What Would You Do?

[mavic3usa]

Let's face it: we had our chance and as a community we were pests.

I remember when cellphones were pests, too. Then everybody got one.

 

[mavic3usa]

Back country camping: you are camping somewhere different than I do. I see a very strong "leave no trace" vibe to the whole experience. It is common to see hikers carry a trash bag and pick up trash on the hike back out. In East, it is pretty rare to see much trash once >0.25 mile into the woods and you will be called out for dropping it. This is in places like the "live free or die" state.

Back country campers do more damage to the NPS than any drone could ever do. Yes we continue to allow them to go in and we post rules and regulations to keep the damage to a minimum. Would you agree to allow the same for drones to fly and post rules and regulation (noise ordinances) so as to keep noise pollution to a minimum as well?

Or should we prohibit both back country camping and drones because *some* back country campers have damaged the Park and *some* drone flyers have disturbed the Park and we can't stand for either.

Or, shall we tolerate the back country campers and keep begging them to stop destroying to Park but we'll just mitigate the damage and keep it open to everyone instead of closing it down for everyone....but, let's shut out the entire drone community completely due to 3 or 4 acts over 5 or 6 years because....they are pests.

 

[MS Coast]

It's spiraled out of control. Done

 

[Amichael]

I was not looking to “shame” anyone. There are a lot of people in this forum who have a lot more experience and knowledge about how to handle this than I have. But thanks for your concern.

Hi Hagman,

I apologize for my opinion being an accusation. Poor response control on my part.

 

[guitars555]

In my daily life, I work in marketing, advertising, Social Media, etc and every once in a while, I come across things like this video I will post below. It starts off nice, but within a short amount of time, I see there are some National Park NFZ flights happening. The most infuriating point happens at the 2:33 mark of the video, where the operator is flying over, around, and through a herd of North American Elk that are grazing in the morning at the Oconoluftee Visitor Center inside the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I was surprised that the elk didn't react to the drone. Nonetheless, the video was sent to me from the father of the person who made it, thinking the organization I work with would "love it".

So, my question, what would you do with the video? Report the person, leave it, figure out who to send it to? I am not trying to be a narc or a tattletale, but this is such an egregious act that this individual needs to learn from. What would you do?

Idiot in Great Smoky Mountains National Park

It would seem this person looks up to you and is looking for approval. This gives you the ability to influence them in a positive way. Compliment them on the video and then educate them on their violation. Imo this is the best chance of a positive outcome.

 

[ericole]

In my daily life, I work in marketing, advertising, Social Media, etc and every once in a while, I come across things like this video I will post below. It starts off nice, but within a short amount of time, I see there are some National Park NFZ flights happening. The most infuriating point happens at the 2:33 mark of the video, where the operator is flying over, around, and through a herd of North American Elk that are grazing in the morning at the Oconoluftee Visitor Center inside the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I was surprised that the elk didn't react to the drone. Nonetheless, the video was sent to me from the father of the person who made it, thinking the organization I work with would "love it".

So, my question, what would you do with the video? Report the person, leave it, figure out who to send it to? I am not trying to be a narc or a tattletale, but this is such an egregious act that this individual needs to learn from. What would you do?

Idiot in Great Smoky Mountains National Park

I guess the NPS concerns about "scaring the animals" isn't that valid since they paid it no attention. I'd be more concerned about the countless motorcycles revving through that park that can be heard for miles disturbing the entire area than a drone flying over.

 

[StevenBrodsky]

In my daily life, I work in marketing, advertising, Social Media, etc and every once in a while, I come across things like this video I will post below. It starts off nice, but within a short amount of time, I see there are some National Park NFZ flights happening. The most infuriating point happens at the 2:33 mark of the video, where the operator is flying over, around, and through a herd of North American Elk that are grazing in the morning at the Oconoluftee Visitor Center inside the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I was surprised that the elk didn't react to the drone. Nonetheless, the video was sent to me from the father of the person who made it, thinking the organization I work with would "love it".

So, my question, what would you do with the video? Report the person, leave it, figure out who to send it to? I am not trying to be a narc or a tattletale, but this is such an egregious act that this individual needs to learn from. What would you do?

Idiot in Great Smoky Mountains National Park

Don't waist your time. I am biased though. I think the national park system would be the best place to fly drones anyway. The land mass is so massive, the impact on animals and the land would be nothing. Remember those wildlife documentaries a few decades ago. They where using helicopters, probably with national parks and recreation permission, but helicopters? Drones have no impact compared to a helicopter.

 

[StevenBrodsky]

P.S. If drones are so bad, maybe we need to remove the roads going through the parks to. The polute and kill hundreds or thousands of these animals per year. I just trying to make a point. Drones are like tossing a toothpick out your car window.

