such a thing exists, with two sets of goggles. Both the conventional controller that comes with it, and the hand wand. I want both of the googles to receive the same video signal from the FPV drone, in real time.

What I want to be able to do is provide an experience very similar to dual instruction in a conventional aircraft.

Will that work, technically? Either natively, or with some tinkering?

How much would that set-up cost? My image is $2500 - $3000, but I don't really know.

Thanks for any wisdom that you can provide!



TCS

 

[vindibona1]

I think FPV can be incredible and takes another level of skill. I've been thinking of getting an FPV kit, but it wouldn't be a DJI. I want something that is component based, so if I crash it as all FPV pilots do eventually, I can replace the parts and repair it myself. But the DJI FPV does split the difference between the Mavic lineup and pure FPV. I wonder how RID is going to effect FPV when it's fully implemented?

But overall, as I see some FPV footage on TV or in movies and just have to admire the skill involved in some of those shots. I can't imagine that the kind of skill required for really good FPV flying is done without hours and hours of practice.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

The 'wand' may be a brilliant thing if you want to do drone racing etc. or will move only vertically, in yaw and forwards. BUT it offers NO side-ways movement and VERY little reverse. Also, the drone's gimbal is pure FPV only i.e. encounter any side-wind and the camera tilts, encounter gusty side winds and you may get 'sea sick'.

 

[Lob's Falcon]

I sure do wish you luck with it and eagerly await seeing the results. I know that dji sells electronics kits that you can fit to any chasis. Be sure to keep flying and smiling in the meantime!

 

[Dale D]

I'm pretty sure that my next Great Leap Forward in my drone community/business development efforts is going to be FPV. I'd like to describe my objective, and get feedback from people more knowledgeable than I am about whether it will technically work, and what the up-front cost would be.

I'd like to get a full FPV combo, Fly More if such a thing exists, with two sets of goggles. Both the conventional controller that comes with it, and the hand wand. I want both of the googles to receive the same video signal from the FPV drone, in real time.

What I want to be able to do is provide an experience very similar to dual instruction in a conventional aircraft.

Will that work, technically? Either natively, or with some tinkering?

How much would that set-up cost? My image is $2500 - $3000, but I don't really know.

Thanks for any wisdom that you can provide!



TCS

I, for one, cannot tolerate watching FPV footage. I get nauseated, as though I were actually in the cockpit. It is not a medium I would be happy with. To each his own, I say.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

I get nauseated,

Is that watching a monitor in the house etc. or using goggles or both?
I think Alex Markov's FPV videos are superb BUT wearing goggles I feel I have to lean against something otherwise

 

[MA2 317]

BUT wearing goggles I feel I have to lean against something otherwise

Me too.

FPV to me is the First Person Vomiting. ....

 

[BigAl07]

I, for one, cannot tolerate watching FPV footage. I get nauseated, as though I were actually in the cockpit. It is not a medium I would be happy with. To each his own, I say.

I was afraid of that until I got more into it. The older "analog" goggles didn't bother me much because the resolution was low. I was surprised how well I did with the new DJI FPV goggles without getting the least bit "woozy". Then I downloaded and installed the DJI FPV Simulator. After installing it and running it, about 4 minutes in I'm GREEN and had to lay in the floor to keep from falling off the floor LOL! I was slightly nauseated all evening long and I've not fired up the sim SINCE that time.

 

[Dale D]

Is that watching a monitor in the house etc. or using goggles or both?
I think Alex Markov's FPV videos are superb BUT wearing goggles I feel I have to lean against something otherwise

Actually, it WAS Alex's FPV flying that made me decide I didn't like it. (Not Alex's work- which is great, but the flying or the goggles. all the same queasiness to me!!!

 

[Chaosrider]

I think FPV can be incredible and takes another level of skill. I've been thinking of getting an FPV kit, but it wouldn't be a DJI. I want something that is component based, so if I crash it as all FPV pilots do eventually, I can replace the parts and repair it myself. But the DJI FPV does split the difference between the Mavic lineup and pure FPV. I wonder how RID is going to effect FPV when it's fully implemented?

But overall, as I see some FPV footage on TV or in movies and just have to admire the skill involved in some of those shots. I can't imagine that the kind of skill required for really good FPV flying is done without hours and hours of practice.

