Call for input on UAS regulations from the CAA (UK)

[zocalo]

The UK's CAA is running another consulation on the use of UAVs in the UK. I've just completed it and it's quite long, but also very wide-ranging covering class markings and legacy, a number of legislative aspects, operational guidelines and use, so worth the effort. There's a consultation document that you'll need to read (and I'd recommend doing anyway as it contains a lot of information on the likely direction the CAA will take.

Link to the consulation here: Call for Input: Review of UK UAS Regulations - Chapter 1 - Personal details - Civil Aviation Authority - Citizen Space

The closing date for response is 7th September.

 

[mavic3usa]

Do the UK drone flyers just don't care much about this? Are the Brits so used to having there rights trampled by their government, have they given up? This is so far away from freedom even the drone flyers in China are cringing. This makes New York City drone laws look tame. Are you guys seeing this?

You're about to get slammed, maybe want to at least speak up: NEW UK Drone Rules COMING! Everything is about to change?

 

[zocalo]

Some of us do, and provide the CAA with our feedback. I do get the sense that this is all mostly driven by vested commercial interests who would rather hobbyists are not cluttering up "their" airspace with UAVs, but I've seen several of my comments to previous consultations referenced in the follow-up reports (some of which went to parliament), so it's definitely worth speaking up.

Sadly though, it does seem like the UK is becoming one of the more restrictive places to fly a drone for fun compared to some of our peers, and several of my comments to the current consulatation made exactly that point, and how their policies often contradict their stated aims of supporting and expanding the sector.

 

[mavic3usa]

Some of us do, and provide the CAA with our feedback. I do get the sense that this is all mostly driven by vested commercial interests who would rather hobbyists are not cluttering up "their" airspace with UAVs, but I've seen several of my comments to previous consultations referenced in the follow-up reports (some of which went to parliament), so it's definitely worth speaking up.

Sadly though, it does seem like the UK is becoming one of the more restrictive places to fly a drone for fun compared to some of our peers, and several of my comments to the current consulatation made exactly that point, and how their policies often contradict their stated aims of supporting and expanding the sector.

Good for you, I'm glad there's someone paying close attention to what is happening. If half of what is being proposed got implemented here in the US, I would be shocked and alarmed. I watched most of the video and read thru a lot of the details and I know it's only talk and discussion at this point but things like remote ID for sub-250g drone, internet connectivity and remote ID details shared online in a realtime database, instructions in teh remote controller start-up menus with realtime ID checks, point-of-sale requirements, mandatory geofencing for everyone, and more.

 

[PHZ]

It is interesting they are so intrigued by creating more laws. What is the problem they are trying to solve? I doubt it is safety related, as we have not seen a bunch of injuries and deaths from drones. Drone flyers need to unite and push back.

 

[Felix le Chat]

The UK's CAA is running another consulation on the use of UAVs in the UK. I've just completed it and it's quite long, but also very wide-ranging covering class markings and legacy, a number of legislative aspects, operational guidelines and use, so worth the effort. There's a consultation document that you'll need to read (and I'd recommend doing anyway as it contains a lot of information on the likely direction the CAA will take.

Link to the consulation here: Call for Input: Review of UK UAS Regulations - Chapter 1 - Personal details - Civil Aviation Authority - Citizen Space

The closing date for response is 7th September.

In the short term, the only thing the CAA is interested in is generating revenue from licenses for operators, (they're re-inventing the peculiarly British fee-based PfCO that became redundant after the introduction of A2CofC and GVC) temporary waivers, permissions and kickbacks from 'accredited bodies' providing all the spurious training courses that will be 'absolutely necessary '. That's up to the point they can provide enough of a red tape knot to stop the majority of hobby users from even trying to fly, then exclusive licenses to fly the sub-400' airspace will be sold off to big commerce.
I've said it before: the UK and Europe needs a Union of Non-Professional Drone Pilots that can act as a lobby with enough clout behind it to guarantee a proper, valid seat at the regulation table.

 

[Chapperz]

The UK's CAA is running another consulation on the use of UAVs in the UK. I've just completed it and it's quite long, but also very wide-ranging covering class markings and legacy, a number of legislative aspects, operational guidelines and use, so worth the effort. There's a consultation document that you'll need to read (and I'd recommend doing anyway as it contains a lot of information on the likely direction the CAA will take.

Link to the consulation here: Call for Input: Review of UK UAS Regulations - Chapter 1 - Personal details - Civil Aviation Authority - Citizen Space

The closing date for response is 7th September.

The fact that they're 'considering' combining the A1 & A3 categories due to 'stakeholders' ' concerns should tell you all that you need to know about their intentions.