 

[Dale D]

Don't waist your time. I am biased though. I think the national park system would be the best place to fly drones anyway. The land mass is so massive, the impact on animals and the land would be nothing. Remember those wildlife documentaries a few decades ago. They where using helicopters, probably with national parks and recreation permission, but helicopters? Drones have no impact compared to a helicopter.

I think it is the responsibility of the rangers to deal with this. If you appoint yourself as the Karen, you might open up yourself to a lot of grief that you are not prepared to deal with. You could get a lot of negative feedback from the poster, or maybe his lawyers. You could experience, believe to or not, a lawsuit, much time with negative remarks, etc.

I am a person who believes that the national park regulations are too heavy handed and broad. The national parks are a treasure to all, with vast swaths of mountains, and land where absolutely body goes. They have made it impossible to even get a permit which could be very tightly limited to areas, and conditions. It would be truly great for me to just put the drone straight up above my head for a panorama and come straight down, being certain absolutely nobody is around me including roads or cars. I am sure I will get a ton of flack from this comment but I am not submitting it for that reason. I think a bit of leeway, permitting, and common sense is due.

To add more to this discussion, I have seen many helicopter, drone, and hot air balloon ride videos advertising African wildlife lodges. Don't these, supposedly bother the wildlife?

 

[ericole]

I think it is the responsibility of the rangers to deal with this. If you appoint yourself as the Karen, you might open up yourself to a lot of grief that you are not prepared to deal with. You could get a lot of negative feedback from the poster, or maybe his lawyers. You could experience, believe to or not, a lawsuit, much time with negative remarks, etc.

I am a person who believes that the national park regulations are too heavy handed and broad. The national parks are a treasure to all, with vast swaths of mountains, and land where absolutely body goes. They have made it impossible to even get a permit which could be very tightly limited to areas, and conditions. It would be truly great for me to just put the drone straight up above my head for a panorama and come straight down, being certain absolutely nobody is around me including roads or cars. I am sure I will get a ton of flack from this comment but I am not submitting it for that reason. I think a bit of leeway, permitting, and common sense is due.

To add more to this discussion, I have seen many helicopter, drone, and hot air balloon ride videos advertising African wildlife lodges. Don't these, supposedly bother the wildlife?

Totally agree. They made a catch-all policy that makes literally no sense. There are 100s of 1000s of acres that no one ever goes to or sees, and a drone flying over it 100' up or more isn't going to bother a single animal - unless it hits a bird I guess!

 

[Riteguy]

Do either of you have any background in wildlife management or is this just your opinions?

So if we let folks do this (because according to you - this was totally safe and non intrusive) - there will be no problems?
So what if there were 10 folks on that day that wanted to do this? How about 20? Still no problem?
Do we put a sign out there that says "Only ten drones at a time can fly over the ELK"?
I'm sure everyone will follow that particular rule.

Do you not see why we shouldn't do this? What if the drone force landed or crashed, right there in the pasture, would that pilot have known what would happen if he tried to retrieve it, or do you?

This very type of careless flight made headline news almost ten years ago when a pilot flew too close to a herd of Big Horn Sheep in Zion NP in 2014 - this was one of the very incidents that caused the NP drone ban in the first place.

I'll take the word of a wildlife biologist. . .

“Drones are a new challenge for Zion National Park and our mission of resource protection,” said Wildlife Biologist Cassie Waters. “Animals can be injured when attempting to escape or avoid drone activity. Drones can also change the natural behavior of wildlife and lead to unnecessary energy expenditures. This has the potential to affect survival and reproductive success in many species. We are therefore really concerned with drones, their effect on wildlife, and our ability to preserve the natural environment.”

Perhaps we are being too permissive in allowing the public to get close to this habitat. That could very well be the case as you can see a well traveled road in the video. If the Elk were to charge a car and cause damage, are we endangering both the public and the wildlife? Where do we draw the line? The National Parks are just like all governmental agencies. Rather than study the effects of drones within their jurisdictions and come to a fair conclusion so the public, including drone pilots have fair usage of public lands, it's easier to just ban them citing safety concerns. As Wildlife Biologist Cassie Waters states, "Animals can be injured when attempting to escape or avoid drone activity. Drones can also change the natural behavior of wildlife and lead to unnecessary energy expenditures. This has the potential to affect survival and reproductive success in many species." As you watch the video in question, the wildlife isn't affected in the least by the actions of the drone. In fact, there is no reaction at all. This is probably a result on interactions with people within the park over a period of time.

 

[Riteguy]

I'm shocked that there are people that see nothing wrong with this video or are defending the pilot with their no-damage-done comments.
There are members here who are agitating for the ability to fly in NPs, this video just strengthens my resolve against them.
As a Utah native, I can't imagine the peace and serenity of my state's numerous parks being disrupted by even one drone.

