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Town park prohibits drones

MassCoyote

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My town has the following regulations, “
DRONES – UNMANNED AIRCRAFT
Unmanned aircraft systems (UAS), as defined by the FAA, are not allowed in or over the park without a permit from the Parks Dept.”

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought municipalities can prohibit takeoff/landing but, not flyovers. The air would be regulated by the FAA.

If this is correct, would any of you have a link to a FAA explanation?
 
The FAA put out a Fact Sheet for local and state legislators to follow stating the need to confer with the FAA if they want to control airspace. You can find that here: https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/policy_library/media/UAS_Fact_Sheet_Final.pdf

But many local gov'ts try to do this anyway. They have no authority to prevent drones from flying over their property, but that doesn't mean they won't cite you if you fly over their parks.
 
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PM me the link to their website please.
 
It just means you cannot use that area as a take off point nor do they really want you flying it over the area because of the Gravitation of People that come that way.

I have seen some signs now that say no drones near the playgrounds an I can only imagine that it was do to those flying FPV thru the Hoops and under the ladder near the Frisbee toss as it was a perfect track for them to practice and fly thru. ,

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly in the Rain. Land on the Water and fly when no people are out.
 
It just means you cannot use that area as a take off point nor do they really want you flying it over the area because of the Gravitation of People that come that way.
Just because they don't want you to fly over their parks doesn't mean they can prevent you from flying over it. Many towns and cities try to control the NAS, and they can't. We fight this constantly.
 
Only the FAA controls the airspace. You can also fly over public property and should not have any issues as long as you keep 50 or higher. People love to tell you that you can't but other than operating on their property, there is really nothing they can do about it.
 
Just because they don't want you to fly over their parks doesn't mean they can prevent you from flying over it. Many towns and cities try to control the NAS, and they can't. We fight this constantly.
Vic do you recommend proactively providing a copy of the FAA Fact sheet to agencies whose regulations specifically prohibit these types of flyovers?
The FAA put out a Fact Sheet for local and state legislators to follow stating the need to confer with the FAA if they want to control airspace. You can find that here: https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/policy_library/media/UAS_Fact_Sheet_Final.pdf

But many local gov'ts try to do this anyway. They have no authority to prevent drones from flying over their property, but that doesn't mean they won't cite you if you fly over their parks.
 
FAA has control over airspace but the local government always finds a way to argue.
Here is my opinion.

I personally do not debate with police or local authorities because even if I am right, I do not have the legal resources and money to argue in court. If you argue with the police, they can mess with your record and fabricate more charges like the classic trespassing and much more in their repertory.

I do not have the money for that or the time. So when the police show up and like to de-escalate situations and just leave leaving a copy of the law to them with the FAA regulations.

On the other side, If I have the money, I will love to protect our hobby by making sure our rights are not violated like happens every day.
 
Thanks for sharing
 
I would think a simple sign, including possibly an official city ordinance number, would give a city the right to post "No drone flying" at the entrance to city parks. I haven't checked our nearby park, but it is a bit south of the warning area (courtesy of Fly) where I would need airport or FAA permission. It is seldom used, and never hosts soccer practice or much of anything else. It would be good to use after school or on weekends. Of course I'd have to keep the blade guard on my Mini 2, in case kids came along. That would put it over the 450g limit (is that right?). I've got to get out of this backyard.
 
I would think a simple sign, including possibly an official city ordinance number, would give a city the right to post "No drone flying" at the entrance to city parks. I haven't checked our nearby park, but it is a bit south of the warning area (courtesy of Fly) where I would need airport or FAA permission. It is seldom used, and never hosts soccer practice or much of anything else. It would be good to use after school or on weekends. Of course I'd have to keep the blade guard on my Mini 2, in case kids came along. That would put it over the 450g limit (is that right?). I've got to get out of this backyard.
Not sure what limit you're talking about, but the OOP limit is 250 grams, not 450g.