Basically they want to get rid of hobbiest and small companies/freelance drone operators and monopolise the industry. And then you have the UAV section of the CAA who will go along with it in order to make themselves important so as to create work for themselves and keep them relevant.

The input any of us give will be ignored in favour of big money and back-handers, as per usual. Big money has seen a cash cow but the little guys at present are in the way and causing a nuisance so they (stakeholders) are trying their best to vilify us... It's the same old same old.

Then, as with the construction industry, you'll have nobodies begging the government / CAA for the authority to award certificates and licences so they and their buddies can sell courses etc, much like some do, but, this way it's a small club / group of people so the slices of pie are bigger for them.

It's the same old same old... Create a problem that they conveniently have the solution to... It's the same tactics that have been used by nobodies and governments have been using forever to pump the public for money.

Then you have the public who generally seem to think that if they conform it'll make it better in the long run, but, almost invariably the exact opposite is true.

But how do you fight back when the very people in the industry who are considered by the CAA to be authorities on the matter are just kissing arse because all they want to do is line their own pockets....

This who call for input is a farce, they know full well what's going on and what people want / need to be able to operate. Commercially or recreationally.

You may as well go to the beach and piss into the wind.

 

[scro]

I had a read through the consultation document and looked at submitting something for this, but probably like many others found it a difficult read and the questions presented and worded in such a way that responses could be ambiguous to interpret or manipulated to suit a specific agenda.

It seems the Geeksvarna youtube channel engaged with the CAA and the CAA have now provided an email address ([email protected]) to which responses can be sent. This email is also now mentioned in the Call for Input document on page 2 (https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Call for Input Review of UK RPAS Regulation v3_1 (CAP2569).pdf)

This youtube video/live broadcast gives some more detail:

I'm certainly going to write a sensible, polite email with some of my thoughts and ideas on how regulation and rules could be revised for future developments in the world of drones/UAVs, and would encourage others in the UK to do so too!

 

[Chapperz]

If you think this is going to go any other way but to favour the needs of the stakeholders (big business) whereby we are vilified in order to get rid of us to make way... You're very much mistaken.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

"the fact that they're considering combining A1 and A3 categories should tell you everything you need to know about their intentions".

If it was A1 and A2 they were considering I'd maybe be able to agree for some part... Clearly all they want is the hobbiest and independent operations out of the air to make way for the likes of amazon etc.

Mark my words... In thime, all drones will be legally required to be equipped with advanced GPS (RTK) and be paired with a RTK basestaion for safety to make sure it can be flown in the safest manner and doesn't descend into crowds etc. And to have the correct certificates as pilots which will be handed out by a select few or those with deep pockets.

At this point I'd like to to send a big shout out to the so called industry experts who have wormed their way into the CAA who are now deliberately convoluting things in order to make themselves important and keep their jobs. You utter fkn sellouts.

Basically, they're going price out the hobbiest and a lot of the freelancers or people trying to get a foot in the door.

That's the way it's going by the look of it. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

And don't fool yourself in to thinking that they'll read all the emails because they won't... This is just lip service so they can say that they conformed to legislative requirements. The rules were supposed to be reviewed in 2026, and now this? They're clearly trying to hurry things along... Wonder why that is?

 

[Chapperz]

Amazing :


"We’ve worked closely with the FAA and other regulators throughout. Prime Air is one of only three drone-delivery companies that has gone through the rigorous process to earn a FAA air carrier certificate"

Good luck getting your CAA/FAA certificate... Because that's what you're going to need once they have 'simplified' the regulations down to one category... That category being... Payup or fkoff

Translation: unless you have very deep pockets and you have the right friends/connections, forget it...

Utter wankers.

 

[zocalo]

If you think this is going to go any other way but to favour the needs of the stakeholders (big business) whereby we are vilified in order to get rid of us to make way... You're very much mistaken.

The CAA just published their feedback to the call for input, and main takeaway is that the CAA isn't trying to gloss over the results that didn't align with our presumed expectations as to the needs of the big business stakeholders at the expense of hobbyists. The document (a 14-page PDF) can be found here.

I found the demographics section interesting, in that is is either quite skewed and non-representative or the UK's private drone operatators (hobbyist and small businesses operators) tend to be somewhat older than I was expecting, but I think the reality will be a combination of the two due to those who have the time and inclination to complete the survey. It was also heavily biased in favour of individuals and smaller businesses, so now we'll have to wait and see how much weight the CAA assigns to each group's opinions.

