Interesting points on POTUS’ tweet about aviation.

[AMann]

Without getting into the red zone here (please be on topic), there’s an interesting POTUS tweet this morning about planes getting too complex to fly.

Personally, I am amazed how fast we’ve come to having such safe means of air travel. Back in the DC-9 days, there were incidents almost every year. The few we do hear about today are so sensationalized and out of proportion compared to the number of human caused incidents with cars and trains.

Look at what our drones can do compared to what RC planes used to do just 10-15 years ago.

Fly by wire? I’m in. Im looking forward to seeing where this technology can go. These are technologically exciting times, and hopefully we use it wisely.

 

[Arkarian]

It’s most likely an engine failure or pilot error. Complexity is a good thing.

 

[John235]

Thought that was what he was saying -- things are much safer now.

 

[AMann]

It’s most likely an engine failure or pilot error. Complexity is a good thing. The president, as usual, doesn’t know what he is talking about.

There really is a mysterious aspect to aviation that many laypersons don’t understand. Its a huge part of society that lacks the knowlege about any scientific principle and don’t even think about simple things like why do airplanes fly.

They just go with the news and believe it for face value. My science students at least ask questions, adults stop doing that and just accept what they observerve or simply hear or read from others without asking logical questions. They see things like flight like this:

 

[Arkarian]

Thought that was what he was saying -- things are much safer now.

No he was saying that aircraft are too complicated when actually that complication has made the skys safer.

There are over 43,000 flights per day on average in the US with virtually no accidents. Yes the planes are very sophisticated but they are still manned by pilots who can fly the aircraft.

 

[John235]

"I am amazed how fast we’ve come to having such safe means of air travel. Back in the DC-9 days, there were incidents almost every year. The few we do hear about today are so sensationalized and out of proportion compared to the number of human caused incidents with cars and trains."

I read this as saying that with far more air hours today, that we no longer hear of accidents as frequently, but that the few we do have are more spectacular and hyped up in the news. I do not think he wants to do away with Pilots, but that fly by wire would be great new technology added to what we currently have. I think he was actually making your point.

 

[BigAl07]

Thought that was what he was saying -- things are much safer now.

John I read his comment exactly as you. He's almost giving a compliment and saying good things about today's aviation and the level of safety (while also giving a well deserved DIG into media and oversensationalism) .

 

[Arkarian]

John I read his comment exactly as you. He's almost giving a compliment and saying good things about today's aviation and the level of safety (while also giving a well deserved DIG into media and oversensationalism) .

Aman’s compliments yes, Trump’s compliments are just based on ignorance.

 

[AMann]

"I am amazed how fast we’ve come to having such safe means of air travel. Back in the DC-9 days, there were incidents almost every year. The few we do hear about today are so sensationalized and out of proportion compared to the number of human caused incidents with cars and trains."

I read this as saying that with far more air hours today, that we no longer hear of accidents as frequently, but that the few we do have are more spectacular and hyped up in the news. I do not think he wants to do away with Pilots, but that fly by wire would be great new technology added to what we currently have. I think he was actually making your point.

I remember when planes had 4 crewmembers on the flight deck, and each one had very specific tasks. When navigation and engineering was first replaced by the first more simple automated systems, the pilots had a lot more to do, making their work less safe as they sometimes were overwhelmed during emergencies. But todays planes are making their jobs safer. Pilots should never be replaced, but technology that gives them more dependable automated systems that help them and the ability to better monitor them without being overwhelmed is important.

 

[sar104]

John I read his comment exactly as you. He's almost giving a compliment and saying good things about today's aviation and the level of safety (while also giving a well deserved DIG into media and oversensationalism) .

He definitely was not complimenting modern technology and safety...

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!​

 

[BigAl07]

He definitely was not complimenting modern technology and safety...

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!​

I didn't see that in the OP's post. My bad.

 

[Arkarian]

I love to watch Air Disasters which is about NTSB investigations that have improved air safety. It is amazing how many crashes in the past were due to human error.

Ripping out all the sophisticated automation and electronics and going back to the human element only would just open us up to disaster again.

Past crashes have resulted from Pilots skipping checklists, becoming disoriented, becoming distracted, and being annoyed by warnings that didn't work right. Now they have automated checklists they have to go through on the screen as well as the onboard computers that assist the pilots. Forgetting to do something like deploying the flaps have been disastrous in the past.

 

[Slim.slamma]

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!

Dumb down so others can stick around
That’s a lot to ask of the world.

 

[kadras]

Back in the DC-9 days, there were incidents almost every year. Since DC-9s are still in service, not sure what the DC-9 days were, asks an engineer who worked at Douglas Aircraft on DC-9s.

Aircraft crash stats published by Boeing in October 2018. https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/company/about_bca/pdf/statsum.pdf

 

[tcope]

Personally, I am amazed how fast we’ve come to having such safe means of air travel.

Look at what our drones can do compared to what RC planes used to do just 10-15 years ago.

Clearly one of you understands technology, airplanes and how they both work.

 

[John235]

I remember when planes had 4 crewmembers on the flight deck, and each one had very specific tasks. When navigation and engineering was first replaced by the first more simple automated systems, the pilots had a lot more to do, making their work less safe as they sometimes were overwhelmed during emergencies. But todays planes are making their jobs safer. Pilots should never be replaced, but technology that gives them more dependable automated systems that help them and the ability to better monitor them without being overwhelmed is important.

Wish I had read the whole actual tweet before I spoke. Still, it seems the thought is for humans to stay in the picture aided, not replaced by smart technology.

 

[Johnmcl7]

I love to watch Air Disasters which is about NTSB investigations that have improved air safety. It is amazing how many crashes in the past were due to human error.

Ripping out all the sophisticated automation and electronics and going back to the human element only would just open us up to disaster again.

Past crashes have resulted from Pilots skipping checklists, becoming disoriented, becoming distracted, and being annoyed by warnings that didn't work right. Now they have automated checklists they have to go through on the screen as well as the onboard computers that assist the pilots. Forgetting to do something like deploying the flaps have been disastrous in the past.

I'm also a fan of Aircrash Investigation and you're right that it's frequently pilot error that is the cause of crashes. When reading up on railway disasters many of them are also an error by the driver such as going through a signal at danger, falling asleep or not following following the speed limits. I was also watching a series from a regional police force about car accidents and unsurprisingly every one of them was driver error.

Yet despite all that there's a strange resistance to computer assistance and while it is possible that these Boeings were taken down by an error which would be tragic, the resolution is to fix how that works not tear it all out. People just seem to accept human error even though it's far more numerous.

 

[AMann]

Back in the DC-9 days, there were incidents almost every year. Since DC-9s are still in service, not sure what the DC-9 days were, asks an engineer who worked at Douglas Aircraft on DC-9s....

Oops, you guys still around? .

Ok, but you have to admit that they’ve been upgraded a bit... good incident data, really shows the safety trend since the 60’s.

 

[ascension]

I sincerely hope that those who post here realize that their opinions about these matters have no more credibility than anyone else's views on this matter.