Drone blamed for Helicopter Crash in South Carolina

[Sprocket]

Helicopter crashes after evading drone

More discussion on this if you aren't tired of it already.

 

[DroningOn]

Helicopter crashes after evading drone

More discussion on this if you aren't tired of it already.

Looks like the vast majority of those “real” pilots could care less about our plastic toys

 

[Dizzy1971]

I am not defending the drone pilot but how do we know the helicopter didn’t fly in the location of the drone. Automatically the drone pilot is blamed.

Do helicopter instructors have to fly in specific areas and if so do they have to register flight plans or can they fly were they want?

Regardless, quads don’t ever have the right of way over manned aircraft. Unfortunately, if a quad and a manned aircraft cross paths,it’s the quad pilots responsibility. Who knows,maybe the chopper pilot overreacted and crashed because of his own inadequate abilities.....but then again, back to the right of way thing. I don’t see how a quad pilot wins in a scenario like that. Just happy. Those people were ok.

 

[ac0j]

What I find disturbing is that so many people think the solution to idiot drone pilots is laws and regulation,....
because it works so well with firearms, drugs, and drivers licenses........

 

[ascension]

Looks like the vast majority of those “real” pilots could care less about our plastic toys

Until they get in the way.
Then they care about them a lot, as would any "plastic toy," to use your phrase, operator, if the situation was reversed.

 

[Dizzy1971]

Maybe this is going to be a new trend...blame mystical drones for all aviation mishaps.

Better hope not. There’s already so many people who are just against the hobby for reasons they can’t quite convey

 

[Dw911]

Looks like the vast majority of those “real” pilots could care less about our plastic toys

Luckly most 'real pilot's' dont get all hysterical evertime the D word is mentioned and are sensible and rationale people.
They just weight it up along with the many thousands of other risks they face everytime they fly or drive or put their trousers on

 

[joejaxvic123]

Why didn't I think of that?......

 

[sar104]

Brace your self, this may sting a little......
Not every pilot is a model human and incapable of lying to preserve his career.
Just like OJ didnt do it, just like bill clinton "never had sex with that woman" People will create a story to protect themselves from their mistakes. Even some pilots and engineers.

Agreed, but you can easily find counter-examples to discredit virtually any kind of evidence, and so if you follow that logic then you can never accept anything. "Trust, but verify" is reasonable. "Discredit immediately because not all pilots are reliable" is not reasonable.

 

[sar104]

I didn't say it wasn't evidence (that's why I included it in my statement). I don't consider it strong and reliable information, especially coming from two individuals in a highly stressful situation, coupled with a strong motivation to not be completely forthcoming.

The potential to misremember details or information in such situations is well documented:

Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts

The Problem With Eyewitness Testimony

Safety investigators do take pilots' recall into account but it is highly tempered with external evidence. Unless it is corroborated with other evidence, it should be given minimal weight. Quoting researchers in the field relays this idea better than I could in this limited space:

"When memory serves as evidence... there are a number of important limitations to the veracity of that evidence. This is because memory does not provide a veridical representation of events as experienced. Rather, what gets encoded into memory is determined by what a person attends to, what they already have stored in memory, their expectations, needs and emotional state. This information is subsequently integrated (consolidated) with other information that has already been stored in a person's long-term, autobiographical memory. What gets retrieved later from that memory is determined by that same multitude of factors that contributed to encoding as well as what drives the recollection of the event. Specifically, what gets retold about an experience depends on whom one is talking to and what the purpose is of remembering that particular event (e.g., telling a friend, relaying an experience to a therapist, telling the police about an event). Moreover, what gets remembered is reconstructed from the remnants of what was originally stored; that is, what we remember is constructed from whatever remains in memory following any forgetting or interference from new experiences that may have occurred across the interval between storing and retrieving a particular experience. Because the contents of our memories for experiences involve the active manipulation (during encoding), integration with pre-existing information (during consolidation), and reconstruction (during retrieval) of that information, memory is, by definition, fallible at best and unreliable at worst."

Mark L. Howe
Department of Psychology, Centre for Memory and Law, City University London, London, UK

My previous comment still stands. Unless you have counter-evidence the pilot account is primary.

 

[sar104]

Please someone out there help me understand. Would the gusts from the copters rotors not blow a small p4 away from its path ?

It depends on the scenario. I ran a simple calculation a year or so back for a similar discussion on PP. For a typical medium-sized helicopter moving at cruising speed, a Phantom passing under the rotor downwash will be displaced downwards by less than 2 ft before striking the windshield. If the helicopter is moving much more slowly, however, it could certainly be blown out of the way.

 

[Simmo]

One could reasonably assume, that if the instructor was conducting some form of 'low level' tuition, he would be way below the cruising speed of an R22. (over 100 mph.. R22 Series - Robinson Helicopter Company)

 

[WIMMPYIII]

I see a drone or is it a bird or a ufo? Let me take over, we are going to drive ourselves into the ground to avoid it.
And this guy is teaching people how to fly... scary.

