Anyone got a drone up over the London marathon ? Or is it all a NFZ ?

[Yorkshire_Pud]

As in the title. I half expect it to be an NFZ.

 

[sarahb]

I wouldn't know.

 

[mavic3usa]

Exactly the reason why more people don't buy drones. Most have no idea where you can legally use them. If drone flyers are not sure about it, chances are most others don't know either...and, when you don't know, you tend to lean towards "not allowed." What good is a drone if you can't fly it safely over parades and marathons and races and games and other events? Nobody buys a drone so they can film empty pastures, desolate mountains, unoccupied parks, and closed or empty venues. There's only so much of that you can do with that.

If it were up to me, you can safety fly a drone (within reason) any place you can bring a handheld camera (with a few limitations). I'm thinking restricted airspace which is entire reasonable. But closing it off to all drone traffic as a no-fly zone is ridiculous if the only reason is to discourage people from bringing drones so the official won't have to "deal" with it. I get it, even a few drones flying in the area feels unwieldily and unmanageable and unpredictable and sometimes even a bit cringy. But it hasn't been proven to be unsafe. One day, we're going to have to get there or there will be no more drone hobby, this can only prevail for so long. Before long, there will only be 3 types of drones at the event: the sponsors, the news, and the police.

 

[moldorf]

Exactly the reason why more people don't buy drones. Most have no idea where you can legally use them. If drone flyers are not sure about it, chances are most others don't know either...and, when you don't know, you tend to lean towards "not allowed." What good is a drone if you can't fly it safely over parades and marathons and races and games and other events? Nobody buys a drone so they can film empty pastures, desolate mountains, unoccupied parks, and closed or empty venues. There's only so much of that you can do with that.

If it were up to me, you can safety fly a drone (within reason) any place you can bring a handheld camera (with a few limitations). I'm thinking restricted airspace which is entire reasonable. But closing it off to all drone traffic as a no-fly zone is ridiculous if the only reason is to discourage people from bringing drones so the official won't have to "deal" with it. I get it, even a few drones flying in the area feels unwieldily and unmanageable and unpredictable and sometimes even a bit cringy. But it hasn't been proven to be unsafe. One day, we're going to have to get there or there will be no more drone hobby, this can only prevail for so long. Before long, there will only be 3 types of drones at the event: the sponsors, the news, and the police.

LOL...wut? Is that sarcasm?

 

[Robert Prior]

In Canada that would be an "advertised event" and thus you couldn't fly a drone there even if it was authorized for flight over people (most aren't). Unless you got a SFOC, of course.

This site says you can't do it. Four years old post, and no idea how authoritative they are:

Event safety using drones

As spring approaches and the UKs weather improves soon well be seeing more drones taking to the skies than ever before. Drone safety at events is crucial...

dronesaferegister.org.uk

 

[mavic3usa]

In Canada that would be an "advertised event" and thus you couldn't fly a drone there even if it was authorized for flight over people (most aren't). Unless you got a SFOC, of course.

This site says you can't do it. Four years old post, and no idea how authoritative they are:

Event safety using drones

As spring approaches and the UKs weather improves soon well be seeing more drones taking to the skies than ever before. Drone safety at events is crucial...

dronesaferegister.org.uk

Ok but this is different. What you posted is a "restricted" flight which we can all understand even if the rules are overly restrictive....but, it doesn't say NO DRONES. A no-fly zone is like a military base or over a prison or in and around Washington DC and the White House/Capitol where you can't even fly in the region. I would *love* to get within 165 feet of practically anything but the "restrictions" around here are measured in miles not meters. And it usually comes in the form of a TFR. Nobody needs to fly over the heads of people and right on top of the events and the authorities know that which is why they now put you so far back, it makes it impossible to fly a drone at that event because you simply won't see anything. With my M3P, I can standoff several city blocks...but not miles away. It has little to do with safety and everything to do with control.

