Yay or nay? mavic in Vietnam

[Aekero]

Greetings fellow mavic pilots, it's coming down to decision time and I'm hoping for the opinions of my fellow mavic pilots.

I'm scheduled to fly from Singapore to Hanoi, and after that I have a few domestic flights within Vietnam. Do you think I'll be alright bringing my mavic? I know Vietnam advises drone pilots to get a permit, the problem is absolutely noone responds. I've emailed and called the ministry of defense, aviation authority, Vietnam consulate in US, US consulate in Vietnam as well as a couple other places, and have gotten absolutely bupkis in the way of a response/support. I read this thread below and it seems like international flights into Danang are the only ones that are a problem, domestic into Danang is alright and international into any other city *seems* ok.

Opinions? Anyone else that's flown into Vietnam recently? Appreciate any votes regardless of opinion.


Bringing a drone to vietnam - Vietnam Forum - TripAdvisor

 

[pixl]

It's illegal without a permit, period.

But in practice, I know many that do use theirs, just stay away from places of scrutiny. Overflying major cities is a way to have problems for sure. This is pretty much the way it is throughout SE Asia -- officially they're illegal, but there are few instances of any enforcement. I hadn't heard of any issues at Da Nang, but it could happen anywhere. I've never had my bags searched coming into Vietnam, and from what the locals tell me being searched is rare and just bad luck.

Generally the travel protocol is to put the bare Mavic in your checked baggage (yes, this necessitates that you check a bag, but you'll find that it's compulsory flying domestically in Vietnam anyways), and all of your batteries and controller in your carry-on.

I'll be flying into Hanoi in a couple weeks, so I'm hoping it'll be fine. Also will be flying domestically as well as flights to 5 other countries in SE Asia. I've heard it's always a concern, but so far nobody has had a problem, including a friend that runs a drone school in Cambodia.

Good luck to both of us!

 

[Aekero]

thanks for the response pixl, it's so frustrating to hear it's illegal without a permit, makes me paranoid. if they're going to say that, you'd think they'd have some sort of way to actually obtain said permit

 

[collins]

thanks for the response pixl, it's so frustrating to hear it's illegal without a permit, makes me paranoid. if they're going to say that, you'd think they'd have some sort of way to actually obtain said permit

Honestly I live in Asia and you asking the wrong questions. If it was possible to 'obtain a permit' it is most likely that permit would be limited to those who are 'local', th0se who are not 'local' but have a 'work permit', those who are 'permanent residents' etc... Seriously what is the point of issuing a 'permit' if the permit is available to 'any tourist who enters the country and applies for one'. You really have to start from the optimistic opinion that laws are not in place for the criminally insane.

So of course you can obtain a permit to operate in any given country all you need to provide is '1. you are a resident of that country 2. you can show (presumably via a test) that you fully understand all the laws governing the use of drones in the country and 3. that you have the knowledge and expertise to operate a drone in that country and given that you have all the knowledge and expertise to operate the drone and that you are a resident that you also have 5. a work permit for the country (simply on the basis that if you have that if you have knowledge and expertise that is defined by law as 'work' whether or not it is remunerative,)

I mean let us assume that a country - Rwanda - for example has a rule that states you can only use a drone if you have a permit. Why exactly (if say you are a tourist from Belgium) why would they give you a permit? Can you claim you know all the Rwanda flying code? Where to shoot? where not to shoot? Can you claim that you are an expert in flying drones so you wont be of any harm to anyone else or thing? And if you can claim all this knowledge and expertise, will you also claim that the only reason you are flying your drone is for fun and recreation and not for work and therefore claim you dont need a work permit. Of course you can claim all these things but just think about it - if they were to believe all these claims, there wouldnt be any point in a permit in the first place.

I know exactly what you want. To pay US$10 for a drone permit to say you can do whatever you want when you want. But then we simply circle round to the assumption that people are not, in general, criminally insane....

BTW I was in Danang, vietnam for 2 days in mid July and this was my video....

.

 

[Aekero]

When you first arrive at a country, you're given a form by customs asking any number of questions. Can you lie? Sure! I imagine lying and getting caught for it is probably worse than actual truthful disclosure. You can claim anything you want anywhere, I suppose at some point you may be held accountable though.

My point being, at what point is it believable that what I say is true? I could show my drone license, videos of me flying, my report cards, my boy scout medals, whatever, but if I don't know what's expected it's hard to fulfill any sort of requirement. You're basically saying (it seems) that flying drones anywhere should be illegal yes? It's not as though even in my home country they have much evidence of my abilities/intentions whenever I fly there as well do they? Maybe you're right, but is that your overall point?

