height limit

[Texas Mavic]

All I know is I went through a lot to get my 107. Over and over again, unless you have to do an emergency evasive manuver you need waivers to fly above 400 agl. If you are on a building or structure, it becomes 400 feet above that structure. Could care less to argue about it. That’s what is taught in the 107 course.

 

[sar104]

I's all so confusing. Some members say you can and some say you can't over 400 ft rule. Where can I read the laws of the FAA on recreational drone flying ?

On the 400 ft issue I posted both the law and the FAA legal response above. Recreational flight is (very lightly) regulated by 14 CFR Part 101 subpart E.

 

[sar104]

All I know is I went through a lot to get my 107. Over and over again, unless you have to do an emergency evasive manuver you need waivers to fly above 400 agl. If you are on a building or structure, it becomes 400 feet above that structure. Could care less to argue about it.

That's correct under Part 107. Not under Part 101. And you obviously do care because you are posting about it.

 

[Texas Mavic]

If you want to fly above it recreationally, knock yourself out. Yield to air traffic and I’m sure you are fine.

 

[tmtwomey]

For now there may not be a law that requires hobbyists to stay below 400' AGL (although it is an FAA rule), but that doesn't mean it is ok to fly above it. Manned aircraft can fly as low as 500' without talking to air traffic control when operating under visual flight rules. That gives you just 100' of separation. New drone pilots need to understand this is a safety issue, not just a legal technicality.

BTW, this is how the FAA posts it on their own site:
Step 2: Review the Rules
It is important to review the rules for flying your drone, prior to your first flight.

• Fly only for fun or recreation
• Follow the safety guidelines of a model aircraft community-based organization
• Fly at or below 400 feet when in uncontrolled airspace (Class G)
• Fly within visual line-of-sight, meaning you as the drone operator use your own eyes and needed contacts or glasses (without binoculars), to ensure you can see your drone at all times.
• Never fly near other aircraft.
• Never fly over groups of people, public events, or stadiums full of people.
• Never fly near or over emergency response efforts.

 

[Texas Mavic]

Thank you. Really it’s all about flying responsibly, and folks wanna test the rules. That’s what gets all of us in a bind, a small group of people out of a bigger group of responsible pilots. “Oh there’s no law.... so there!!! I’m going to go fly at 800 feet F off!!” Then there is an incident. And the RESPONSIBLE pilots have tighter restrictions on us, because of jerk offs. So go ahead buddy fly at whatever altitude your heart desires. Then in a year or two after a bunch of clowns have interfered with air traffic, or some other ridiculous calamity, or even someone gets hurt.... then we are limited to even lower altitudes, or maybe restricted to flying at places hobby feilds and what not. So just be a grown man, respect air traffic and don’t be a moron. Pretty simple.

 

[sar104]

Thank you. Really it’s all about flying responsibly, and folks wanna test the rules. That’s what gets all of us in a bind, a small group of people out of a bigger group of responsible pilots. “Oh there’s no law.... so there!!! I’m going to go fly at 800 feet F off!!” Then there is an incident. And the RESPONSIBLE pilots have tighter restrictions on us, because of jerk offs. So go ahead buddy fly at whatever altitude your heart desires. Then in a year or two after a bunch of clowns have interfered with air traffic, or some other ridiculous calamity, or even someone gets hurt.... then we are limited to even lower altitudes, or maybe restricted to flying at places hobby feilds and what not. So just be a grown man, respect air traffic and don’t be a moron. Pretty simple.

Your responses are getting pretty desperate for a subject that you claim not to care about. You posted:

"That’s not true. Both recreational and commercial drone pilots are limited to 400 feet without waiver. Night flight for “fun” is what is allowed. And even commercial pilots can fly for “fun” but not above 400 feet without proper authorization."​

That is demonstrably incorrect. If you want to change the discussion from the actual laws and regulations to what you, personally, think is acceptable then fine, but stop trying to imply that you were correct, stop with the stupid straw man argument that pointing out the actual regulations amounts to being irresponsible, and lay off the insults.

 

[Texas Mavic]

Yawn.... Wasn’t aimed at anyone here into the thread brother. No need to be defensive at all. We all know “that guy” who pushes the limits for whatever reason. That guy ain’t in here, but that guy puts us all under an umbrella. And I just choose not to challenge the system. Off to fly!!
Only thing I’m desperate for is the wind to come down a few knots here in Houston.

 

[Texas Mavic]

I’m wrong, fly at any altitude. Rock on.

 

[sar104]

Yawn.... Wasn’t aimed at anyone here into the thread brother. No need o be defensive at all. We all know “that guy” who pushes the limits for whatever reason. That guy ain’t in here, but that guy puts all all under an umbrella. And I just choose not to challenge the system. Off to fly!!

Fair enough. I don't even disagree with you on the safety and responsibility part, but let's at least try to get the laws correct when posting - not doing so just results in confusion.