The other weight based limitation in the US is for recreational registration. If your drone is under 250g and only flown for recreational purposes, then you don't have to register it.
 
Not sure what limit you're talking about, but the OOP limit is 250 grams, not 450g.

The other weight based limitation in the US is for recreational registration. If your drone is under 250g and only flown for recreational purposes, then you don't have to register it.
Thanks for the correction. With more than one person talking about 55 pounds, I get mixed up. For the Mini 2, with the standard DJI blade guard, it goes over the limit. I just added motor covers (found them on Amazon). They seem to weigh next to nothing...

Mini 2 motor covers.jpg

mini 2 Motor cover detail.jpg

...and look like they'll keep out crud and water. Come in red or black. Still have to try them out today.
 
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Thanks for the correction. With more than one person talking about 55 pounds, I get mixed up. For the Mini 2, with the standard DJI blade guard, it goes over the limit. I just added motor covers (found them on Amazon). They seem to weigh next to nothing...
Just watch out for overheating when you're flying in hot weather. I had something similar of my original Mini. Wasn't an issue, but I never flew in really hot weather.
 
Thanks for the correction. With more than one person talking about 55 pounds, I get mixed up. For the Mini 2, with the standard DJI blade guard, it goes over the limit. I just added motor covers (found them on Amazon). They seem to weigh next to nothing...

View attachment 148582

View attachment 148585

...and look like they'll keep out crud and water. Come in red or black. Still have to try them out today.

Tried my Mini 2 with the motor covers. Works and flies just fine. This metal is so thin (called aircraft aluminum) you can hardly feel them in your hand. Overlaps the edges of the motors. Should keep the rain out.
 
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FAA has control over airspace but the local government always finds a way to argue.
Here is my opinion.

I personally do not debate with police or local authorities because even if I am right, I do not have the legal resources and money to argue in court. If you argue with the police, they can mess with your record and fabricate more charges like the classic trespassing and much more in their repertory.

I do not have the money for that or the time. So when the police show up and like to de-escalate situations and just leave leaving a copy of the law to them with the FAA regulations.

On the other side, If I have the money, I will love to protect our hobby by making sure our rights are not violated like happens every day.
Your position is very reasonable. I'll add that, if you're going to argue with a police officer, don't do it in the field. There are so many ways that can go so terribly wrong, I won't get into them all here. I'll just say that it's really important to stay calm and respectful with an officer.

The officer might understand the point you make about the FAA setting the airspace rules, and the city council not having the authority to override them, but his department is probably employed by the city government. As long as there's a written ordinance on the books, he knows his chain of command will back him up when he does his job, which is to enforce the laws that the local government passed.

But suppose you are such a smooth talker that, against all odds, you win the argument and he decides to let you go without writing a ticket -- then what? The ordinance is still on the books, and the next officer you encounter in the same place may write you that ticket.

The ONLY place to argue with a police officer is in the safe, neutral environment of the courtroom, where everything is on public record, and a precedent might even be established. And really, understand that your beef isn't with that particular individual officer in the field, it's with the city council (or park district, whatever) that passed the ordinance which contradicts the FAA's authority.

Another way to fight the issue is to go to the city council meeting and speak to them directly. That's probably cheaper and safer than getting involved with the police and courts.
 
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Your position is very reasonable. I'll add that, if you're going to argue with a police officer, don't do it in the field. There are so many ways that can go so terribly wrong, I won't get into them all here. I'll just say that it's really important to stay calm and respectful with an officer.

The ONLY place to argue with a police officer is in the safe, neutral environment of the courtroom, where everything is on public record, and a precedent might even be established. And really, understand that your beef isn't with that particular individual officer in the field, it's with the city council (or park district, whatever) that passed the ordinance which contradicts the FAA's authority.

Another way to fight the issue is to go to the city council meeting and speak to them directly. That's probably cheaper and safer than getting involved with the police and courts.
NO, NO, NO
Chances are you'd never even see the officer in a court room, and even if there, you'd certainly never argue with an officer there.