If I'm asking the wrong questions, please let me know what the right ones are, that's part of the reason why I'm here.

 

[pixl]

When you first arrive at a country, you're given a form by customs asking any number of questions. Can you lie? Sure! I imagine lying and getting caught for it is probably worse than actual truthful disclosure. You can claim anything you want anywhere, I suppose at some point you may be held accountable though.

My point being, at what point is it believable that what I say is true? I could show my drone license, videos of me flying, my report cards, my boy scout medals, whatever, but if I don't know what's expected it's hard to fulfill any sort of requirement. You're basically saying (it seems) that flying drones anywhere should be illegal yes? It's not as though even in my home country they have much evidence of my abilities/intentions whenever I fly there as well do they? Maybe you're right, but is that your overall point?

If I'm asking the wrong questions, please let me know what the right ones are, that's part of the reason why I'm here.

Drones have become very difficult to use in many (some might even say most) places. It's not surprising when you see irresponsible use that there is a move to outlaw them. Where I live, there are few places that are outside of airport buffer zones (9km from an airfield). New regulations have come in requiring insurance policies even for enthusiast use. Basically, if you want to fly legally, it will really cost you. Similarly, it is practically illegal to fly as an enthusiast in the USA now, though many many still do and suffer no repercussions. They get away with it because they ruffle no feathers -- which basically means stay away from other people.

I think it's unreasonable to expect that we should be allowed to fly anywhere we go. I assume it's illegal, but there are laws I will break if there are slim chances of getting any hassle for it . But I do my best to draw no attention to what I'm doing.

Vietnam is officially worried about drones. They are a dictatorship with a very small military, sleeping next to the giant that is China. So of course they want nothing in the air that they aren't controlling, but they also have few resources to control drones except at the point of entry. Once in Vietnam, I suspect you will see nobody asking you about what you are doing as long as you are discreet. If you've ever spent time exploring rural Vietnam by motorcycle -- which is what I have mostly done -- you'll quickly see that almost no laws apply, and you'll only meet kind, friendly people.

I suspect that making a huge effort to apply for a permit will just draw attention to you. Though the petty bureaucracy may not be able to move swiftly to do anything about it. But also, another word of caution, the Vietnam visa application now asks for your Facebook page. If you have anything drone-related there, I'd remove it.

 

[pixl]

Honestly I live in Asia and you asking the wrong questions. If it was possible to 'obtain a permit' it is most likely that permit would be limited to those who are 'local', th0se who are not 'local' but have a 'work permit', those who are 'permanent residents' etc... Seriously what is the point of issuing a 'permit' if the permit is available to 'any tourist who enters the country and applies for one'. You really have to start from the optimistic opinion that laws are not in place for the criminally insane.

So of course you can obtain a permit to operate in any given country all you need to provide is '1. you are a resident of that country 2. you can show (presumably via a test) that you fully understand all the laws governing the use of drones in the country and 3. that you have the knowledge and expertise to operate a drone in that country and given that you have all the knowledge and expertise to operate the drone and that you are a resident that you also have 5. a work permit for the country (simply on the basis that if you have that if you have knowledge and expertise that is defined by law as 'work' whether or not it is remunerative,)

I mean let us assume that a country - Rwanda - for example has a rule that states you can only use a drone if you have a permit. Why exactly (if say you are a tourist from Belgium) why would they give you a permit? Can you claim you know all the Rwanda flying code? Where to shoot? where not to shoot? Can you claim that you are an expert in flying drones so you wont be of any harm to anyone else or thing? And if you can claim all this knowledge and expertise, will you also claim that the only reason you are flying your drone is for fun and recreation and not for work and therefore claim you dont need a work permit. Of course you can claim all these things but just think about it - if they were to believe all these claims, there wouldnt be any point in a permit in the first place.

I know exactly what you want. To pay US$10 for a drone permit to say you can do whatever you want when you want. But then we simply circle round to the assumption that people are not, in general, criminally insane....

BTW I was in Danang, vietnam for 2 days in mid July and this was my video....

.

Nice vid. Is that the Four Seasons? Too rich for me..first time there I stayed in the Hotel Victoria which is quite nice, and comparatively a bargain. Since then I've found friendlier secluded digs in HoiAn that are a huge bargain, and came with an introduction to the expat community

 

[Aekero]

Drones have become very difficult to use in many (some might even say most) places. It's not surprising when you see irresponsible use that there is a move to outlaw them. Where I live, there are few places that are outside of airport buffer zones (9km from an airfield). New regulations have come in requiring insurance policies even for enthusiast use. Basically, if you want to fly legally, it will really cost you. Similarly, it is practically illegal to fly as an enthusiast in the USA now, though many many still do and suffer no repercussions. They get away with it because they ruffle no feathers -- which basically means stay away from other people.