I'll definitely get the DJI FPV, when I can scrounge up the money. I'll get the Care Refresh with it too. Beyond replacing a busted prop, which I've had to exactly once, I'm not at all interested in doing the repair work myself.

When I do finally get it, my self-training will be organized systematically, and very incrementally, just like I did with learning the Mini-2.

Good question about the RID impact. I think, eventually, RID will make it fully legal to fly FPV without a VO, but I don't expect that to happen soon.

Thx,

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

The 'wand' may be a brilliant thing if you want to do drone racing etc. or will move only vertically, in yaw and forwards. BUT it offers NO side-ways movement and VERY little reverse. Also, the drone's gimbal is pure FPV only i.e. encounter any side-wind and the camera tilts, encounter gusty side winds and you may get 'sea sick'.

I have no interest in racing, but I do want to fully control in 3 dimensions.

The wand can't do that?? Really?

That seems odd.

I thought the DJI FPV had a "tame" mode, that let you fly while retaining some/all of the standard DJI wind resistance. Not so?

Thx,

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I sure do wish you luck with it and eagerly await seeing the results. I know that dji sells electronics kits that you can fit to any chasis. Be sure to keep flying and smiling in the meantime!

Oh, I will indeed!

Given my financial realities, this is unlikely to happen soon.

Sadly...

But it will happen!



TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I, for one, cannot tolerate watching FPV footage. I get nauseated, as though I were actually in the cockpit. It is not a medium I would be happy with. To each his own, I say.

Feeling like I'm in the cockpit is *exactly* the experience I'm looking for!

I've been a Part 61 pilot for 40 years, instrument and multi-engine rated. I've always been unusually good at unusual attitude management. Perhaps, because I have unusual attitudes about so many things...

I don't get airsick.

I was training to be a flight instructor, and I was most of the way there before I ran out of money. There's been a fair amount of controversy about spin training for pilots, and at some point (60s?), somebody concluded that more people were dying during spin training, than spins during actual operations. I don't know if that statistical analysis was correct, but the decision was to delete spin training as a requirement to get your private license.

But I *wanted* to do it! The FBO I was flying from had exactly one airplane that was legal for spins, an old C-150 Aerobat. But I was never able to schedule me, my instructor, the plane, and good spin training weather all at the same time. So, no spin training, until about 10 years ago.

Later in the 80s IIRC, Embry Riddle won a fight with the FAA, and it was determined that even instructors didn't need to get spin training, that spin *awareness* training was sufficient.

I thought that was a crock, at least for me as an instructor. So I found a guy who did spin training in a Super Decathlon, which I took. It was actually a full-up mini-aerobatics course. I was good at it, and I loved it! He taught me a bunch of WWI dogfight maneuvers.

The Mini-2 actually has an FPV mode, which lets the camera move around FPV-ish, without changing the way the drone actually flies. I think it's fascinating.

What I'd *really* love would be if there was someone near me with a DJI FPV who would be willing to give me a demo, which I would happily pay for. Carson City, Nevada, anybody?

Pilot Institute has a free "Deep Dive" course on the DJI FPV, which I may go watch again.

Thx!

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

Is that watching a monitor in the house etc. or using goggles or both?
I think Alex Markov's FPV videos are superb BUT wearing goggles I feel I have to lean against something otherwise

I expect that I'll move around in my chair while I'm flying FPV, just the way I would be moving if I was in the cockpit...

;-)

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I was afraid of that until I got more into it. The older "analog" goggles didn't bother me much because the resolution was low. I was surprised how well I did with the new DJI FPV goggles without getting the least bit "woozy". Then I downloaded and installed the DJI FPV Simulator. After installing it and running it, about 4 minutes in I'm GREEN and had to lay in the floor to keep from falling off the floor LOL! I was slightly nauseated all evening long and I've not fired up the sim SINCE that time.

When I take the plunge (hopefully just figuratively...) I'll definitely log some SIM time before I put the bird in the air!

TCS

 

[vindibona1]

I, for one, cannot tolerate watching FPV footage. I get nauseated, as though I were actually in the cockpit. It is not a medium I would be happy with. To each his own, I say.

I can understand how you might feel that way. I've got some cheap FPV/VR goggles for my Mavic 2 and it is a different world. However a Mavic doesn't fly like a real FPV drone. I'd like to try out real FPV flying for sure.