 

[Robert Prior]

What you posted is a "restricted" flight which we can all understand even if the rules are overly restrictive....but, it doesn't say NO DRONES

Actually, up here drones are specifically banned around advertised events in the Canadian Aircraft Regulations, specifically 901.41:

Special Aviation Events and Advertised Events​

• 901.41 (1) No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system at any special aviation event or at any advertised event except in accordance with a special flight operations certificate — RPAS issued under section 903.03.
• (2) For the purposes of subsection (1), advertised event means an outdoor event that is advertised to the general public, including a concert, festival, market or sporting event.

Canadian Aviation Regulations

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

Even if there is no TFR, drones are still banned without a SFOC.

 

[123taff]

My understanding is that Central London is a VERY difficult area to legally fly a drone due to very closely linked restricted airspaces surrounding the City Airport and the Battersea Heliport, (the busiest Heliport in Europe) There are also Northolt RAF and Redhill restricted airspace and of course Heathrow.
London is the busiest and most congested airspace in the UK.
There are usually Police and commercial news Helicopters which also fly over these events too that complicate the mix.

Flying A Drone In Central London - *UPDATED* 2024 UK Drone Guide — Launch Imagery

Flying drones in London, whether for recreational or commercial purposes, can initially be a daunting thought. The required airspace planning, risk assessment and approval process can take time and if you are new to drone flying, it can be enough to put you off.

www.launchimagery.co.uk

 

[Droning on and on...]

Exactly the reason why more people don't buy drones. Most have no idea where you can legally use them.

I strongly challenge both these assertions.

 

[mavic3usa]

I strongly challenge both these assertions.

Your favorite spot is the Hidden Falls and you don't own a $3k drone or a $3k camera but you want to take pictures. Which one are you going to buy? Or, which one are you not going to buy?

Instant No Drones Sign.

This area (Hidden Falls in Auburn, CA) was a great place to hike & fly drones. Sadly, it has just recently changed it's policy and is prohibiting drone flying in the remote area. Bummer

mavicpilots.com

 

[mavic3usa]

^Obviously there are many factors involved when it comes to buying tech equipment. My assertion is that the strict rules on drones combined with the unknowns are working together to "significantly" keep the recreational drone hobby from growing quickly as it should.

It's been over a decade now, why do you never see more than one other person nearby flying a drone?

If you went for ride on your bike and you saw only one other person on a bicycle all day long, wouldn't that be strange to you? If your city passed a law that said bike cannot ride on the street and bikes cannot ride on the sidewalk, do you think the bike shop in the local strip mall would pack up and leave?

Why do you think there are no drone shops in the area, why do you think there are not [more] US drone builders selling American drones to Americans?

So yeah they sell a million drones a year but if the laws were more clear and people understood better, that number could likely be 2 or 3 million. But I believe there are millions of people who believe a) you need a license to fly one and they don't have one or can't get one, b) there are too many places where you are not allowed to fly and no one wants to spend a lot of money on a drone only to fly it on weekend at the remote lake up north. And finally, they likely believe the fines and penalties for misuse (unintentional or not) are too high of a price to pay, whether this is true or not, it's what they believe and the liability is great (i.e. there are no "accidents").

For example, I will buy a baseball and bat and if I swing foul and that hardball goes thru a car windshield parked in the neighborhood then I will need to invoke my insurance or pay $800 for a windshield; it's an accident. If my FPV goes thru a windshield of a parked car, I could be going to jail that night and a bunch of other bad things...that's the belief. It's probably a crime.

If the DSLR camera had the same restrictions as a DSLR drone, the DSLR camera business would be "out of business" they couldn't sell them.

Who wants to buy an expensive drone only for your local government to ban you from flying one next year, that's the risk? People like you and me, we'll just go fly somewhere else where it's legal. But most people won't bother. You and me can't support this drone hobby forever.

That's my point.