 

[DroneJI]

Most aircraft have Blackboxes why don’t they have a Dashcam type device? This would prove fault in most cases, I have a Dual camera dashcam System in my Vehicle and it records a lot of data speed, braking Gs, cornering Gs, gps location etc and it’s all time stamped in the files it creates. Some people that will lie about being at fault will not want these in there Vehicle or Aircraft, but most drones have at least one camera that could be recording. So why not manned aircraft? (And sorry if my spelling is off somewhere I just had my eyes dialeted at the eye dr can’t see anything up close very well till the drops wear off)

 

[Qoncussion]

I didn't say it wasn't evidence (that's why I included it in my statement). I don't consider it strong and reliable information, especially coming from two individuals in a highly stressful situation, coupled with a strong motivation to not be completely forthcoming.

The potential to misremember details or information in such situations is well documented:

Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts

The Problem With Eyewitness Testimony

Safety investigators do take pilots' recall into account but it is highly tempered with external evidence. Unless it is corroborated with other evidence, it should be given minimal weight. Quoting researchers in the field relays this idea better than I could in this limited space:

"When memory serves as evidence... there are a number of important limitations to the veracity of that evidence. This is because memory does not provide a veridical representation of events as experienced. Rather, what gets encoded into memory is determined by what a person attends to, what they already have stored in memory, their expectations, needs and emotional state. This information is subsequently integrated (consolidated) with other information that has already been stored in a person's long-term, autobiographical memory. What gets retrieved later from that memory is determined by that same multitude of factors that contributed to encoding as well as what drives the recollection of the event. Specifically, what gets retold about an experience depends on whom one is talking to and what the purpose is of remembering that particular event (e.g., telling a friend, relaying an experience to a therapist, telling the police about an event). Moreover, what gets remembered is reconstructed from the remnants of what was originally stored; that is, what we remember is constructed from whatever remains in memory following any forgetting or interference from new experiences that may have occurred across the interval between storing and retrieving a particular experience. Because the contents of our memories for experiences involve the active manipulation (during encoding), integration with pre-existing information (during consolidation), and reconstruction (during retrieval) of that information, memory is, by definition, fallible at best and unreliable at worst."

Mark L. Howe
Department of Psychology, Centre for Memory and Law, City University London, London, UK

Exactly...

 

[princeofthehouse]

Most aircraft have Blackboxes why don’t they have a Dashcam type device? This would prove fault in most cases, I have a Dual camera dashcam System in my Vehicle and it records a lot of data speed, braking Gs, cornering Gs, gps location etc and it’s all time stamped in the files it creates. Some people that will lie about being at fault will not want these in there Vehicle or Aircraft, but most drones have at least one camera that could be recording. So why not manned aircraft? (And sorry if my spelling is off somewhere I just had my eyes dialeted at the eye dr can’t see anything up close very well till the drops wear off)

Regarding black boxses actually pretty sure most don't for this size and type. certainly not required to outside commercial planes (mid/big ones) yes but not this case.
also for small vehicles they avoid it due to weight and cost.

 

[rfc]

Key to the investigation will be whether the UAS operator surfaces, either on his/her own, or if DJI has information that can help the NTSB find him/her. If they are successful, presumably they'll have at least the UAS's half of the positional data they'd need to confirm proximity and whether it was warranted (or not), on either pilot's part. Assuming they've already asked the helo pilot "where was the UAS when you saw it", it should not be too hard to see if it conforms with the gps data produced by DJI.

 

[HOOKER1952]

Well as a retired Army Helicopter pilot and having flown OH58s (Jet Ranger), UH1Hs (Hueys) and CH47s (****-Hooks) day, night and NVGs I can personally tell you other then having to watch for other fixed wing aircraft, other rotary wing aircraft and our feathered friends (birds) looking for something as small as a drone while flying 170MPH is not likely going to happen because of your rate of closure when a drone hits a helicopter. I have flown in Europe and have had a few bird strikes and I will tell once they enter the cockpit or ate ingested into one or both of your engines will result in a coin toss as to whether or not your aircraft remains to flyable, the crew is not injured and can autorotaye the aircraft successfully or you crash and burn.

I've experienced all of these except for the burning. Been shot down three times here in the states, twice by shotguns and the other by an idiot using an M203 training round thinking it had a rubber tip. The understanding of big sky little bullet is a fallacy.

 

[ascension]

Most aircraft have Blackboxes why don’t they have a Dashcam type device? This would prove fault in most cases, I have a Dual camera dashcam System in my Vehicle and it records a lot of data speed, braking Gs, cornering Gs, gps location etc and it’s all time stamped in the files it creates. Some people that will lie about being at fault will not want these in there Vehicle or Aircraft, but most drones have at least one camera that could be recording. So why not manned aircraft? (And sorry if my spelling is off somewhere I just had my eyes dialeted at the eye dr can’t see anything up close very well till the drops wear off)

Really bad idea, and most aircraft do not have black boxes.

 

[DroneJI]

Really bad idea, and most aircraft do not have black boxes.

Commercial aircraft