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Litchi vs Dronelink... getting started- my impressions

Hey guys, Jim here (the guy that wrote the whole thing). We are aware that many hobbyist users (and even some professionals) would prefer to not be bothered with the extraordinary number of details that are required to program drones. Having said that, the target audience for Dronelink from the start has been Dronelink SDK customers (enterprises with software development teams). We made the same tooling available to hobbyists in the meantime for the people that don't mind learning new things, or who already have technical backgrounds. We do have plans to create an entirely different mission planner for casual users (which would look more similar to 99% of other waypoint mission planning apps out there), but it would still have a "show details" option to dive into the current "advanced mode" mission planner. Until then, if you are just looking for basic waypoint missions, you should definitely consider Litchi, Maven, etc.
I guess I'll have to ask for a refund then Jim. I had requested it about a month ago but your people came back in an email response basically telling me to wait till it was out of beta to use it. Not wanting to refund me.
 
I guess I'll have to ask for a refund then Jim.
No problem, just send an email to [email protected].

I just recognize hubris when I see it.
Sorry you feel that way. The reality is I am just a normal guy trying to create something that people will find useful. I realize not everyone will, and that is okay. FWIW, I am trying to make most of Dronelink open-source (including the current Mission Planner), so others can extend it when I don't have the time or resources.
 
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I've gone through the DL tutorials and the author actually gloats over the fact that DL was written with all of the flexibility and complexity that a top tier programming language would provide. In my opinion it's a mistaken adoption ... kind of an in-your-face statement like "here's how we do it in my world", complete with non-intuitive terms. I agree that DL is powerful and the reusable modularity of various elements may appeal to some users, but overall I think it's an app created by a misguided techie who insists that you think like he does .... and I say that as a degreed engineer who has embraced computer programming for almost 50 years. I just recognize hubris when I see it.
I was being a little less blunt but can't fault what you're saying ...
 
Hey guys, Jim here (the guy that wrote the whole thing). We are aware that many hobbyist users (and even some professionals) would prefer to not be bothered with the extraordinary number of details that are required to program drones. Having said that, the target audience for Dronelink from the start has been Dronelink SDK customers (enterprises with software development teams). We made the same tooling available to hobbyists in the meantime for the people that don't mind learning new things, or who already have technical backgrounds. We do have plans to create an entirely different mission planner for casual users (which would look more similar to 99% of other waypoint mission planning apps out there), but it would still have a "show details" option to dive into the current "advanced mode" mission planner. Until then, if you are just looking for basic waypoint missions, you should definitely consider Litchi, Maven, etc.
Hi Jim,
I'm just being observational here and maybe siting on the fence a bit too but I do see both sides. You have a massive potential customer base that want the ultimate mission tool but also want an easy way in. Most new users will give a piece of software a very small amount of time to decide whether they like it or not. They need to see that they can simply set some waypoints at different altitudes along a path and see that the drone will follow it. Nothing more as step one. Then they will have the confidence to move on to more advanced stuff. The first hurdle they hit is that they can neither set nor see altitudes along a path and don't get the destination/path differences. I sure didn't at first.
Then there are many 101 tutorials, and very good at that, but no index and when you know you've seen how to do something but then want to find it again it's near impossible to find it. Frustration mounts...
The product is great but IMHO the way it is presented to a new user is off putting and losing your potential customers to the likes of Litchi.
What I think Dronelink is crying out for is:
  1. A beginner/Intermediate/Advanced user guide ( Get em hooked/give em more/wow em with the ultimate)
  2. Different altitudes along a path with the altitude for each waypoint displayed ( why can't you do this? I know many have asked for it)
  3. A set of tutorial videos written by technical trainers/authors, you technical guys are too close to it
Take it r leave it, just some observations from an old guy who's been there.
 
Hey guys, Jim here (the guy that wrote the whole thing). We are aware that many hobbyist users (and even some professionals) would prefer to not be bothered with the extraordinary number of details that are required to program drones. Having said that, the target audience for Dronelink from the start has been Dronelink SDK customers (enterprises with software development teams). We made the same tooling available to hobbyists in the meantime for the people that don't mind learning new things, or who already have technical backgrounds. We do have plans to create an entirely different mission planner for casual users (which would look more similar to 99% of other waypoint mission planning apps out there), but it would still have a "show details" option to dive into the current "advanced mode" mission planner. Until then, if you are just looking for basic waypoint missions, you should definitely consider Litchi, Maven, etc.
I appreciate your response Jim. It seems that the consensus is the ability to understand the process of your tutorials. Part of the issue is, as others have stated, the terminology. It didn't, and still doesn't have to be so technical. Also, the tutorials need to be more direct, and perhaps with recaps enumerating the steps and sequences involved. As known, if you do one step out of sequence it can booger up the entire mission planning. And while the preview can identify errors, getting errors fixed isn't so easy.