 

[Robert Prior]

I believe there are millions of people who believe a) you need a license to fly one and they don't have one or can't get one

Canada has over 330,000 drones, with about 53,000 registered (all drones over 249 g must be registered). We have just under 90,000 pilot certificates issued (required to fly a drone heavier than 249 g).

(Source: Transport Canada and MadeInCa.ca)

This leads me to wonder how many of the non-registered 280,000 drones are under 250g?

I seriously doubt most are, especially as I've encountered a lot of pilots flying heavier Mavics and Phantoms in restricted airspace (advanced pilot certificate and SFOC required) because they trust that if the drone lets them take off then they are allowed to fly there. (I know, because that's the answer I usually get when I ask how difficult it was to get authorization.)

My working hypothesis is that a significant number of people flying don't realize that you need a license (which you do for 250+g drones) or don't care.

I've flown once with another pilot in the area. It added a layer of complexity as we had to ensure we didn't interfere with the other drone. Given how hard it is to judge distance in VLOS (and how restricted the on-board camera is) if airspace was a congested as the average bike path I'd expect a lot of crashes. I would actively avoid flying beside most of the pilots I've encountered.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Your favorite spot is the Hidden Falls and you don't own a $3k drone or a $3k camera but you want to take pictures. Which one are you going to buy? Or, which one are you not going to buy?

Instant No Drones Sign.

This area (Hidden Falls in Auburn, CA) was a great place to hike & fly drones. Sadly, it has just recently changed it's policy and is prohibiting drone flying in the remote area. Bummer

mavicpilots.com

Not my favorite spot, so it's irrelevant.

To me.

I hope you discern the all-important hidden meaning.

EDIT: Looked at that thread, I've posted an important update for y'all

 

[Droning on and on...]

^Obviously there are many factors involved when it comes to buying tech equipment. My assertion is that the strict rules on drones combined with the unknowns are working together to "significantly" keep the recreational drone hobby from growing quickly as it should.

I don't live in the world you describe. I find I'm free to fly my drones most places I'd like, some extraordinary.

No, I can't fly over busy metropolitan areas like Manhattan, and sure I'd probably do it if I could 'cause the night footage would be cool, but the truth is, I really don't miss it. And I understand and agree with the safety concerns.

What you're missing is not everyone's like you. I'd speculate, in fact, there are a lot more hobbyists like me.

Regardless, the growth of the hobby isn't confined to people that mostly want to fly where they can't. Large sample sizes tend to take on a Gaussian distribution, and the tastes and interests of the drone enthusiast is no different.

Given your perspective, I understand your frustration. I simply don't agree with it, and that itself is refutation of the conclusions you are drawing from a very narrow view.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Why do you think there are no drone shops in the area, why do you think there are not [more] US drone builders selling American drones to Americans?

Because DJI with their volume realizes economies of scale no one else can compete with. It's not like it hasn't been tried.

Also, with their experience and incremental product evolution, they have IP hard to match, or necessarily exceed, to be a viable alternative.

DJI's sales volume increases every year. The number or drones sold in the US is also increasing year after year. This doesn't look like a dying hobby.

And really, the growth of the hobby, not commercial use, is what's driving the expanding rules, restricted zones, etc. The whole thing looks similar to general aviation, which started out like the wild west, but as there were more and more aircraft in the sky, rules proliferated, as did airspace control.

 

[Droning on and on...]

But I believe there are millions of people who believe a) you need a license to fly one and they don't have one or can't get one, b) there are too many places where you are not allowed to fly and no one wants to spend a lot of money on a drone only to fly it on weekend at the remote lake up north.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought 10 years ago when I bought my first drone, a P4, at COSTCO

And DJI is there, every holiday.

And there's BestBuy. And Walmart. Targét (that accent wasn't a typo ). I could go on.

No "drone shops"? Never were any. But there are plenty of stores to walk in, get curious, handle a Mini 4 Pro, read a bit about it, ask questions, and buy one.