I think it's unreasonable to expect that we should be allowed to fly anywhere we go. I assume it's illegal, but there are laws I will break if there are slim chances of getting any hassle for it . But I do my best to draw no attention to what I'm doing.

Vietnam is officially worried about drones. They are a dictatorship with a very small military, sleeping next to the giant that is China. So of course they want nothing in the air that they aren't controlling, but they also have few resources to control drones except at the point of entry. Once in Vietnam, I suspect you will see nobody asking you about what you are doing as long as you are discreet. If you've ever spent time exploring rural Vietnam by motorcycle -- which is what I have mostly done -- you'll quickly see that almost no laws apply, and you'll only meet kind, friendly people.

I suspect that making a huge effort to apply for a permit will just draw attention to you. Though the petty bureaucracy may not be able to move swiftly to do anything about it. But also, another word of caution, the Vietnam visa application now asks for your Facebook page. If you have anything drone-related there, I'd remove it.

Absolutely true, I don't expect to fly it everywhere, I consider myself a responsible operator. I don't fly near cities, over people, or even near people in nature because it's not my intention to disturb other people's enjoyment of the outdoors.

I'd rather a concrete ban over what I've encountered with Vietnam though, I'm leaning (heavily) towards just not bringing it at this point. Not sure I need a $750 lesson in luck for the sake of some vacation footage.

 

[pixl]

Absolutely true, I don't expect to fly it everywhere, I consider myself a responsible operator. I don't fly near cities, over people, or even near people in nature because it's not my intention to disturb other people's enjoyment of the outdoors.

I'd rather a concrete ban over what I've encountered with Vietnam though, I'm leaning (heavily) towards just not bringing it at this point. Not sure I need a $750 lesson in luck for the sake of some vacation footage.

Yup. Basically you have to be willing to risk losing it. I will be traveling through at least four countries over the course of three months, and I've already come to terms with the idea that it will be confiscated at some point. I just hope I get some memorable footage before that happens.

 

[VortexSpin]

Greetings fellow mavic pilots, it's coming down to decision time and I'm hoping for the opinions of my fellow mavic pilots.

I'm scheduled to fly from Singapore to Hanoi, and after that I have a few domestic flights within Vietnam. Do you think I'll be alright bringing my mavic? I know Vietnam advises drone pilots to get a permit, the problem is absolutely noone responds. I've emailed and called the ministry of defense, aviation authority, Vietnam consulate in US, US consulate in Vietnam as well as a couple other places, and have gotten absolutely bupkis in the way of a response/support. I read this thread below and it seems like international flights into Danang are the only ones that are a problem, domestic into Danang is alright and international into any other city *seems* ok.

Opinions? Anyone else that's flown into Vietnam recently? Appreciate any votes regardless of opinion.


Bringing a drone to vietnam - Vietnam Forum - TripAdvisor

Pasadena OP. Based on past experiences flying a rotary wing [emoji576]in the 'Nam does not IMHO bode well. Not good. Just sayin'
But on the other hand the beauty there is surreal.[emoji576] Happy landings.

 

[collins]

When you first arrive at a country, you're given a form by customs asking any number of questions. Can you lie? Sure! I imagine lying and getting caught for it is probably worse than actual truthful disclosure. You can claim anything you want anywhere, I suppose at some point you may be held accountable though.

My point being, at what point is it believable that what I say is true? I could show my drone license, videos of me flying, my report cards, my boy scout medals, whatever, but if I don't know what's expected it's hard to fulfill any sort of requirement. You're basically saying (it seems) that flying drones anywhere should be illegal yes? It's not as though even in my home country they have much evidence of my abilities/intentions whenever I fly there as well do they? Maybe you're right, but is that your overall point?

If I'm asking the wrong questions, please let me know what the right ones are, that's part of the reason why I'm here.

Let me just give you the Thailand example
1) You are supposed to have a permit to fly a Mavic in Thailand. (The main purpose of the permit is so that pilots who operate drones commercially are properly licensed.)
2) I doubt if you apply for a permit you will get one but if you do get one and then you fly your Mavic - then you will definitely be breaking the Law. Because 'having a license' and 'using it' is a 'specific legal definition of work' and it is illegal for you to work in Thailand without a 'work permit'.