I do hope that your upcoming addition with a simplified interface is successful, but I also hope that you would grant free access for those of us who paid for Dronelink and find it unuseable. I really wanted it to work for me and see the potential. I'm guess I'm just not smart enough.

Edit: See Tolly's remarks above.
 
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Take it r leave it, just some observations from an old guy who's been there.
Totally get it. We will eventually get around to making the experience better for casual users over time, it's just a matter of priority and hours in the day to work on it. Thanks for believing in us!

you would grant free access for those of us who paid for Dronelink and find it unuseable.
We have a proven track record of adding features at no additional cost to existing users, and we have a very lenient refund policy.

I'm guess I'm just not smart enough.
I doubt that, you just weren't the target audience.
 
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Hey guys, Jim here (the guy that wrote the whole thing). We are aware that many hobbyist users (and even some professionals) would prefer to not be bothered with the extraordinary number of details that are required to program drones. Having said that, the target audience for Dronelink from the start has been Dronelink SDK customers (enterprises with software development teams). We made the same tooling available to hobbyists in the meantime for the people that don't mind learning new things, or who already have technical backgrounds. We do have plans to create an entirely different mission planner for casual users (which would look more similar to 99% of other waypoint mission planning apps out there), but it would still have a "show details" option to dive into the current "advanced mode" mission planner. Until then, if you are just looking for basic waypoint missions, you should definitely consider Litchi, Maven, etc.

As someone who has been critical of Dronelink for various reasons, I think your response was remarkably straightforward, rational, and provided great clarity. Well done.
 
Nailed it!!

Raising my hand here. I took a mission from Litchi Hub and brought it into DL but I'm too scared to fly it (if you saw it you would realize why).

Touting over 40 years of IT experience really doesn't convince me. I've been an IT for over 26 and I know a lot of the people on the forum with the same opinion on DL have a boat load of experience also.
Another Dronelink team member here:

Curious on the thoughts you all have on this Quick Start Series, it is a work in progress and we are adding more, but should be a better starting point:

 
Another Dronelink team member here:

Curious on the thoughts you all have on this Quick Start Series, it is a work in progress and we are adding more, but should be a better starting point:

That looks better. That gets more into detail and explains a little better. Explaining the why and how is key when trying to teach someone.
 
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'Inheritance' is a very powerful feature in Dronelink. I suggest from the outset, if there is anything one would wish to use repeatedly (camera settings, RTH altitude/geofence etc.), save it as a 'component list'. If you create a camera settings preset as a component list which you use in many missions and later decide to change something in that component list preset, any mission that contains the list will offer you an update dialogue for any changed component it finds in the mission. I struggled to fully understand the mission structure until I discovered the, <> components list. I find this is where most of the sequential items are best dealt with using stacked reusable lists of commands placed between paths and destinations. Also, it appears confusing at first that these components leave a marker on the map, but it doesn't matter.
 
'Inheritance' is a very powerful feature in Dronelink. I suggest from the outset, if there is anything one would wish to use repeatedly (camera settings, RTH altitude/geofence etc.), save it as a 'component list'. If you create a camera settings preset as a component list which you use in many missions and later decide to change something in that component list preset, any mission that contains the list will offer you an update dialogue for any changed component it finds in the mission. I struggled to fully understand the mission structure until I discovered the, <> components list. I find this is where most of the sequential items are best dealt with using stacked reusable lists of commands placed between paths and destinations. Also, it appears confusing at first that these components leave a marker on the map, but it doesn't matter.

I agree. In the past I've been critical of the complexity of Dronelink and the cryptic terminology used by the author, but there's no question that the program is very powerful. Much of the complexity comes, I believe, from the author's decision to make the user interface adhere to the same principles and practices used in software design and coding. Inheritance seems akin to reuse of a subroutine.
 
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We do have plans to create an entirely different mission planner for casual users (which would look more similar to 99% of other waypoint mission planning apps out there), but it would still have a "show details" option to dive into the current "advanced mode" mission planner.

Ah, the best of both worlds! Count me in although I don't really have a problem with the current interface.

Brings me back to the old word processing days where WordPerfect was dominant with its "reveal codes" option. An option which I kept activated always. Then MS Word took over the market and users just had to accept how things worked behind the scenes.

I'm more or less forced to use MSWord given that's what clients are locked in to, but given the chance, I'd switch back to WP.
 
Has litchi or Dronelink improved since since the videos in the post we shared? Any of the missions I watch for both drone link and litchi seem very choppy. Nothing compares to my old phantom 3 standard and the waypoints that were include. I could set up the angle, altitude and camera for waypoints and then run them together. While I had to fly to each point and record the waypoints the system then gave me a flight path and video where the drone automatically adjusted along the route so it was at the target postion when it got to the next waypoint. It was so smooth.
 
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