Mavic 3 - M3Cine vs EVO2 6K - better?

[Dougcjohn]

The M3 / M3Cine is receiving mixed reviews and comments... It has it's strong strengths and questionable features. Firmware will address some, others not.
I have a Mavic3 FlyMore sitting in the house, unopened... I'm reconsidering keeping or M3Cine or EVO2 6K.

The M3 definitely is a smooth & stable craft; flight behavior hasn’t been the bulk of negative concerns & observations. To my reading the majority of concerns other than the lack of enhanced flight features (pending FW updates)… the bulk has been associated with cinematography: video & photos.

On the Mavic forum it’s been compared to the M2 & A2S… and mildly to the I2. On other areas… Youtubes, other sites it’s gotten a lot of comparison with the EVO2 6K.

From what I’ve read or watched on YouTube, even the dedicated “DJI leaning Reviewers“ have stated the EVO2 6K creates better output: Dynamic Range, sharpness, etc.

This I’ve this found surprising when comparing the M3's MFT sensor to a 1" sensor. I haven’t been a EVO2 supporter, but recently I’ve been comparing the M3, M3Cine, and EVO2 Enterprise 6K. I’m not a Autel mole… I own many DJI from M600Pro to Mini2. I do own a EVO1, never used.

Interestingly… My searches on Internet; Every comparison between the M3 & EVO2 6K that I’ve found have indicated the EVO2 6K is a better option. That's a bit odd when you consider the market density for DJI to Autel...it's not like the Autel crowd has a larger presence to Internet / YouTube. Plus, just recently heard the new smaller craft: Lite+ has the same EVO2 6K payload in a M2AS sized package… with adjustable aperture. A small craft with adjustable aperture 1" sensor sounds like a great package too.

Without the typical off-track “attack the messenger“ losing the point of “Thread Question”. Has anyone… Anyone, come across a comparison with the EVO2 6K that indicated the M3 was the better option? Any examples, any strengths clearly in the M3 court? If ya have… please share! I've found many DJI Supportive Reviewers indicating the EVO2 6K produces better results. The M3 Cine provides ProRes, although many seem not to be intending use the ProRes due to embedded SSD or processes involved in processing ProRes.

If not, then for the investment… EVO2 kits provide more in kit… larger Smart Controller Screen, GPC case, etc… the EVO2 6K is a better buy and produces better product.

Granted, they both have issues; the EVO2 has it’s… but video it appears better. Something to consider beyound “Brand Loyalty“ for a product a bit disappointing to expectations. There are comments of the EVO2's Flight behavior... that's noted, and to my understanding that's improved with FW too.
The question is video/photo comparison: Dynamic Range, Color, Sharpness, Lens quality, processor, etc.

 

[Saladshooter]

The EVO 2 PRO 6K is a good aircraft and I have many hours on it. VS my Air 2S I prefer the Air 2S for a list of reasons:

1. The EVO 2 has cruder controls than the Air 2S and takes more subtlety to fly.... any bad movement on the sticks shows up in the filming.

2. Its not really 6K, it has the same resolution as the Air 2S, 5.4K so they are selling a lie.

3. I prefer the color science of the Air 2S. DJI oversaturates greens which can be easily fixed in post. The EVO 2 puts out too much magenta so shadows look off. I can minimize it in post but too much adjustment just throws the rest of the scene out of whack. Look at the shadow in the example I post below. After you see it there..... you will see it in almost every example of daytime EVO 2 video you can find on the internet.

4. The Panorama modes are useless and dangerous. If you take a Pano, the EVO 2 turns off your camera view and sits in air for up to four minutes while processing your photo. So you drain your battery while sitting in the air, unable to see or do anything until it is done. And the final result is a photo with misaligned stitches.

5. The range and transmission quality lags quite a bit behind the Air 2S's Ocusync

I really want to like Autel as an alternative to DJI and they have a whole new fleet of drones and a new control App coming that I hope will fix their problems. I do believe the optics on the EVO 2 Pro are better than the Mavic 3 and the Air 2s but there are too many issues remaining to be fixed.

 

[wco81]

Thanks for the comparison.

Sounds like the EVOs may be underpowered processing-wise.

Do they have a Log format for video? Do they put out LUTs?

 

[Dougcjohn]

The EVO 2 PRO 6K is a good aircraft and I have many hours on it. VS my Air 2S I prefer the Air 2S for a list of reasons:

1. The EVO 2 has cruder controls than the Air 2S and takes more subtlety to fly.... any bad movement on the sticks shows up in the filming.

2. Its not really 6K, it has the same resolution as the Air 2S, 5.4K so they are selling a lie.

3. I prefer the color science of the Air 2S. DJI oversaturates greens which can be easily fixed in post. The EVO 2 puts out too much magenta so shadows look off. I can minimize it in post but too much adjustment just throws the rest of the scene out of whack. Look at the shadow in the example I post below. After you see it there..... you will see it in almost every example of daytime EVO 2 video you can find on the internet.