OTOH, I agree with you that arguing with law enforcement rarely ends well. Why folks want to push jurisdictional issues between FAA and local govt. is beyond me. Just pack up your drone, say "I'm sorry" and move on. If you get caught.

Interestingly, examples of folks actually being cited seem to be vanishingly rare. Anyone have first hand knowledge?
 
Your position is very reasonable. I'll add that, if you're going to argue with a police officer, don't do it in the field. There are so many ways that can go so terribly wrong, I won't get into them all here. I'll just say that it's really important to stay calm and respectful with an officer.

The officer might understand the point you make about the FAA setting the airspace rules, and the city council not having the authority to override them, but his department is probably employed by the city government. As long as there's a written ordinance on the books, he knows his chain of command will back him up when he does his job, which is to enforce the laws that the local government passed.

But suppose you are such a smooth talker that, against all odds, you win the argument and he decides to let you go without writing a ticket -- then what? The ordinance is still on the books, and the next officer you encounter in the same place may write you that ticket.

The ONLY place to argue with a police officer is in the safe, neutral environment of the courtroom, where everything is on public record, and a precedent might even be established. And really, understand that your beef isn't with that particular individual officer in the field, it's with the city council (or park district, whatever) that passed the ordinance which contradicts the FAA's authority.

Another way to fight the issue is to go to the city council meeting and speak to them directly. That's probably cheaper and safer than getting involved with the police and courts.
I will suggest this that may or may not help.

I retired one year ago after over 37 years as a city police officer in Texas. About 4 years ago I helped create and until my retirement commanded our drone unit. I am also a licensed private pilot as well as a Part 107 drone pilot.

All of that doesn’t mean much but I am used to dealing with city councils, legal departments, department policy and familiar with commercial drone operations as well as actual general aviation aircraft.

On occasion I have disagreed with an issue, proposal, city ordinance, etc. I could complain informally and hope someone listens and at least allows me to explain a position. That doesn’t always work.

But…..

There is this little thing we call email. Most people think that it means electronic mail. Nope, the E stands for Evidence. Obviously that isn’t true but essentially it is. Sometimes for a personal belief and sometimes because I did not want to be blamed as a supervisor for failing to supervise, I have fired off emails to all city officials. I could write a paper memorandum if they wish but you can bet that might disappear. I’m going to copy and paste all of it to emails and the mayor, the city manager, the chief, the councilman, etc. will all get copies. It is not even cc’ed. They get added to the direct email.

I have had issues such as this or disagreed with the authority of a city or something similar. A very professionally worded and not accusatory email will sometimes have a profound effect. I have ended several such discussions or situations with an email.

As I said, the email is evidence because they can delete all they want, I could get subpoenas from the carrier and also have my personal and professional email accounts. All you have to do is look at YouTube and any United States Congress hearing and other investigations and see how often they bring emails into it. Typically I even email my personal address when using my departments official email to send to the mayor, chief, etc. That is because my city has a legal authority to control their own internal email accounts including mine and lock them from my view but they can’t get to my personal account.

I might write an email to the city explaining the FAA authority and also any website links (like listed above) that back up a stance. While the individual city council members may or may not care, the legal department might have serious issues with an unlawful ordinance that might cost the city quite a bit of money over an unlawful arrest by an officer upholding the ordinance.

On a couple of occasions I have sent emails and never got an official response but the issue went away.

So, like I said, maybe it will work maybe it won’t. Sending an email to a city legal department, city manager, mayor, chief of police and so on pointing out that they may have passed an unlawful ordinance that may cost them a lot of money in a lawsuit.

With an email as backing, they will have a hard time claiming that they did not know. While that may not stop a lawsuit for an unlawful ordinance, it sure could go into the damage levels if they were told and given official websites to look at showing a potential unlawful activity.

Assuming someone wanted to take that step.

In my opinion…..
 
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