FAA Guidelines or Actual Laws?

[Boog0822]

So I'm just curious to see if anyone knows if these "rules" we fly by are actual enforceable federal laws or are they something more like strong recomendations? I've never really seen any written laws, but that doesn't mean they may not exist... Like the 400 foot AGL flight ceiling rule, if I fly at 475 feet AGL in the middle of know where to get a better aerial photo, is that an infraction that's actually illegal? And what's the punishment for such an infraction? Or am I really not breaking any LAW at all? If I don't notify a heliport within a few miles of my flight is that illegal, or maybe just poor drone etiquette? Now by no means do I go out and try to break rules, I'm just curious as to what everyone else thinks. Thanks in advance.

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[msinger]

The FAA guidelines (suggestions) can be found here. The FAA laws can be found here. It would be wise for most people to treat the guidelines as laws too.

 

[Robert Mitchell]

Like msinger said, you would be wise to treat all guidelines as if they were laws. The catch here is that ignoring guidelines can be interpreted as "careless and reckless" by the FAA at any time, especially if an incident occurs while doing it. You REALLY don't want want be that guy.

 

[SteelFlyer]

For hobbyists, the law is found in 14CFR Part 101. The law requires you to fly below 400' AGL, stay out of restricted airspace and notify airports, heliports and seaplane ports within 5 miles. It also requires you to operate in accordance with community based guidelines such as those published by the AMA. So the law actually requires you to fly according to the "guidelines".


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[msinger]

The law requires you to fly below 400' AGL

There is no such law for hobbyists. It's a great guideline to follow though.

 

[SteelFlyer]

There is no such law for hobbyists. It's a great guideline to follow though.

I agree and disagree with your position on this. Yes, the text of Part 101 (the model airplane hobby rules) does not specify a 400' AGL flight limit. However, the text does REQUIRE "(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;"

These community based safety guidelines are most commonly the ones specified by either the AOPA (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association) or the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) both of which issue guidelines restricting flight to less than 400' AGL. If you have a different set of guidelines from a nationwide community-based organization that you are following, I'd be very interested in seeing them.

Finally, Part 101 also states: "No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system." If you look at the FAA's documents in support of Part 101 and Part 107, they make it fairly clear that they believe operating above 400' AGL would violate this part of the law.

So, while this may be a bit of a gray area in the law, I think the preponderance of evidence suggests that the 400' AGL limit is indeed a true limit that FAA would enforce. Of course you could always test the law and litigate it and let the courts decide for sure.....

 

[msinger]

The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;"

This is also a gray area. If all pilots must follow those guidelines, then they are already doing numerous illegal things -- like flying over cars/houses/people/structures.

As I've stated though, there is no law that states a hobbyist cannot fly over 400 feet AGL. Will the FAA come after you if you're flying high and cause some kind of accident? You can be sure of that one.

BTW, if you chat with some AMA members, they will tell you they are allowed to fly over 400 feet AGL according to their nationwide community-based organization rules.

 

[erkme73]

Isn't this exactly where .gov wants us to be? In an legal state of ambiguity. Without black and white definitions (like traffic laws, for example), there's such a broad gray area of interpretation that no one is confident in what they can and cannot do. And, when enforcement cracks down, that same ambiguity provides them tremendous latitude to bully, intimidate, and ultimately fine a confused population of fliers. If WE can't agree on what is mandated/suggested, how clear do you think it'll be to Johnny-law when he gets on his high horse and tells you your flying is illegal?

 

[f3honda4me]

This is also a gray area. If all pilots must follow those guidelines, then they are already doing numerous illegal things -- like flying over cars/houses/people/structures.

As I've stated though, there is no law that states a hobbyist cannot fly over 400 feet AGL. Will the FAA come after you if you're flying high and cause some kind of accident? You can be sure of that one.

BTW, if you chat with some AMA members, they will tell you they are allowed to fly over 400 feet AGL according to their nationwide community-based organization rules.

Msinger is correct here. Even the AMA doesn't require 400 feet. It's in their FAQ.

Academy of Model Aeronautics - FAA UAS Frequently Asked Questions

 

[SteelFlyer]

Msinger is correct here. Even the AMA doesn't require 400 feet. It's in their FAQ.

Academy of Model Aeronautics - FAA UAS Frequently Asked Questions

Excellent information. I stand corrected. I had downloaded the AMA safety guidelines which do contain a 400' AGL limit. But this letter of clarification helps tremendously.

 

[kvn_roberts]

The only person I have heard of receiving a fine was a guy flying over Great Falls in Virginia and that was because it's a National Park. There is a YouTube video of the Park Police Huey trying to take the drone out of the air with rotor wash. I haven't seen anyone from the FAA running around enforcing laws and most police officers aren't schooled up on drone regulations.... but these guidelines are there for a reason. Safety. I don't want to be the guy that has a mid air because of my own negligence.


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[AlanTheBeast]

Isn't this exactly where .gov wants us to be? In an legal state of ambiguity. Without black and white definitions (like traffic laws, for example), there's such a broad gray area of interpretation that no one is confident in what they can and cannot do. And, when enforcement cracks down, that same ambiguity provides them tremendous latitude to bully, intimidate, and ultimately fine a confused population of fliers. If WE can't agree on what is mandated/suggested, how clear do you think it'll be to Johnny-law when he gets on his high horse and tells you your flying is illegal?

It also provides you (or your lawyer) plenty of ambiguity to present to whatever court you may land in to get you out of the worst trouble you got into. The prosecution should be ready to negotiate a slap on the wrist after a couple go's. (Note: I am not saying this is necessarily cheap). That said, if it can be shown you were "practicing safely" while not technically in compliance with the "guideline" you'd really have to catch Hanging Harriet on her worst day in a decade...

 

[kydroneman]

So I'm just curious to see if anyone knows if these "rules" we fly by are actual enforceable federal laws or are they something more like strong recomendations? I've never really seen any written laws, but that doesn't mean they may not exist... Like the 400 foot AGL flight ceiling rule, if I fly at 475 feet AGL in the middle of know where to get a better aerial photo, is that an infraction that's actually illegal? And what's the punishment for such an infraction? Or am I really not breaking any LAW at all? If I don't notify a heliport within a few miles of my flight is that illegal, or maybe just poor drone etiquette? Now by no means do I go out and try to break rules, I'm just curious as to what everyone else thinks. Thanks in advance.

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I was following some Mavic groups on facebook and one guy who seemed very knowledgeable was discussing the 400ft. RECOMMENDATION and the fact that if you approached a structure that was above 400ft. you could fly over it even though that would put you over the AGL but it seemed perfectly legal and then again the AGL and sea level comes into play also so I'm a little confused to say the least.

 

[msinger]

RECOMMENDATION and the fact that if you approached a structure that was above 400ft. you could fly over it even though that would put you over the AGL but it seemed perfectly legal

Sure, it's legal. But, that only applies to pilots flying commercially.