Key findings are summarised on pages 10 and 11, but here's the chart from page 10 (page 11 is the raw data for the chart):


IMHO, from a practical perspective BVLOS commercial drone operation Remote ID and some form integration with ATC has to happen, potentially alongside some dedicated airspace allocation, but there's quite a bit of pushback on things that are definitely more optional. Those are going to be the acid test in how the CAA interprets the needs of UAS operators as a whole, especially where they conflict, given the proportion of individuals represented. Combined with the results above, the Pros/Cons section on the final two pages certainly gives a few ideas as to how they might end up leaning on each proposal.

 

[Chapperz]

I was just expecting them to be biased towards big business, like amazon etc.

That said, how are the likes of amazon etc going to adhere to VLOS?

I started watching geeksvana about it and was pleasantly surprised about their proposal which effectively allow drones like the air series to be flown in the same manner as <250g drones... Unless I'm mistaken.

Either way it wasn't as bad as I'd expected it to be for people like me.

One of the reasons I didn't get the air was because of restrictions. Now, I'm eagerly waiting for the air 4, when dji actually put new hardware in the thing instead of just cobbling it together from the parts bin and upgrading the firmware. But that's a topic for another post.

 

[mavic3usa]

^Drone delivery can never be effectively accomplished under the current rules (including VLOS and flight over people/cars/etc). Of course there are other factors involved so yes it is complicated. Either it has to be changed, or waived, or....drone delivery won't be a thing. The latter....that's the stage where we currently are.

 

[Chapperz]

They'll find a way... My bet it's going to be GNSS enabled drones...

 

[zocalo]

^Drone delivery can never be effectively accomplished under the current rules (including VLOS and flight over people/cars/etc). Of course there are other factors involved so yes it is complicated. Either it has to be changed, or waived, or....drone delivery won't be a thing. The latter....that's the stage where we currently are.

I see three realistic models for drone delivery at scale (plus there's probably quite a number of quite niche ones), with widespread flight operations likely to happen in this order:

1. Preset route, point-to-point links. Think blood deliveries between hospitals, supply runs to isolated stores, and the like, or from shore-based launch points to island communities. These will probably include some quite long range routes, and may therefore need quite large drones. There are already plenty of these under trial, and even in commercial operation around the developed world, but currently they are over quite rural routes, or even open water.
2. Rural "Last mile" deliveries. Instead of driving up every farm track, the delivery van can park up at a convenient point and launch several drones to each of the addresses within a few miles concurrently. Batteries can be replaced or charges between launch sites. These will probably use quite small, e.g. DJI Inspire sized, drones. This would also include things like emergeny medicatation deliveries to locations that are cut off. I've read about some interesting trials that don't seem far off realisation, but nothing I'm aware of working at scale and in actual "production" use yet.
3. "Delivery cost no object, must have it now!" mail order deliveries. Early adopters can expect to pay a stiff premium for their packages and, despite what Amazon and the like claim, I think we're still a long way off seeing this being a reality except (maybe) in some very niche and affluent areas surrounding disribution centres. It's not like there's a lot of products that people are going to need with sufficient urgency that traditional rapid delivery options can't do it and it's worth them paying through the nose over the top of that for the priviledge of having it a few hours quicker.

All three obviously require a BVLOS waiver, plenty of which have been granted and, where applicable, include at least some relaxation of flight rules for passing over people and structures. The conditions of that waiver include a lot of safety mitigation for potential losses of control and other mishaps though, and those push the price of operation way up. It's a expensive technical bar to entry, and that's going to nix a lot of business models from achieving viablility, no matter how much clever tech like RemoteID, ATC integration, GNSS navigation, and collision avoidance you have onboard.

 

[mavic3usa]

I see three realistic models for drone delivery at scale (plus there's probably quite a number of quite niche ones), with widespread flight operations likely to happen in this order:

1. Preset route, point-to-point links. Think blood deliveries between hospitals, supply runs to isolated stores, and the like, or from shore-based launch points to island communities. These will probably include some quite long range routes, and may therefore need quite large drones. There are already plenty of these under trial, and even in commercial operation around the developed world, but currently they are over quite rural routes, or even open water.
2. Rural "Last mile" deliveries. Instead of driving up every farm track, the delivery van can park up at a convenient point and launch several drones to each of the addresses within a few miles concurrently. Batteries can be replaced or charges between launch sites. These will probably use quite small, e.g. DJI Inspire sized, drones. This would also include things like emergeny medicatation deliveries to locations that are cut off. I've read about some interesting trials that don't seem far off realisation, but nothing I'm aware of working at scale and in actual "production" use yet.
3. "Delivery cost no object, must have it now!" mail order deliveries. Early adopters can expect to pay a stiff premium for their packages and, despite what Amazon and the like claim, I think we're still a long way off seeing this being a reality except (maybe) in some very niche and affluent areas surrounding disribution centres. It's not like there's a lot of products that people are going to need with sufficient urgency that traditional rapid delivery options can't do it and it's worth them paying through the nose over the top of that for the priviledge of having it a few hours quicker.

