What will ADS-B mean for older UAV systems

[Brockrock]

With the soon to arrive ADS-B equipped UAV's on the way, what do we think DJI has planned regarding all of our older, non ADS-B equipped systems - like my P4 and M2P - if anything? Could a simple firmware update 'sneak' in some very serious restrictions that would cripple their performance and range? Will they eventually be considered a threat to the NAS (National Airspace System) once ADS-B is up and running in prosumer level UAV's?

Years ago, I recall reading an article on the FAA website related to UAV regulation, proposed regulations, and the request for industry comment. This was in the early Phantom days. In this article, the defined lifespan of a consumer level UAV was 36 months. These things are lasting a lot longer than that however, especially if fully understood, flown carefully, and continuously inspected and maintained. ADS-B is on the horizon, and the M2P will be around for awhile. I just hope it remains what it is. I very much enjoy using it responsibly.

 

[gnirtS]

Why would id be a threat to older systems ? If you really want ADS-B in then just spend $15 on a DVB-T dongle for your smart phone and build one yourself.

We're talking IN only here not out - remote ID is unlikely to use ADS-B in any way, shape or form for various reasons.

Its also relatively useless in most of the world. Most traffic likely to conflict with a low level drone does not send ADS-B in the first place and some countries aside, wont for the foreseeable future.

 

[zocalo]

What gnirtS said. For ADS-B IN this can be handled at the RC rather than having a dongle on the drone. There might be some issues if you are in the habit of going waaay beyond VLOS range depending on how much coverage you get, but otherwise you should be fine, with no drone retrofits/dongles required.

The UK's CAA is supposedly considering/aspiring to make some form of ADS-B OUT retrospective at some currently undefined date in the future, which could potentially mean that all older drones would need some kind of retrofit to be in compliance, but have acknowledged that this is currently technically infeasible. One approach being considered was to use the RC to provide this information into the system, presumably using some version of the smartphone based drone/pilot location tech that DJI demoed recently, then somehow interfacing it into the ATC system, so a hybrid approach might happen rather than full ADS-B.

Frankly - given we are talking a government agency here - that seems so far off, if it happens at all, that I'd expect most of us will have upgraded to an ADS-B compliant drone long before that becomes the case. DJI is also quite forward looking on this kind of thing so I'd expect them to ship ADS-B out as soon as it's practical for them to do so, even if they're only enabling it for ADS-B in at first, so I think there's a good chance it'll just be a software update for most recent drones if it ever becomes a requirement.

 

[gnirtS]

The main issue with ADS-B out is its already effectively "full". Its time slot based and in busy areas already has issues. Adding multiple drones to this will make the issue worse.
The whole protocol isnt real optimum for low altitude, short range drones so i suspect they'll eventually agree on some new protocol on a higher frequency band designed to be low range and so on. The remote-ID protocols go some way to doing this but someone has to agree a protocol, get it ratified then get it implemented. That is not going to happen soon.

 

[zocalo]

The whole protocol isnt real optimum for low altitude, short range drones so i suspect they'll eventually agree on some new protocol on a higher frequency band designed to be low range and so on. The remote-ID protocols go some way to doing this but someone has to agree a protocol, get it ratified then get it implemented. That is not going to happen soon.

Yep, that seemed to be the gist of what the CAA was getting at (they were talking to a government panel, so keeping it simple). An RC-based interface, presumably using cellular/WiFi for backhaul, that somehow relays the information into the ATC system seemed to be what they were considering. I also doubt very much they would want every drone individually displayed on ATC displays, so my guess would be that it might some kind of indication of a general area where drones are operating that would act as a kind of dynamic NOTAM for low-flying pilots in the area.

As they said - LOTS of both technical, political, and procedural unknowns - so while it's interesting to speculate on, I don't think it's anything we need to worry about anytime soon. DJI also seems to be ahead of the curve on all this and basically setting standards by default, e.g. they implemented NFZs and only now are NFZs are starting to be a legal requirement, so I suspect whatever gets implemented will already be included on more recent aircraft, so it's not likely to be a problem anyway unless you are in the habit of flying your older aircraft.

 

[gnirtS]

Something like FLARM would be more suited than ADSB-Out.

 

[Brockrock]

Good discussion folks. Thanks for the replies. I am sure we will have a lot more to say about this as it plays out over time. In no way am I against it. I just want to understand it fully as it applies to UAV’s.

 

[Sam Trampton]

Why would id be a threat to older systems ? If you really want ADS-B in then just spend $15 on a DVB-T dongle for your smart phone and build one yourself.

We're talking IN only here not out - remote ID is unlikely to use ADS-B in any way, shape or form for various reasons.

Its also relatively useless in most of the world. Most traffic likely to conflict with a low level drone does not send ADS-B in the first place and some countries aside, wont for the foreseeable future.

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[Sam Trampton]

Realy if some idjot is flying a plane that low then they should watch were they are going after all low or high flying birds don't have ADS-B and military are covert all this fuss over ADS-B for your toy drones. The less you got to break down on a drone the better and not be in a false state of security.