Visual Line of Sight?

[sdpy]

Ok, I'm in Canada. Some crazy absurd laws regarding drones, but I wont rant about that.

How do you define visual line of sight? Our regulations used to state that it was the distance in which you could clearly see your vehicle (for some people it was less than 100m, others maybe 400m). In that time the was a strict limit to no further than 500m.

With a change in regulations they have now removed the cap of 500m and are saying "just fly in vlos".

So, my question is this, if I stand on a hill, have 360* view in any direction, there are no people anywhere within 10 kilometers, can I fly the maximum distance the drone is capable of? Or did they just remove the cap to confuse opperators to make incarceration easier on their end (knowing our government atm I wouldn't put such a dirty trick past them).

Any and all helpful responses are appreciated.

Fyi: I fly the mavic pro

 

[Kilrah]

The usually accepted definition, whether it makes sense or not in practice is that should your video feed and all telemetry data become unavailable you must be able to visually bring the aircraft for a safe landing. Which you can't do if you can't see the aircraft, and see it well enough to say which direction it's pointing and in which direction it's moving.

 

[hewo]

You must be capable. You must be in control. Think about it. Lost capability. Lost control. It envelopes a large arena from aircraft maintenance and preflight assurance checks, awareness of the area to be flown, weather conditions, user knowledge and experience, and so forth

 

[Ken K]

Ok, I'm in Canada. Some crazy absurd laws regarding drones, but I wont rant about that.

How do you define visual line of sight? Our regulations used to state that it was the distance in which you could clearly see your vehicle (for some people it was less than 100m, others maybe 400m). In that time the was a strict limit to no further than 500m.

With a change in regulations they have now removed the cap of 500m and are saying "just fly in vlos".

So, my question is this, if I stand on a hill, have 360* view in any direction, there are no people anywhere within 10 kilometers, can I fly the maximum distance the drone is capable of? Or did they just remove the cap to confuse opperators to make incarceration easier on their end (knowing our government atm I wouldn't put such a dirty trick past them).

Any and all helpful responses are appreciated.

Fyi: I fly the mavic pro

My take on the new Canadian regs is that you and/or your spotter must be able to see your AC without visual enhancement, ie binoculars, telescope, night vision glasses, etc. (prescription eyeglasses are OK). No specific distance limit.
If you fly in the dark (ie at night) your AC must be equipped with the recognized standard navigation and avoidance lights capable of being seen up to 3 miles. Night flying OK given above.

Oh yeah......don't forget to log all your flights.

 

[hewo]

Do you know why distance measurement is not specified? Is it due to variation of drone size color illumination and user inate vision capacity? Nobody has eyesight like the eagle and hawk who can see the mouse at thousands feet elevation?

 

[sdpy]

Oh yeah......don't forget to log all your flights.

What do you mean by logging flights?

 

[sdpy]

Do you know why distance measurement is not specified? Is it due to variation of drone size color illumination and user inate vision capacity? Nobody has eyesight like the eagle and hawk who can see the mouse at thousands feet elevation?

The reason I bring this question up is because I work on a ranch in the middle of nowhere. We monitor cattle activity (births, feeding range, etc) by drone. Because my device is not capable of traveling outside the property boundaries without running out of battery first I would assume I can stretch that limit a bit more.

I've made calls to our local authority for uav regs but there seems to be five answers for every person I ask.

 

[sdold]

I wouldn't worry about it in your case. I would though in most other cases, and the way I define VLOS is the way I do with most things: Would it seem reasonable to an FAA inspector (or maybe a judge or jury) if there was an incident or accident? I think that's the only way to do it since there isn't a precise definition AFAIK.

 

[Ken K]

What do you mean by logging flights?

As per the new Canadian regulations :

901.48 (1) Every owner of a remotely piloted aircraft system shall keep the following records:

(a) a record containing the names of the pilots and other crew members who are involved in each flight and, in respect of the system, the time of each flight or series of flights; and
(b) a record containing the particulars of any mandatory action and any other maintenance action, modification or repair performed on the system, including
(i) the names of the persons who performed them,
(ii) the dates they were undertaken,
(iii) in the case of a modification, the manufacturer, model and a description of the part or equipment installed to modify the system, and
(iv) if applicable, any instructions provided to complete the work.

(2) Every owner of a remotely piloted aircraft system shall ensure that the records referred to in subsection (1) are made available to the Minister on request and are retained for a period of

(a) in the case of the records referred to in paragraph (1)(a), 12 months after the day on which they are created; and
(b) in the case of the records referred to in paragraph (1)(b), 24 months after the day on which they are created.