All three obviously require a BVLOS waiver, plenty of which have been granted and, where applicable, include at least some relaxation of flight rules for passing over people and structures. The conditions of that waiver include a lot of safety mitigation for potential losses of control and other mishaps though, and those push the price of operation way up. It's a expensive technical bar to entry, and that's going to nix a lot of business models from achieving viablility, no matter how much clever tech like RemoteID, ATC integration, GNSS navigation, and collision avoidance you have onboard.

Good summary. Please see the following video.

 

[123taff]

I was just expecting them to be biased towards big business, like amazon etc.

That said, how are the likes of amazon etc going to adhere to VLOS?

I started watching geeksvana about it and was pleasantly surprised about their proposal which effectively allow drones like the air series to be flown in the same manner as <250g drones... Unless I'm mistaken.

Either way it wasn't as bad as I'd expected it to be for people like me.

One of the reasons I didn't get the air was because of restrictions. Now, I'm eagerly waiting for the air 4, when dji actually put new hardware in the thing instead of just cobbling it together from the parts bin and upgrading the firmware. But that's a topic for another post.

Future business users will not be tied down to VLOS like us mere mortals but the drones will be remotely controlled from ground stations. There is already a scheme being trialled in Northumberland with drones flying urgent NHS medical supplies to remote hospitals and they are being flown from a base in southern England.

Businesses will of course have to pay hansomely for the privilidge.
The 70mph drones taking hospital medical supplies to the skies

 

[Chapperz]

Future business users will not be tied down to VLOS like us mere mortals but the drones will be remotely controlled from ground stations. There is already a scheme being trialled in Northumberland with drones flying urgent NHS medical supplies to remote hospitals and they are being flown from a base in southern England.

Businesses will of course have to pay hansomely for the privilidge.
The 70mph drones taking hospital medical supplies to the skies

Sounds about right... That said, the way I understand the proposed changes to the regulations/weight classes, if they are implemented, we'll be able to fly drones like the air in the same manner as a mini - close to and over uninvolved people so I suppose it's not all bad... I say that because I think they will have to relax things a little to be able to allow the likes of amazon to use drones for delivery... They can't realistically expect to have larger drones delivering goods out VLOS and automated, while telling us we must retain VLOS at all times and remain below 250g.... I don't think they are actually trying to help us, rather just making it easier for them but trying to paint it like they're doing us a favour. Either way, I'm hoping I am right so I can get a air... I only opted for the mini 3 Pro because of the freedom it has. That said, the air 3 is just cobbled together from the parts bin to maximise profits.... The next iteration I suspect will see some nice hardware upgrades. Like a couple of 1" sensors

 

[zocalo]

Sounds about right... That said, the way I understand the proposed changes to the regulations/weight classes, if they are implemented, we'll be able to fly drones like the air in the same manner as a mini - close to and over uninvolved people so I suppose it's not all bad... I say that because I think they will have to relax things a little to be able to allow the likes of amazon to use drones for delivery... They can't realistically expect to have larger drones delivering goods out VLOS and automated, while telling us we must retain VLOS at all times and remain below 250g.... I don't think they are actually trying to help us, rather just making it easier for them but trying to paint it like they're doing us a favour. Either way, I'm hoping I am right so I can get a air... I only opted for the mini 3 Pro because of the freedom it has. That said, the air 3 is just cobbled together from the parts bin to maximise profits.... The next iteration I suspect will see some nice hardware upgrades. Like a couple of 1" sensors

I expect the commercial operators looking to do this at scale are going to have to jump through a lot hoops before they can do BVLOS, and especially so if not on a preset route.

For us mere mortals, I think we'll probably need to have an AVC or some other bit of virtual paper before we can do BVLOS. That's likely to apply regardless of the weight, given the plan seems to be removing some of the differentiation between sub-250g drones and the rest. If so, that's a fair compromise in my book, given how few individuals probably really *need* to do BVLOS for anything. (I actually have done a bit of BVLOS, while overseas where it's not a problem, but it's not something I need to do that often as I generally need to see the image I want in my minds eye, then put the drone in a position to take it. If I can see the scene, then I can almost certainly see where the drone will need to be to create it. Frankly, I'm not sure it's worth all the extra fingernail chewing to keep the nerves under control! )

Also hoping for some really nice upgrades for the Mavic 4 once the regulatory dust has hopefully settled.