 

[Texas Mavic]

Understood. I have to admit, it was after I got my 107 that I learned that I could also fly as a hobbyist, at night. So I missed NYE footage because I couldn’t get the waiver in time lol... little did I know I could have flown for the kicks of it. I just remember the 400agl, and if you are a structure, it’s 400agl above that. Then cloud cover, I believe you have to be 300 feet below that. And by admission, I have a modified system that is amplified, visual line of sight? Lol nope.

 

[Afremont]

Actually it is true - there is nothing in either 14 CFR Part 101 subpart E or in the AMA Handbook, that puts a blanket height limit on recreational flight. The FAA has also confirmed, in writing, that the 400 ft limit is a guideline - see attached memo.

Until 14 CFR is modified to reflect the new laws passed by Congress in the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018, there is no limit.

But the attached memo is all about 336 and written in 2016. Wasn't that repealed recently? I was under the impression that 101 sets the rules now and it explicitly seems to indicate that 400' AGL is the rule now, not just a recommendation. I'm apparently confused.

Edit: Furthermore since we are supposed to follow the rules of a sanctioned model group, it would seem to require that VLOS is required and no night flying is allowed, unless you know of a different model group (not AMA) that doesn't have those restrictions in their rule set.

 

[sar104]

But the attached memo is all about 336 and written in 2016. Wasn't that repealed recently? I was under the impression that 101 sets the rules now and it explicitly seems to indicate that 400' AGL is the rule now, not just a recommendation. I'm apparently confused.

What, exactly, are you looking at in Part 101?

Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft​

Source: Docket FAA-2015-0150, Amdt. 101-9, 81 FR 42208, June 28, 2016, unless otherwise noted.​

​

§101.41 Applicability.​

This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:​

​

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;​

​

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;​

​

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;​

​

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and​

​

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.​

​

§101.43 Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.​

No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.​

 

[Afremont]

I guess part (b) as I edited into my previous post.

 

[msinger]

But the attached memo is all about 336 and written in 2016. Wasn't that repealed recently?

On October 5, 2018, the President signed the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018. The Act establishes new conditions for recreational use of drones and immediately repeals the Special Rule for Model Aircraft.

Per Section 380 in the The FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018:

"(a) Regulations.—Notwithstanding the repeals under sections 341, 348, 347, and 383 of this Act, all orders, determinations, rules, regulations, permits, grants, and contracts, which have been issued under any law described under subsection (b) of this section before the effective date of this Act shall continue in effect until modified or revoked by the Secretary of Transportation, acting through the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, as applicable, by a court of competent jurisdiction, or by operation of law other than this Act."

The FAA posted this announcement on their website to confirm that these new rules have not yet been implemented. Recreational pilots should continue to follow the current policies and guidelines until the FAA implements this new legislation. Those rules include the following:

• Fly only for hobby or recreation
• Follow the safety guidelines of a nationwide community-based organization
• Fly a drone under 55 lbs
• Never fly near other manned aircraft
• Notify airports within 5 miles before flying
• Fly within visual line of sight (VLOS) of the person operating the drone
• Register your drone with the FAA

 

[Afremont]

I based my first post on this:

Overview of Part 101 regulations

Overview of FAA Part 101 regulations concerning commercial drone operations.

www.airsafe.com

 

[sar104]

I guess part (b) as I edited into my previous post.

The AMA does require VLOS but where, in the AMA Safety Code or AMA Handbook, do you see any reference to staying below 400 ft, except (in the Handbook) within 3 miles of an airport, or any prohibition on night flying?

 

[deleted member 877]

I's all so confusing. Some members say you can and some say you can't over 400 ft rule. Where can I read the laws of the FAA on recreational drone flying ?

To say it's confusing would be the understatement of the year - but as @TexasFlytography pointed out the 400 ft limit is plastered all over the FAA site. Regardless of whether or not this rule/regulation/guideline can be defined as Law is in many ways irrelevant.

For the sake of all drone pilots (professional or otherwise), any reasonable person should have no difficulty understanding that breaching the 400 ft height limit is nothing more than plain stupid. The current and previously mentioned "confusing" situation will eventually (hopefully sooner than later) be resolved with the 400 ft height limit firmly established in iron-clad law. That's a given.

Don't be one of those guys who would do something that, regardless of whether or not it is technically against the law, could potentially cause an incident with the result of further degrading the already tarnished reputation of the wider drone flying community.

 

[brett8883]

Actually it is true - there is nothing in either 14 CFR Part 101 subpart E or in the AMA Handbook, that puts a blanket height limit on recreational flight. The FAA has also confirmed, in writing, that the 400 ft limit is a guideline - see attached memo.

Until 14 CFR is modified to reflect the new laws passed by Congress in the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018, there is no limit.

Well there’s a diamond of a gem! Great work!

 

[Meta4]

What's not been mentioned here is that a flyer can be charged with reckless endangerment at any altitude if they fly in a dangerous way.
That could be at 2000 ft or 200 ft.