Loaning drones and TRUST Cert

[wardtom084]

CBO has not been finalized as far as I know.

 

[Deleted member 137163]

There are a large number of options for renting in the US.

I do believe you for sure but I have heard of "any"....live a sheltered life I guess ha ha. Do you have a link to one? I am curious. Thanks,

 

[Deleted member 137163]

So, are you loaning or selling? 2 different topics.

Skip the liability and sell it! You do not use it. I do not share well with other ;-)

 

[Chaosrider]

Now that I've got 2 drones I rarely use my DJI Mini and may loan it to friends that haven't had the opportunity to fly a drone. I'll tell them they need to get a TRUST cert before flying but some people might not take the time to get one unless there are fines for flying without it.

What is the penalty for flying a drone like the DJI Mini without a TRUST cert?

Is there any liability for the owner of a drone that loans it to others?

Edit - for recreational flying only

I've got a Drone Lending Library to get kids interested in drones (Big kids too!). In addition to telling them about the need for the TRUST certificate, I include a physical flyer that points them to the Pilot Institute FREE TRUST Certificate course.

But after that, I'm not going to be a Drone Cop. I make sure they know they need the TRUST, and I make it easy for them to get it, and I consider that fully sufficient.

MM-FPV!

 

[Deleted member 137163]

I've got a Drone Lending Library to get kids interested in drones (Big kids too!). In addition to telling them about the need for the TRUST certificate, I include a physical flyer that points them to the Pilot Institute FREE TRUST Certificate course.

But after that, I'm not going to be a Drone Cop. I make sure they know they need the TRUST, and I make it easy for them to get it, and I consider that fully sufficient.

MM-FPV!

Wow, very kind of you to do so! Pilot Institute is always my recommendation. Many great FREE and paid courses. I just finished my "after winter" Mavic Air 2 Deep Dive! You can never know too much and everyone can use a review.

 

[PepperBird]

I don't have any friends I would lend my $600 drone to, who have NEVER flown a drone. The End!

 

[Kyklopes]

I've got a Drone Lending Library to get kids interested in drones (Big kids too!). In addition to telling them about the need for the TRUST certificate, I include a physical flyer that points them to the Pilot Institute FREE TRUST Certificate course.

But after that, I'm not going to be a Drone Cop. I make sure they know they need the TRUST, and I make it easy for them to get it, and I consider that fully sufficient.

MM-FPV!

Great post, thanks for the ideas. I want to share mine with friends because I got into the sport after I flew a loaner. I was hooked in about 5 mins!

 

[Kyklopes]

I do believe you for sure but I have heard of "any"....live a sheltered life I guess ha ha. Do you have a link to one? I am curious. Thanks,

7 Drone Rental Sites to Consider

A year is a long time in the drone industry. Most of the headlines focus on the big money deals, new product launches and innovations. But there’s much more going on under the surface. One sector, fo

dronelife.com

 

[Chaosrider]

I assume you remove your details from the drone (if there are any on it, in it) when the drone is lent out?

I don't.

I include a flyer for Savage Drones, and I put a copy of the flyer on the vid card, which I also lend out with the drone.

MM-FPV!

 

[Chaosrider]

It's your drone, registered to you as the pilot. It's all your responsibility and liability.
Check the FAA rules on allowing another person to pilot your drone under your direct supervision.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct.

Do you have a pointer to a specific section of the regs that deals with this?

There are two distinct cases:

1) You give someone a drone to fly while you're there, or
2) You give somebody a drone in a box, for them to use on their own

I have my 107, and I assume that when I let somebody fly one of my drones while I'm there, that I'm responsible for the entire event.

But if I give somebody a drone in a box, to go fly on their own? As long as the drone is in good mechanical condition, and registered if it needs to be, it's not obvious to me that the lender has a lot of responsibility/liability.

But I'd be happy to look at specific reg language that might suggest otherwise, if I get a pointer to it.

Thx,

MM-FPV!

 

[Deleted member 137163]

7 Drone Rental Sites to Consider

A year is a long time in the drone industry. Most of the headlines focus on the big money deals, new product launches and innovations. But there’s much more going on under the surface. One sector, fo

dronelife.com

I imagine that I am not alone in not knowing this existed. Very interesting! Vacation rental.....Trying out "move up" drone prior to plunking down big money. Very interesting and I appreciate you sharing the link. Still working on knowing everything I can about my MA2.

 

[Chaosrider]

There are a large number of options for renting in the US.

Uhhh...not that I've seen.

Part of my Mythical Business Plan is to get people interested by giving them "rides" with a second pair of FPV Goggles, and then teaching them to fly the Mini-2, and then renting them the Mini-2s.

Pretty much exactly the FBO/Dealer model for regular aircraft, into which I poured a great deal of money for a couple of decades!

I'm looking at very affordable rates for the Mini-2 rentals, like $25/day. Check-outs (by me) and insurance will be required, just like with regular aircraft FBOs.

I think it will work, but at this point, the details of the plan are still mythical.

Still, I did finally break down and buy the DJI FPV...I should have it in a couple of days!



MM-FPV!

 

[Chaosrider]

and has a copy of your FAA drone registration

Good point. So far the only drones that I've lent out have been unregistered, but I'll be sure to remember this when I lend one out that is.