I will challenge your thoughts here. What damage was done with the video, flying in the area of the elks which appeared to have no-reaction to the overflying drone? I would very much like to see the government allowing access to the National Park System. The park system belongs to everyone, not just the few who favor non-intrusion. By living in Utah, you are way out there in the rugged west where peace and serenity is nearly 100% of the time. That's fine if that's your choice to live there, but you don't have the right to keep a certain group of people out of those areas because you don't like drone noise.

 

[Dale D]

I will challenge your thoughts here. What damage was done with the video, flying in the area of the elks which appeared to have no-reaction to the overflying drone? I would very much like to see the government allowing access to the National Park System. The park system belongs to everyone, not just the few who favor non-intrusion. By living in Utah, you are way out there in the rugged west where peace and serenity is nearly 100% of the time. That's fine if that's your choice to live there, but you don't have the right to keep a certain group of people out of those areas because you don't like drone noise.

 

[Dale D]

I do not have any background in wildlife management and I don't think I need one to have an opinion, and it is my opinion that we are being strongly over regulated. The thought of tens or more of drones is over-dramatic. We have the right to share in the national parks as much as the tree huggers. We are not a stupid group of knuckle draggers! We are , for the most part, civilized, and respectful citizens who are pushing back on over regulation to an extreme. There is no half way or midway compromise. It it total banning, prohibition without any exceptions. We are not purposely annoying wildlife and permitting and reasonable regulation should have been the way to go rather than absolute shutdown. As mentioned, the system belongs to everyone. I,for one, am pushing back. I don't want a group of "wildlife management experts," or any other "experts" take away my rights.

I have never flown in a national park, since I am respectful of the laws, even though I am still entitled to have my alternative opinion. I resent the bullying of the above posts.

 

[StevenBrodsky]

I DON'T FLY "IN" THEM, BUT I SURE DO FLY OVER THEM ANY CHANCE I GET. And, yes, to do it I have to fly BVLOS. See what they make me do. If I was able to take off inside the park, I could maintain VLOS.

 

[MavicFlyer2]

I don't know about everyone else but I am starting to see quite a bit of AI generated content on YT. It's just a matter of time before it will be impossible to determine if a video showing a drone circling the Empire State building or flying across the Grand Canyon or harassing a police helicopter is real or not. Even if it looks real and you can identify the person, place, and the detail....it still might be fake. Especially in terms of "how close" or "when did this happen" or "what was the response." Worth an investigation? Probably, depending on how egregious or if there is other evidence like a bystander video or a police report. When there are hundreds if not thousands of similar videos like this then we all have to go back to our real lives and not trying to prosecute our fictitious lives thru social media taking over. Anyone can fake a drone video dropping contraband into a prison or flying around the Capitol looking for rioters and soon you won't have to know how to fake it, AI can create it for you.

This is to bad and it would be nice to expose it....it's progress as they say I guess....I just wonder were AI stops ?

 

[Andrey2024]

I can fly my drone and not see a single person or car even if I fly from a pullout and maintain VLOS.





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[MS Coast]

I will challenge your thoughts here. What damage was done with the video, flying in the area of the elks which appeared to have no-reaction to the overflying drone? I would very much like to see the government allowing access to the National Park System. The park system belongs to everyone, not just the few who favor non-intrusion. By living in Utah, you are way out there in the rugged west where peace and serenity is nearly 100% of the time. That's fine if that's your choice to live there, but you don't have the right to keep a certain group of people out of those areas because you don't like drone noise.

Last year I was standing in Arches National Park in Utah, away from the road and quietly admiring the beauty of the landscape and one arch in particular. It was quiet except for the wind and the low voices of a few other people nearby and the raspy calls of some ravens in the far distance. I recognized the sound of a Mini 2 climbing and turned around to see a self-absorbed fellow 30 feet away, hunched over his controller and twitching his thumbs and grinning.

Bad reactions from the animals? Well, the human reactions were not good, mine especially. My drone was in the trunk of the car. I spoke to him. Politely. He unconvincingly claimed not to know that he wasn't supposed to fly there. But he walked away down the trail without folding the drone and putting it into his day pack.

It's easy to say that the parks are huge and drones don't matter. It's easy to say that the rangers could police the bad actors in all those vast areas if drones were allowed. And I understand that many people don't have any reverence for wild natural places or any appreciation of a lack of human noise. It's easy to ignore the rules we, as a nation, have made.

But.

National Parks occupy about 85 million acres of the land area of the United States, 3.5 percent. Surely we can find places to fly in the other 2.3 billion acres to fly, and leave that 3.5% just a bit quieter and wilder.