(3) Every owner of a remotely piloted aircraft system who transfers ownership of the system to another person shall, at the time of transfer, also deliver to that person all of the records referred to in paragraph (1)(b).

 

[hewo]

What do you mean by logging flights?

The apk has flight logs to upload to their cloud

 

[Kilrah]

Do you know why distance measurement is not specified? Is it due to variation of drone size color illumination and user inate vision capacity?

Yep. What matters is you being able to see it properly, and different sizes and shapes can be properly seen at different distances.

 

[hewo]

Yep. What matters is you being able to see it properly, and different sizes and shapes can be properly seen at different distances.

Shouldve merely govt written it so. All that shab rhetoric jargon

 

[JSKCKNIT]

Do you know why distance measurement is not specified? Is it due to variation of drone size color illumination and user inate vision capacity? Nobody has eyesight like the eagle and hawk who can see the mouse at thousands feet elevation?

Example:
Say your house is surrounded by trees. You launch from your backyard, going up 50m to clear the trees. Once you start moving forward, you're going to lose sight of your drone, because of the tree tops. You may have only traveled a lateral distance of 10m.

 

[FLPilotshark]

If the aircraft is out of your sight well then its BVLOS! Ever hear of KISS?

 

[Racin8de]

Fly as long as you or your spotter can visually see the drone before it fades out and you or spotter are not able to see it any longer..The only thing I'm not sure of or not is if the applies to just your eyes or if your spotter can use binnoculars to go even further.. I would assume using binnoculars shouldn't be a problem..Also if you plan on wanting to fly further and with VLOS I would suggest you wrap your drone in a Fluorescent green or orange or any other brite color... The visual distance of the stock colors on the phantoms and mavics fade quickly, I would also suggest to avoid black at all costs even though it does make the drone look cool... Good Luck!

 

[RadioFlyerMan]

The usually accepted definition, whether it makes sense or not in practice is that should your video feed and all telemetry data become unavailable you must be able to visually bring the aircraft for a safe landing. Which you can't do if you can't see the aircraft, and see it well enough to say which direction it's pointing and in which direction it's moving.

That sounds logical from a regulator point of view. And that’s the way it’s going to be.

But from a technology point of view, VLOS as a means of getting your drone back in a worst case scenario is either inoperable and/or unnecessary. If my controller poops out, it comes home. If it can’t come home because of excessive wind, or the battery poops out, seeing it isn’t going to save the situation. If I still have control but no telemetry or screen FPV, I simply kick in RTH. Or if I have FPV and I’m still confused as to orientation and location, kick in Home Lock and pull down on the right stick.

The best VLOS can offer is added protection for not running into something or someone because of the limited view of FPV. As far a saving your drone, regulators don’t care.

 

[BigAl07]

The best VLOS can offer is added protection for not running into something or someone because of the limited view of FPV. As far a saving your drone, regulators don’t care.

Regulations are for AVIATION safety and as you stated have nothing to do with saving your sUAS.

VLOS is in place for SEE & AVOID which is basic for SAFE aviation.

 

[old man mavic]

That sounds logical from a regulator point of view. And that’s the way it’s going to be.

But from a technology point of view, VLOS as a means of getting your drone back in a worst case scenario is either inoperable and/or unnecessary. If my controller poops out, it comes home. If it can’t come home because of excessive wind, or the battery poops out, seeing it isn’t going to save the situation. If I still have control but no telemetry or screen FPV, I simply kick in RTH. Or if I have FPV and I’m still confused as to orientation and location, kick in Home Lock and pull down on the right stick.

The best VLOS can offer is added protection for not running into something or someone because of the limited view of FPV. As far a saving your drone, regulators don’t care.

as you say VLOS is mainly so that you can see obstacles, other flying objects,and respond to such things,what you see on your screen is very limited in field of view,the same as goggles ,and is not going to stop something from flying into you from a blind spot .you need to be able to respond, if for instance ,a low flying helicopter was in your air space ,and you need VLOS to be able to do that safely

 

[hewo]

Example:
Say your house is surrounded by trees. You launch from your backyard, going up 50m to clear the trees. Once you start moving forward, you're going to lose sight of your drone, because of the tree tops. You may have only traveled a lateral distance of 10m.

Yup, there are quite a bit of scenario(s) alike. Sunlight blinding severely inhibits visual contact unless its behind your back which occurs dawn dusk.

 

[Aussie Oldtimer]

Visual Line Of Sight. if you cant see it unaided then its not VLOS.
Some days i can see my drone at 800m others its down to 400m.