There are many reasons for rules and laws. And often these Laws are deliberately vague so that there is flexibility on how they are implemented. The requirement for a permit in Thailand achieves 2 things - one it means that people 'can' stop you flying your drone where they dont 'want' you flying your drone. And secondly it stops you coming to Thailand and flying your drone commercially (unless you are properly licensed and have a work permit.)

So now you know the 'law' in Thailand you will see the right question is 'not' 'how do I go about getting a drone permit'

Really it comes down to 2 choices
1) Either you decide not to bring your drone. If you do not bring your drone you can 100% certain, that it wont be confiscated by the police or customs, that it will not be stolen and you will not break any laws related to drone flying.
2) If you bring your drone to Thailand and you fly responsibly, sensibly and courteously (by which I mean if someone tells you to stop flying somewhere you stop flying there) then you are 95%+ going to be absolutely fine. But there is always a risk that you will come across a policeman or customs offcial who doesnt like the look of your face or the way you act towards him and that you get your Mavic confiscated or you get 'fined' for one reason or another etc....

But to some extent that is usually the case wherever you live (but people are generally more risk averse abroad). I tend to take my drone with me (unless I know that using it could get me in 'serious' trouble - like when I went to the Indian/Pakistan border). As I see it, pretty much the worse that can happen is that my drone gets confiscated and I dont get it back. In that case I lose my drone - it doesnt seem much of a risk to me though - afterall every single time I fly my drone I risk losing it!! I fully understand those people who choose not to take a drone simply because they wish to avoid any hassle in a foreign country.

 

[collins]

Nice vid. Is that the Four Seasons? Too rich for me..first time there I stayed in the Hotel Victoria which is quite nice, and comparatively a bargain. Since then I've found friendlier secluded digs in HoiAn that are a huge bargain, and came with an introduction to the expat community

It is actually Naman Resort but parts of it do look like the Four Seasons - which is too rich for me too!!

I suspect that making a huge effort to apply for a permit will just draw attention to you. Though the petty bureaucracy may not be able to move swiftly to do anything about it. But also, another word of caution, the Vietnam visa application now asks for your Facebook page. If you have anything drone-related there, I'd remove it

Didnt know that. I am a Brit and we are allowed into the country for up to 15 days without a visa

 

[pixl]

It is actually Naman Resort but parts of it do look like the Four Seasons - which is too rich for me too!!

I suspect that making a huge effort to apply for a permit will just draw attention to you. Though the petty bureaucracy may not be able to move swiftly to do anything about it. But also, another word of caution, the Vietnam visa application now asks for your Facebook page. If you have anything drone-related there, I'd remove it

Didnt know that. I am a Brit and we are allowed into the country for up to 15 days without a visa

Naman is still too rich for me! After a week in the Victoria @$180/night, I found a place I liked much more for $35/night...but I'm trying to be a traveller more than a tourist -- trying to integrate a little into the culture. Places like the Victoria are great as a private-ish resort and are designed to keep some separation. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not why I'm there. I do occasionally splurge when I just need to escape -- ie the Intercontinental Westlake in Hanoi, and may do something similar in Phu Quoc in a couple months.

 

[collins]

Naman is still too rich for me! After a week in the Victoria @$180/night, I found a place I liked much more for $35/night...but I'm trying to be a traveller more than a tourist -- trying to integrate a little into the culture. Places like the Victoria are great as a private-ish resort and are designed to keep some separation. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not why I'm there. I do occasionally splurge when I just need to escape -- ie the Intercontinental Westlake in Hanoi, and may do something similar in Phu Quoc in a couple months.

To be honest, tourist destinations like Danang and Hoi Ang are not really my thing. I go there because they are close by and are convenient for my GF and 3 year old kid.

In a week I am off to Sitthwe, MraukU, Muangdaw and Ching state for 6 weeks. You couldnt pay US$100/night in any of those places even if you tried at the best places in town, Staying at nice places isnt a big thing to me - although I do appreciate hot water and electricity which will not always be available on my next trip. If it was available, i would definitely pay for it.

Look if you happen to feel like a traveller in 'Hoi An' go for it (especially if you can find a table between some tourists somewhere). But there really is a world outside tourist destinations

BTW my post sounds a bit snarky... it wasnt meant to be ....it is literally just rather quaint when you claim to stay in 'Hoi An' which is absolutely nothing but a tourist destination with its 'tourist market', tourist travel agents' 'tourist art galleries' and 'tourist restaurants' and also claim to be a 'traveller' which sort of 'hints' that you like to experience places that are not complete overrun by tourists.

