Man arrested for flying drone over deadly Mansfield ATV crash

[¬Nomad]

"I'd argue the opposite. Time the drone community grew up, matured and started self policing. Stop people causing distress, annoyance and interference to other members of the public and try to fix the terrible image that currently exists. "

Well said, though tbh I think the time has actually past and the community has wasted it's chance to show it can self regulate and consider the effects of it's actions on others

The sheer amount of Muppet behaviour on display makes increased regulation inevitable I'm afraid

 

[Lapeer20m]

It isn't a privacy issue - it's an interfering with or impeding an emergency operation issue. If that's what actually happened.

I wish more information was available. The charge of “obstructing official business” sounds like a contempt of cop charge.

In another article i read that the police demanded he turn over the footage and when he refused and this is when he was arrested.

I fly drones for public safety, it’s what I do for a living, so I’m not unfamiliar with how the system works.

Perhaps more charges are pending, but from the information I’ve gathered, those involved did not like the content of what this guy was (potentially) recording and took action.

I’m not suggesting people take photos of fatal accidents as i think it is in poor taste, but I am arguing that taking photos of undesirable things in public is protected by the 1a. The first amendment protects what is unpopular. What is popular doesn’t need protecting.

If this guys actions prevented a life flight helicopter from landing, then he’ll likely be taken to task, as he should. However, if the entire issue is that the investigators didn’t want to be photographed while doing their job or they wanted to prevent photos being taken due to the sensitive nature of the incident, it will likely cost this municipality piles of money.

 

[sar104]

I wish more information was available. The charge of “obstructing official business” sounds like a contempt of cop charge.

In another article i read that the police demanded he turn over the footage and when he refused and this is when he was arrested.

I fly drones for public safety, it’s what I do for a living, so I’m not unfamiliar with how the system works.

Perhaps more charges are pending, but from the information I’ve gathered, those involved did not like the content of what this guy was (potentially) recording and took action.

I’m not suggesting people take photos of fatal accidents as i think it is in poor taste, but I am arguing that taking photos of undesirable things in public is protected by the 1a. The first amendment protects what is unpopular. What is popular doesn’t need protecting.

If this guys actions prevented a life flight helicopter from landing, then he’ll likely be taken to task, as he should. However, if the entire issue is that the investigators didn’t want to be photographed while doing their job or they wanted to prevent photos being taken due to the sensitive nature of the incident, it will likely cost this municipality piles of money.

Agreed - this case seems marginal if the reported information is correct. But I suspect that it was simply because the aircraft was flying over or near an emergency situation, rather than not wanting to be photographed.

 

[Lapeer20m]

Agreed - this case seems marginal if the reported information is correct. But I suspect that it was simply because the aircraft was flying over or near an emergency situation, rather than not wanting to be photographed.

But is there a law that prohibits flight in the area of an emergency? Especially once the emergency has ended?

Obviously interfering with an emergency is a big problem, but in general the faa does not restrict airspace simply because an emergency happened earlier and now they need to conduct an investigation.

News choppers fly over or near emergency situations all the time with gyro stabilized zoom cameras.

 

[gnirtS]

News choppers fly over or near emergency situations all the time with gyro stabilized zoom cameras.

Those have transponders and radios and are in direct 2 way contact and visible to ATC at all times so can be informed of incoming and conflicting traffic.

 

[deleted member 877]

Time we stood together against these sad tossers who can't use drones, and claim airspace that belongs to ... Us!

LOL, I can imagine the scenario - a sorry little band of misfits, many of them probably already known to law enforcement, gathering in Lafayette Square, getting ready to march on the White House to "claim" their airspace that will never belong to them.

But seriously, flying our drones is not and will never be a "right" - it's a privilege that the airspace regulators can take away from the recreational drone flying community in the blink of an eye.

And a really good way to help make that a reality is to keep banging on about all of the nasty regulations imposed on us by the big bad draconian government, and boasting (by posting on forums in the public domain) about our wonderfully illegal and irresponsible drone flying adventures.

 

[Mavic Mac]

The below info was cut, copied and pasted from THIS FAA web page. It appears to address the question at hand - if it was a legitimate arrest

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations
You are considered a recreational user if you fly your drone for fun. It is important to know when and where you can fly and how to register your drone.

New Changes to Recreational Drone Flying in the United States
There's a new law (PDF) that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes. Following these rules will keep you and your drone safe and will help keep the airspace available to everyone.

10. Never fly near emergencies such as any type of accident response, law enforcement activities, firefighting, or hurricane recovery efforts.

 

[Amarand]

On AirMap, someone's apparently keeping track of "First Responder" areas. Little red NOTAM-like circles around areas like this. I'm not sure if DJI Go's data service has access to the same data, but it would be nice if that were integrated. That way, if you try to fly your sUAS into one of those zones, it'll stop you.

Flying near (and this distance is fairly well established) an area like this is illegal. It impedes things like police helicopters, life flight, fire helicopters. Plus, you might be flying over people not a part of your operation, which is also illegal. Who wants to be in the way? I sure as heck don't.

The thing is, I'm sure this person wasn't just accidentally flying in the area, so if DJI Go were to say "hey, this area is off-limits for the next two hours for a First Responder Emergency," the person would have likely switched off GPS and flew anyway, just to get the video/shots.

AirMap Web App

app.airmap.io

These days, there's really no excuse, though.

 

[Amarand]

Looks as if Ohio is a hotbed for droning news lately, most of it negative....

Man arrested for flying drone over deadly Mansfield ATV crash

This went down about 65 miles from where I live.

Larry

Yeah, I mean, it's simple: first responders add a time-based (start/end) or open-ended (start) NOTAM-like No Fly Zone, and you just don't fly there. That keeps people from getting arrested.

I mentioned in my last post airmap.io has the "First Responder Emergency" red circles. It would be nice to know where that data is coming from, and if it's integrated into DJI Go's fly/no-fly map.

But you should be VLOS of your aircraft at all times, or have a spotter, so there's literally no excuse for flying near these areas. You should be able to see that there's an emergency, and fly away, or land. Press RTH. You're allowed to break rules in the case of an emergency (per FAA guidelines), but be prepared to document why you needed to break the rules. I think, with today's sUAV technology, it'd be easy to simply land the craft and use GPS to locate where the drone landed (you have a camera, face it down, so you're landing somewhere safe), and then talk to the first responders on-site. Tell them you were flying in the area, and when you saw the emergency, you landed for safety.

It sounds like this guy had one of those rebellious "I have a right to fly here!" moments, and, of course, that just won't fly. As a few other people have mentioned, it's simply against the law to fly near designated emergency areas.

 

[Amarand]

I don't get it. Everyone and their brother has a camera on their cellphone. Nothing wrong or immortal with photographing ANY public event, including crashes. We are shown corpses on the news regularly, so why does everyone become holier than thou, make up laws that don't exist and scream moral indignation, when the camera is a drone. In almost all countries, the airspace above an incident remains unchanged legally by the incident, and there is no right to privacy just because you're injured or dead, in public. Cellphone cameras have caused numerous courts to accept that the right to photograph people in public is obvious, as long as the images are not misused. So why are drone pilots regarded as sickos for exercising this right? Air ambulances are hardly ever used, and if they arrive, land! Crime scenes can be restricted to the public, but the photons bouncing off the objects are everyone who can capture them's domain. Time we stood together against these sad tossers who can't use drones, and claim airspace that belongs to ... Us!

This post/thread is absolutely not about photography or videography. Let's decouple that right now.

It's not that you don't have a right to photograph or record video of a public scene. Reporters on the ground do it all the time. Random bystanders do it all the time.

The problem here is 100% FAA regulations not allowing you to fly over or near a designated emergency area. Period.

If the police don't want the public or press photographing or recording video of the scene, they put down tape and keep people away. That's semi-common for dangerous or grizzly emergencies. No one wants to see that in the news.

But, again, this is 100% about flying, not about recording.

 

[rlphoto69]

Flying over the scene of emergency service workers and potentially interfering with possible incoming life Flight , yes he deserved punishment. We as the drone community need to stop doing things like this. When someone does, all of us get punished, by the FAA cracking down on the rules of all of us. Off the record, even if you’re not sure, then just don’t do it. It’s called common sense. I’ve been in class B airspace well above 400 AGL in a helicopter and saw a drone once that was only 100 ft from us and at the same altitude at 800 ft AGL. It was scary. ATC was unaware of it as well. As an Emergency Service Worker, the last thing you need added to an already stressful situation is for someone flying a drone around your scene and possibly causing another issue. On final approach to an accident scene, we are looking for vehicles, wires, trees, objects that may fly up from the rotor wash etc.... and unfortunately in today’s world, we also need to look out for drones now. I have drones and love flying mine everyday, but we all need to make good decisions. Most of us are very good of following the rules, but For the ones that aren’t making good decisions and get caught, I believe they should have some type of punishment and that should be made public and then maybe it will make some think twice. This is just an opinion and maybe a bit of a rant, but just wanted to post.

 

[Amarand]

Flying over the scene of emergency service workers and potentially interfering with possible incoming life Flight , yes he deserved punishment. We as the drone community need to stop doing things like this. When someone does, all of us get punished, by the FAA cracking down on the rules of all of us. Off the record, even if you’re not sure, then just don’t do it. It’s called common sense. I’ve been in class B airspace well above 400 AGL in a helicopter and saw a drone once that was only 100 ft from us and at the same altitude at 800 ft AGL. It was scary. ATC was unaware of it as well. As an Emergency Service Worker, the last thing you need added to an already stressful situation is for someone flying a drone around your scene and possibly causing another issue. On final approach to an accident scene, we are looking for vehicles, wires, trees, objects that may fly up from the rotor wash etc.... and unfortunately in today’s world, we also need to look out for drones now. I have drones and love flying mine everyday, but we all need to make good decisions. Most of us are very good of following the rules, but For the ones that aren’t making good decisions and get caught, I believe they should have some type of punishment and that should be made public and then maybe it will make some think twice. This is just an opinion and maybe a bit of a rant, but just wanted to post.

The thing that these inconsiderate jerks don't take even a second to think about is the potential loss of life.

If there's a delay in getting someone into an ambulance or a life flight helicopter, that person might die, or have a worse prognosis. Seconds count.

If the police are conducting a search pattern in the air, a criminal might get away.

Fire fighting planes are flying in straight lines, delivering needed anti-fire materials on the ground. They should not deviate from their flight plan (back and forth). Interference could cause a fire to not be completely put out.

But that's not even the worst part: as an sUAV you're unlawfully competing with MANNED aircraft in the area.

There are people in these helicopters and other aircraft. You should always, always, ALWAYS yield to manned aircraft. It's the law. Willfully adding yourself (an unmanned, unauthorized sAUV) into an already-cramped, tightly-packed first responder situation is not just against the law, but there's a chance you might kill someone.

That should give anyone pause.

 

[wsteele]

I'm glad that fellow forum members finally got these responses on the right theme. FAA promulgated "drone(UAV)" regulations expressly forbid flying recreational drones in the area of an emergency.

Citing your constitutional rights won't work as continued bad publicity could only result in the Congress outlawing recreational drone flying all together. Drones are not guns and they're not constitutionally protected.

I think that perhaps a bigger related problem is that according to FAA data that I've read, less than 50% of drones are FAA registered. That could mean that a majority of drone pilots have not even read the basic rules for drone operation like avoiding area of an emergency. This may also mean that less than 50% of drone owners will take the forthcoming FAA test that hopefully will be designed to educate drone pilots on safe and legal drone operations.

On the other hand, I will not be surprised if DJI, to protect their business, will implement a requirement to require the FAA registration be on file with DJI as part of the DJI's drone registration process in order to allow the drone to even take off.

Not saying I'm in favor of this; however, as post 21 states, we are our own worst enemies when it comes to common sense flying and the forum does not do enough to help self police. It would be interesting to know what percentage of forum members have their drones registered.

 

[Lapeer20m]

The below info was cut, copied and pasted from THIS FAA web page. It appears to address the question at hand - if it was a legitimate arrest

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations
You are considered a recreational user if you fly your drone for fun. It is important to know when and where you can fly and how to register your drone.

New Changes to Recreational Drone Flying in the United States
There's a new law (PDF) that describes how, when, and where you can fly drones for recreational purposes. Following these rules will keep you and your drone safe and will help keep the airspace available to everyone.

10. Never fly near emergencies such as any type of accident response, law enforcement activities, firefighting, or hurricane recovery efforts.

These are generally good suggestions to follow, but the law which was linked to above, does not appear to prohibit flight near an emergency, or near a scene where an emergency was earlier:

Here is the actual text of the law concerning hobby flights:

hobby flight rules.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

You should not fly near the scene of an emergency without permission, but doing so in a way that does not interfere with responders does not appear to be unlawful.

If someone can cite the federal law that prohibits this activity I would appreciate it.

It is inappropriate to arrest someone who isn’t suspected of breaking a law.

 

[MHeston]

What worries me about actions and stories like this is that it helps push the agenda for more and tighter regulations on sUA...and is that what we really want.

If I could, I'd have the perp arrested for obstructing my future rights and flights by making restrictive legislation easier to pass.

 

[irpnetgb]

FWIW I don't understand the arguments for this man.
If your loved ones where the ones in that accident and had died, how would you feel? Would it be okay for someone to film it and possibly publish it on social media?
If they were injured and required a medivac (air ambulance) would you be okay with him flying his drone and possibly delaying treatment to your loved ones?

He had no idea what the injuries sustained were, in which case he should NOT be flying his drone. Simple. I wouldn't, you wouldn't (most of you anyway!) and he shouldn't have. No excuses.

Our emergency services have a difficult enough job as it is, without inconsiderate people flying drones getting in their way at the site of an emergency.

My 2p worth!
Now thats off my chest - fly safe!!

 

[Amarand]

Citation:

FAA Targets UAS Violators for Enforcement

www.faa.gov

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_Order_2150.3B_Chg_13.pdf

I suspect a lot of this stuff is open to interpretation. But there are "First Responder" TFRs all over my AirData map here in Columbus, Ohio, showing where you SHOULD NOT fly. Me? I'm not going to fly in those RED CIRCLES, the same color as, say, Washington DC's security area which prohibits flight. They're not orange. They're not yellow. They show up as red.

Eventually, we're going to see DJI integrate this data, and you simply won't be able to fly.

 

[CenlaUAS]

Louisiana Law concerning situation like this.

Louisiana Laws - Louisiana State Legislature

www.legis.la.gov

 

[Scott99205]

I may be a little late to the game, but the FAA already prohibits flying in the area of an emergency or disaster, without anyone having to request special restrictions. JMHO...YMMV

 

[plangereis]

Even forgetting the moral part of it ( Mod Removed Langage)having a drone in the area can easily prevent things such as air ambulances, search and rescue, fire fighting or surveying etc from operating in the area and he has no idea if any air resources have been requested or not.
Throw the book at him.

I hate hearing when people use drones in even slightly inappropriate ways. It paints all drone users with a negative paintbrush. People need to consider any possible issues or dangers from flying a drone in an area. After watching morons do ridiculously illegal things with drones, and posting videos on You Tube, I shake my head in disbelief that people like this should be able to even own a drone. Drones are awesome, and I am just getting into them recently, but I have no patience with people that don't use common sense, and appear to do things out of self-centredness.