Perhaps my "roller coaster" trick would work? When I ride a roller coaster, you know, the ones that flip and twist etc, I pretend that I'm "flying" the roller coaster and somehow that puts my brain in a different mode. I think a DJI FPV drone would be cool. I just know that I need to dip my toe in the water rather than jump into an 800 gram projectile cooking at 87mph, able to fly every which-way.

 

[Deleted member 103366]

The wand can't do that?? Really?

Yes really. Watch

It's been a couple of months since I flew the FPV but my recollection is that if you yaw the wand the drone yaws but as soon as you straighten the wand the drone follows so the drone returns to 'straight ahead. If you roll the wand the drone yaws whilst the wand is 'rolled' but keeps the new heading once the wand is vertical.
I could have got roll & yaw of the wand mixed up but the net result is that both yaw and roll of the to he wand control the yaw of the drone.
The throttle trigger merely controls horizontal FORWARD speed, it does not go negative.
Pitching the wand produces climb or descent.
I wanted vertical climb/descent using the wand and you have to pitch the wand to extreme angles to do that, so that uses the fore/aft pitching of the wand. There is nothing left for reverse but I found that if I pitched the wand to 'beyond' the horizontal I got some reverse motion but it is rather awkward to hold that position.

 

[Chaosrider]

I got the answer I hoped for from DJI. It can work!




"Dear Terry，

Thanks for contacting DJI Technical Support.
We value your business with us and your patronage of our products. Rest assured that we will do our best to provide assistance.

The FPV aircraft could connect to more than one Goggles, when the Broadcast mode of DJI FPV is enabled, there is no limit for the number of goggles.
Regarding the price of the device, we will transfer your inquiry to the Online sales department for further assistance.

Your understanding and support are highly appreciated.

Thanks for choosing DJI."

TCS

 

[Chaosrider]

I can understand how you might feel that way. I've got some cheap FPV/VR goggles for my Mavic 2 and it is a different world. However a Mavic doesn't fly like a real FPV drone. I'd like to try out real FPV flying for sure.

Perhaps my "roller coaster" trick would work? When I ride a roller coaster, you know, the ones that flip and twist etc, I pretend that I'm "flying" the roller coaster and somehow that puts my brain in a different mode. I think a DJI FPV drone would be cool. I just know that I need to dip my toe in the water rather than jump into an 800 gram projectile cooking at 87mph, able to fly every which-way.

I'll have to try that trick the next time I'm on a roller coaster!

I've heard a couple of references to the DJI FPV not being "real" FPV. What does that mean, in your view? What constitutes "real" FPV? From the fragmentary comments I've seen so far, I don't think I'll be missing anything I want to do with the DJI FPV.

I've also heard comments suggesting that FPV is unstable, which I don't quite understand. If you're flying a regular fixed-wing aircraft, and you have it trimmed properly, you can throw it around the sky a fair amount, and if you just let go of the controls, it will return to straight and level flight. It won't *hover* of course, but it's stable.

Does the DJI FPV have no comparable stability?

Thx,

TCS

 

[vindibona1]

I'll have to try that trick the next time I'm on a roller coaster!

I've heard a couple of references to the DJI FPV not being "real" FPV. What does that mean, in your view? What constitutes "real" FPV? From the fragmentary comments I've seen so far, I don't think I'll be missing anything I want to do with the DJI FPV.

I've also heard comments suggesting that FPV is unstable, which I don't quite understand. If you're flying a regular fixed-wing aircraft, and you have it trimmed properly, you can throw it around the sky a fair amount, and if you just let go of the controls, it will return to straight and level flight. It won't *hover* of course, but it's stable.

Does the DJI FPV have no comparable stability?

Thx,

TCS

I'm no expert in this area and in fact have no experience in FPV other than VR goggles with a Mavic 2. But I've seen a lot of comparisons and reviews. A DJI FPVer is a true FPV drone, for sure. But IMO it is also somewhat of a niche instrument. A lot of FPV drones are much lighter, are built for aerobatics, crash resistant, but have limited camera resolution and very limited flight time per battery. The "other" FPV drones typically don't have GPS either and I would think would be a lot like flying a Mavic in Atti mode. But I'm not sure because they seem a heck of a lot more stable than trying to fly a Mavic indoors (or anywhere) in atti mode.

Take a look at the video below. The precision blows my mind. It's got to take hundreds and hundreds of hours to develop such skill and this video has to be highly choreographed. Buckle up.