Thx!

MM-FPV!

 

[FH828]

How do rental companies get around this issue?

Rentals companies has commercial insurances 4 any mishaps/accidents.

 

[Rich QR]

Do you have a link to the language that says if you don't take the TRUST exam you are subject to ALL of 107 even when flying only for recreation? I would like to share that.

For the liability when loaning question I'm only asking about liability to the FAA. Civil liability is a different issue.

The specific language you're looking for is 49 CFR 44809 (b)

Here's the link to the full text

49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft

www.law.cornell.edu

(b)Other Operations.—
Unmanned aircraft operations that do not conform to the limitations in subsection (a) must comply with all statutes and regulations generally applicable to unmanned aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems.

Subsection (a) referred to in that language is in the link. Please read it for yourself, but I'll paraphrase it to say that, regardless of the normally applicable statutes and regulations that require a license, a person can fly a small unmanned aircraft without a license, if the operation complies with eight limitations. Then it lists the eight limitations. One of them is passing the TRUST certification and carrying proof of that with you. Another one is the requirement to fly strictly for recreational purposes. If you take the TRUST exam, you'll learn about all eight of them, or you can simply read them in the link I posted above.

Then section (b) says (my paraphrase) "If a person doesn't follow all the limitations in section (a), that person is subject to all the normally applicable rules". For typical drone flight, that would probably mean Part 107, but there are other parts that might apply to some operations. For example, an unmanned aircraft greater than 55 pounds can't be flown under Part 107 rules, but might fly under Part 91.

 

[smashse]

The answer is so simple, not sure why it's become such a topic. Before you loan out the drone, sit your friends down at the PC and walk them through the TRUST test. Take 5 mins. And you'll know they have it. Other than that, not sure why this is so not obvious.

I agree. The rPIC, rec or 107, is responsible for the operation. Regardless of the aircraft owner. If the rPIC, the pilot in control of the aircraft, is not licensed or legal, they are 100% responsible for the operation. Then it would still be hard to prove for prosecutors. Some rental places verify your 107 cert before renting, but that's expensive drones for insurance purposes.

Registration is for a drone, and the drone operator does not need to own it. The rPIC still has to carry proof of registration (except for sub250g).

In the Mini 2 case, it is sub250, not needing registration, and the owner is fairly irrelevant. Especially if, as some say they do, inform the user what is necessary, even though legal would fall on the rPIC once again. It is 100% legal to let a person not TRUST certified to borrow a drone, as long as they have a TRUST or 107 certified pilot fly it.

Also, one does not need to be TRUST certified if a107 pilot is available to take control at a moments notice, meaning the 107 person is the PIC, however they are NOT the person operating the controls. I am not sure if that overflows to TRUST as well.

Check this AC, it outlines it pretty clearly.

https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_107-2.pdf

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, consult one before considering the above as true. This is 100% my belief and how I operate based on my 107 training, and reading AC's and FAA rules.

 

[TrabSeyn]

Before I lent one out I'd first want to see some basic flying skills demonstrated, have the party produce a TRUST certificate, and then acquire their own rec registration number to use with the drone while in their possession. This would put liability on the PIC flying under a given set of rules. It sure wouldn't hurt to have your loaner insured in some way - possibly paid for by the "borrower" that would guarantee you get a fresh drone in the event of a mishap (which we all know is a possibility). Not legal advice by any means but would be the responsible way to handle this type of situation. You might want to just sell it to the borrower in payments because the chances they will want to keep it are near 100%......use the funds for accessories, a newer drone, or a 107 exam. Trading up is good for everyone. Since you aren't using it the investment is stagnant and you could create a dependable pilot that could help you out if you wind up needing an extra set of eyes or sticks in the future.

 

[Clintoops]

Where is the language stating the need for a set of approved CBO rules on their person? I need a copy of that.

Yes it's in the regulations What CBO rules you need a copy I have mine on my phone to show if needed and a copy of my trust test.
What might be better is to take your friends on a fly day that way they can fly and ask you questions.
While you both are enjoying flying.
Flying a mini you can lose site of it easy. That can be scary as it is.
If you want to get your friends to enjoy the sport it's better to have them fly with someone that knows what they are doing to make it as fun as possible. Just FYI.
Being some one learning to fly by my self I wish I had some one with me that had all ready made the mistakes I did .

 

[EpicFlight]

This is much simpler than it's being made out to be...

In the US, recreational drone regulations apply to the pilot, not the drone. This is why there are no sales restrictions – a retailer can sell to anyone, without restriction. Any burden to comply with the law while operating the drone is solely the pilot's.

Loan it to someone, it's 100% their responsibility. Like loaning them your car. If they drive over a fruit stand, you have no involvement, even though it's your car.

 

[Kyklopes]

Found this post in another thread:

You don’t have to carry around the handbook, you just need to be able to say you are following either the AMA guidelines or the basic FAA safety guidelines for recreational flyers if asked which CBO rules you are following.

Pro tip: it’s easier to follow the basic FAA safety guidelines for recreational flyers because they are essentially the same as the statutory requirements you have to follow anyway. If you follow the AMA guidelines there are some things they require you wouldn’t have to do under the FAA safety guidelines.

and these links:

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/Editorial_Update_AC_91-57B.pdf

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov