Need Color Grading Help

[Kjac]

So I have an M3P and switched to an M3C. Trying to use DLOG to improve my coloration of the videos, but they look terrible. I'm using the DJI LUTs in Premier Pro and they make them look worse. I even have two clips, one shot right after the other and they come out looking differently. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Are there better LUTs to use than the DJI LUTs? For my commercial shoots at this point I'm ready to go back to my M3P. Thanks

 

[SmilingOgre]

I see you aren't getting any answers. I apologize but I am no good at color grading in Premier Pro. I use Davinci Resolve and I can explain what needs to be done in general. Log footage is compressed in lumens (brightness) and (gama) color. This is not the same as file compression. In general, the black point needs to be brought down in brightness and the white point up. Contrast needs to be increased and saturation may need a bit of a boost as well. The other thing you could try would be to capture the video in either standard or HLG profile which will give you a more linear video right out of the box, so to speak. You will loose a little dynamic range but if the scene is not high in contrast it will look great.

 

[Kjac]

It's scary, but I actually understand that and it makes sense. I need to look at my process. I don't think I'm doing what you recommend but going straight to a LUTs and it's not working. Thank you. I think the light just went on!!!

 

[rjwmorrell]

I'm not overly experienced at colour grading, just using Lightroom for photos and Filmora's built in features for video, but I avoid LUTs like a plague. Preset anything I find doesn't give me what I want out of the image. I tweak and play with exposure and white/black first, then fine tune the colour, usually leaving the white balance as I shot it (I preset my WB) and only making minor adjustments to the vibrance and saturation. I like the results.

 

[Filmarik]

I'm not overly experienced at colour grading, just using Lightroom for photos and Filmora's built in features for video, but I avoid LUTs like a plague. Preset anything I find doesn't give me what I want out of the image. I tweak and play with exposure and white/black first, then fine tune the colour, usually leaving the white balance as I shot it (I preset my WB) and only making minor adjustments to the vibrance and saturation. I like the results.

I use DaVinci and applying the DJI LUT (not the saturated one) to Dlog footage from my M3 (not Pro) gives me pretty good result only requiring minor further tweaks if desired. So I am not sure why are you having issues. Maybe Premier applies the DJI LUT differently or your project color setting might incorrect?? Certainly worth investigating.

 

[Dave Maine]

If you use Resolve‘s color managed automatic feature, and a timeline defined by it you will get automatically a visual representation ready for additional grading. You set your delivery color space and gamma to whatever device you intend to display your final work on.

 

[JavaJack]

So I have an M3P and switched to an M3C. Trying to use DLOG to improve my coloration of the videos, but they look terrible. I'm using the DJI LUTs in Premier Pro and they make them look worse. I even have two clips, one shot right after the other and they come out looking differently. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Are there better LUTs to use than the DJI LUTs? For my commercial shoots at this point I'm ready to go back to my M3P. Thanks

Hi there, I’ll respond. Did you shoot Dlog in the first place. You can’t add a LUT to footage that was shot linear. The DJI LUTs are fine. If you want to upload a file I can take a look at it for you. I’d prefer camera original. I make my living as a DaVinci Resolve colorist and would take a look.

 

[BobaFut]

Can you post either footage or before/after screenshots to demonstrate what you're seeing? I find DJI's LUTs to be pretty good and almost universally usable, even if they aren't fully optimized for every clip. In other words, they almost always are "good enough" but rarely are they providing the best color grade possible for a given clip....which I think is what they are designed for. I can't think of an instance where they looked "terrible" for any clip.

 

[JavaJack]

Can you post either footage or before/after screenshots to demonstrate what you're seeing? I find DJI's LUTs to be pretty good and almost universally usable, even if they aren't fully optimized for every clip. In other words, they almost always are "good enough" but rarely are they providing the best color grade possible for a given clip....which I think is what they are designed for. I can't think of an instance where they looked "terrible" for any clip.

That’s true and just so people understand, these LUTs are technical LUTs and not creative LUTs. I know in my world as a colorist there is a lot of confusion with this. If you have shot Dlog then you are in a large color space and in log format. The image should look very washed out in log. The LUT then reverses this gamma curve so you have a linear image and converts the Dlog color space to Rec 709, which is where HD television stands. I have my own LUT for converting this footage for use in HDR, for instance.

 

[Bill Lorenz]

Hi, my two cents worth...
Try downloading Resolve. It´s free, and a truly professional program (as far as I can tell. I´m a professional photographer, but new to video). Resolve, and drone settings in general, have required a lot of effort on my part, but I don´t see a way around it. I´ve been shooting almost everything in D-log/H265 and my finding is that using the DJI LUT-in my case in a node- gets me surprisingly close to what I see as a good STARTING POINT. I´ve done many exposure tests and found that the more accurate the exposure (avoid clipping bright areas, avoid underexposing shadows - as always, set priorities), the better the result with the LUT. The clip will still need added contrast and brightness, depending on how close the initial exposure was to what you want. It is a TECHNICAL LUT, as JavaJack mentioned. BTW, I prefer the "normal" LUT to the Vivid.
Casey Faris` videos on DJI/Resolve colour grading are very good, and his node settings for the CST(Color Space Transformation) give results almost identical to the DJI LUT.
Having said that, I have to admit that getting clips to look as good as those shot in NORMAL mode has been almost impossible. I´m starting to think that maybe they needn´t look the same. Too unnatural?..Thoughts, anybody?
I also still have a number of questions, so far unanswered here, like why do D-log Quickshots result in clips that are not supposed to be possible (no D-log with QS), are clearly LOG as seen using VLC, but not readable by Resolve until converted by Handbrake/VLC?
And - why can´t the DJI TECHNICAL LUT (or any other) get the clip closer to what was seen, and would be produced in NORMAL mode, analogous to a lens profile in Lightroom?

 

[JavaJack]

Hi, my two cents worth...
Try downloading Resolve. It´s free, and a truly professional program (as far as I can tell. I´m a professional photographer, but new to video). Resolve, and drone settings in general, have required a lot of effort on my part, but I don´t see a way around it. I´ve been shooting almost everything in D-log/H265 and my finding is that using the DJI LUT-in my case in a node- gets me surprisingly close to what I see as a good STARTING POINT. I´ve done many exposure tests and found that the more accurate the exposure (avoid clipping bright areas, avoid underexposing shadows - as always, set priorities), the better the result with the LUT. The clip will still need added contrast and brightness, depending on how close the initial exposure was to what you want. It is a TECHNICAL LUT, as JavaJack mentioned. BTW, I prefer the "normal" LUT to the Vivid.
Casey Faris` videos on DJI/Resolve colour grading are very good, and his node settings for the CST(Color Space Transformation) give results almost identical to the DJI LUT.
Having said that, I have to admit that getting clips to look as good as those shot in NORMAL mode has been almost impossible. I´m starting to think that maybe they needn´t look the same. Too unnatural?..Thoughts, anybody?
I also still have a number of questions, so far unanswered here, like why do D-log Quickshots result in clips that are not supposed to be possible (no D-log with QS), are clearly LOG as seen using VLC, but not readable by Resolve until converted by Handbrake/VLC?
And - why can´t the DJI TECHNICAL LUT (or any other) get the clip closer to what was seen, and would be produced in NORMAL mode, analogous to a lens profile in Lightroom?

Good to read your comments. I agree with your comments and especially the ability to work with Davinci color space transforms as well as the DJI LUT. I left this out in my comments, only because, as a colorist, I can tend to over complicate things for people that just want to go out and fly, capture footage and make pretty images. The majority of the footage I shoot ends up in television commercials, feature films and as stock shots available for purchase, so the quality of color grading is very important to the clients. The advanced ability to using a color transform instead of the DJI LUT is that you can then transform your D-log footage into any color world you want in Davinci Resolve and not be stuck in Rec 709. See, here I go getting complicated, but let's say you want to do HDR on Youtube or Vimeo, you'll have to be working in Resolve in Rec 2020 to achieve. Here are the upload specs for Youtube, as an example: (If you're grading your video, grade in Rec. 2020 with PQ or HLG) So your footage must be converted to Rec 2020 or HLG to upload properly to YouTube, just as one example. I know this gets really complicated, but suffice to say, Davinci Resolve can solve all these scenarios if you know how to handle color transforms. Different platforms have different requirements. If you just want it to look nice on your television set or computer monitor, just leave Resolve in automatic color and you will get Rec 709 with 2.4 gamma. I apologize, but I don't. Color can get very complicated. In terms of your comments regarding not being able to achieve as good and image as shooting in normal mode, I disagree. I find the normal gives the Mavic a very over contrasted, crushed blacks look. It might look alright for some things, but to me and if I'm matching it to a high end Redcam V-Raptor, Sony Venice 2, I want the Mavic to be shooting in a log format where I can match the contrast range of a professional camera. If I do want to make the Mavic look like it's shot in normal mode, I can take it there, too, but that's not likely the case for the reasons I stated above.

 

[SmilingOgre]

Hi, my two cents worth...
Try downloading Resolve. It´s free, and a truly professional program (as far as I can tell. I´m a professional photographer, but new to video). Resolve, and drone settings in general, have required a lot of effort on my part, but I don´t see a way around it. I´ve been shooting almost everything in D-log/H265 and my finding is that using the DJI LUT-in my case in a node- gets me surprisingly close to what I see as a good STARTING POINT. I´ve done many exposure tests and found that the more accurate the exposure (avoid clipping bright areas, avoid underexposing shadows - as always, set priorities), the better the result with the LUT. The clip will still need added contrast and brightness, depending on how close the initial exposure was to what you want. It is a TECHNICAL LUT, as JavaJack mentioned. BTW, I prefer the "normal" LUT to the Vivid.
Casey Faris` videos on DJI/Resolve colour grading are very good, and his node settings for the CST(Color Space Transformation) give results almost identical to the DJI LUT.
Having said that, I have to admit that getting clips to look as good as those shot in NORMAL mode has been almost impossible. I´m starting to think that maybe they needn´t look the same. Too unnatural?..Thoughts, anybody?
I also still have a number of questions, so far unanswered here, like why do D-log Quickshots result in clips that are not supposed to be possible (no D-log with QS), are clearly LOG as seen using VLC, but not readable by Resolve until converted by Handbrake/VLC?
And - why can´t the DJI TECHNICAL LUT (or any other) get the clip closer to what was seen, and would be produced in NORMAL mode, analogous to a lens profile in Lightroom?

Wow, a lot of questions for sure.

Perception is everything. If "normal" is your gold standard then I suggest you use it. Stepping into log or even more so raw, you are entering a realm of artistry whereby you determine the look you want, realistic or no. I believe most images are not realistic. They are manipulated for screen, mood, impact, sensation. I have done realistic but it requires me to be looking at the live scene while I am "developing" the image. I can do this in my back yard. Every color science has it's limitations and if perfection exists it's within the realm of imperfection. A muse for another thread. I agree fully, the better the capture the better the final result if its an image or sound. The only thing that can be done in post is to distort the original image, hopefully in a pleasing manner. Technical luts do act upon the encoding algorithm but they do not return the image to that captured by the sensor. Here we have two sets of logarithmic formulas, one attempting to change the linear output of the sensor to how the eye perceives changes in light. That logarithmic function is subjective and not universal. Therein all luts have a degree of subjectivity. Of course, what was captured by the sensor may not be reality either dependent upon camera usage. You can see where I'm going with this. If and if and if and if and if and so on. So many variables. No true controls on those variables. Lut or no lut, the image needs to be developed into something desirable.

 

[Duncan McCall]

I'm not overly experienced at colour grading, just using Lightroom for photos and Filmora's built in features for video, but I avoid LUTs like a plague. Preset anything I find doesn't give me what I want out of the image. I tweak and play with exposure and white/black first, then fine tune the colour, usually leaving the white balance as I shot it (I preset my WB) and only making minor adjustments to the vibrance and saturation. I like the results.

This has been my experience as well. I can't find a LUT that just brings the scene back to normal. It only takes a few seconds to increase vibrance & saturation and slide the shadows and highlights around to get it right. But if someone finds the perfect LUT for M3P D-LogM let me know…I'm always open.