 

[FlyGuy8675309]

Similarly, it is practically illegal to fly as an enthusiast in the USA now, though many many still do and suffer no repercussions.

Not sure where you're getting your information from, but this is simply not accurate. In fact, a hobbyist remote-pilot in the US has more freedom than commercial remote-pilot, including police agencies. Heck, we're even exempt from noise ordinances.

 

[pixl]

To be honest, tourist destinations like Danang and Hoi Ang are not really my thing. I go there because they are close by and are convenient for my GF and 3 year old kid.

In a week I am off to Sitthwe, MraukU, Muangdaw and Ching state for 6 weeks. You couldnt pay US$100/night in any of those places even if you tried at the best places in town, Staying at nice places isnt a big thing to me - although I do appreciate hot water and electricity which will not always be available on my next trip. If it was available, i would definitely pay for it.

Look if you happen to feel like a traveller in 'Hoi An' go for it (especially if you can find a table between some tourists somewhere). But there really is a world outside tourist destinations

BTW my post sounds a bit snarky... it wasnt meant to be ....it is literally just rather quaint when you claim to stay in 'Hoi An' which is absolutely nothing but a tourist destination with its 'tourist market', tourist travel agents' 'tourist art galleries' and 'tourist restaurants' and also claim to be a 'traveller' which sort of 'hints' that you like to experience places that are not complete overrun by tourists.

All true about HoiAn, but as I said before, I spend most of my time away from those places even when I'm staying at a hotel near Hoi An. I was there in the spring and it served as a great base of operations for motorcycle day trips 200 km south and north and west to the Laos border. I try to stay away from the tourist spots -- Hoi An is often insufferable, especially now that there is a cruise ship port in Da Nang disgourging tourists by the thousands all at once.

In two weeks I will be in Mu Cang Chai area. I was in Sa Pa last year, a mistake I won't repeat. Absolutely horrendous what a shitshow it is there. Late October will be in Northern Thailand - perhaps Chiang Rai - so far undecided (probably some time in Chiang Mai too, work related). Myanmar is a maybe; if I do it'll likely be Yangon.

 

[collins]

I was in Sa Pa last year, a mistake I won't repeat. Absolutely horrendous what a shitshow it is there.

Yep... Made the same mistake myself!!

 

[H_copter]

It's illegal without a permit, period.

But in practice, I know many that do use theirs, just stay away from places of scrutiny. Overflying major cities is a way to have problems for sure. This is pretty much the way it is throughout SE Asia -- officially they're illegal, but there are few instances of any enforcement. I hadn't heard of any issues at Da Nang, but it could happen anywhere. I've never had my bags searched coming into Vietnam, and from what the locals tell me being searched is rare and just bad luck.

Generally the travel protocol is to put the bare Mavic in your checked baggage (yes, this necessitates that you check a bag, but you'll find that it's compulsory flying domestically in Vietnam anyways), and all of your batteries and controller in your carry-on.

I'll be flying into Hanoi in a couple weeks, so I'm hoping it'll be fine. Also will be flying domestically as well as flights to 5 other countries in SE Asia. I've heard it's always a concern, but so far nobody has had a problem, including a friend that runs a drone school in Cambodia.

Good luck to both of us!

you sound correct! I am living in Viet Nam and I know it is not easy to get permission to fly here. Just stay away from public areas.

 

[collins]

I hadn't heard of any issues at Da Nang, but it could happen anywhere.

Just to say. I have heard of specific problems flying into Danang...

They are listed here and are sort of along the lines of 'dont bring a drone in Danang...'

Bringing a drone to vietnam - Vietnam Forum - TripAdvisor

I took one anyways and had no problems (I also separated my drone (packed) from batteries (carry on)) and customs were only interested in my 'carry on' so it didnt phase them.

As I think you pointed out elsewhere, if you wish to travel in South East Asia, you will probably be fine but you will always 'risk' the fact that someone might confiscate it. But losing your drone is a risk you take every time you fly it.

In all likelihood the biggest risk you can take is telling a local you are entitled to fly your drone wherever you want - that is incredibly stupid because he will be perfectly prepared to show you that, that is not the case......

 

[pixl]

Yeah, and the other thing (as an ex-pat friend with a retail business in Hoi An tells me), there are "spies" everywhere -- government officials in plain clothes monitoring activities. He was threatened with arrest when they found out his girlfriend was living with him. Apparently that is not allowed -- at least not with a foreigner and a local. Probably not an issue in more remote places.