4. The Panorama modes are useless and dangerous. If you take a Pano, the EVO 2 turns off your camera view and sits in air for up to four minutes while processing your photo. So you drain your battery while sitting in the air, unable to see or do anything until it is done. And the final result is a photo with misaligned stitches.

5. The range and transmission quality lags quite a bit behind the Air 2S's Ocusync

I really want to like Autel as an alternative to DJI and they have a whole new fleet of drones and a new control App coming that I hope will fix their problems. I do believe the optics on the EVO 2 Pro are better than the Mavic 3 and the Air 2s but there are too many issues remaining to be fixed.

Good Points.... what version of EVO 2 are you using... Ver1 or Ver2?
I've read a few variations of similar expressions on the flight controls being different... more jerky, quick, etc. I've also read a few indicating 1) DJI flyers are used to DJI behavior (little Ford vs Chevy: different brakes & steering feeling), 2) little time & adjustments can improve the controls. I do know when I got my EVO1 and played with it, I didn't care for the controls at first... got them to an workable place then basically shelved it.

Your magenta comments I've read too... and viewed a few YouTubes of compressed videos I felt were overall a bit washed & leaned in shadows a bit magenta. I don't know if it's new FW or EVO2 ver2... but the recent examples, have been better DR in shadows, more realistic colors and a large noticeable difference in sharpness. Examples by "DroneXFactor" was pretty good on sharpness... trees, buildings, and signage examples. Also provided some color examples. Others by "OriginaldoBO" and a few others... granted none are professional cinematographers in film making although the examples were helpful.

The EVO RC vs Ocusync... I'd agree I don't think much will beat DJI's Ocusync, but the new EVO 2 v2 SmartController / RC appears to have improved.

I'm a bit where you are it sounds like... I'd like to see Autel... Lite+ and EVO2 be strong performers. I carry a little hesitance. I'm about to the stage of simply purchasing a EVO2 Enterprise 6K to try it out.

 

[Saladshooter]

Do they have a Log format for video? Do they put out LUTs?

Yes they have LOG which I use for everything possible.... the photo above was lifted from a video in LOG format. There are LUTs available from Autel and a few individuals but I prefer to correct the white balance and add some saturation to the footage instead of a LUT.... it usually looks better in the end.

what version of EVO 2 are you using... Ver1 or Ver2?

I am using a V1 but there really is no difference in the EVO 2 V2, the V2 controller or the control App other than the chips that deliver the transmission signal. The camera and software are the same. I feel the dynamic range is great especially shooting in LOG, pictures are sharp, actually too sharp and the video looks great most of the time but I am very sensitive to colors being out of whack and the purple shadows get me every time.....

 

[Dougcjohn]

Yes they have LOG which I use for everything possible.... the photo above was lifted from a video in LOG format. There are LUTs available from Autel and a few individuals but I prefer to correct the white balance and add some saturation to the footage instead of a LUT.... it usually looks better in the end.


I am using a V1 but there really is no difference in the EVO 2 V2, the V2 controller or the control App other than the chips that deliver the transmission signal. The camera and software are the same. I feel the dynamic range is great especially shooting in LOG, pictures are sharp, actually too sharp and the video looks great most of the time but I am very sensitive to colors being out of whack and the purple shadows get me every time.....

True and understood the V2 doesn't change camera. I was thinking more on the RC range and signal stability that I thought they improves in V2. Was it the v2 that added dual vs single in RC Transmission? I've seen sales mention single vs dual RC. Wasn't the Enterprise version improved in RC, stability and a few other areas with larger motors, slower prop speed and larger arms & props?

Great info... thanks! You're kinda reinforce the quality of the EVO2 6K camera. Can the purple cast be dialed out in post work satisfactorily? Has the purple cast been addressed in updated FW?

In your opinion from using an EVO2 (noticed you had it listed too), would you be considering more a M3 or EVO 2... bang for buck and photo/video?

 

[Saladshooter]

True and understood the V2 doesn't change camera. I was thinking more on the RC range and signal stability that I thought they improves in V2. Was it the v2 that added dual vs single in RC Transmission? I've seen sales mention single vs dual RC. Wasn't the Enterprise version improved in RC, stability and a few other areas with larger motors, slower prop speed and larger arms & props?

Great info... thanks! You're kinda reinforce the quality of the EVO2 6K camera. Can the purple cast be dialed out in post work satisfactorily? Has the purple cast been addressed in updated FW?

In your opinion from using an EVO2 (noticed you had it listed too), would you be considering more a M3 or EVO 2... bang for buck and photo/video?

I think the Air 2S is the best value in drones at the moment and competes well with the Mavic 2 Pro and the Evo 2 Pro and even in most situations the Mavic 3.

Given only the choice between the Mavic 3 or the Evo 2 Pro, I would purchase the Mavic 3 as I feel DJI will sort out the early issues and give us the best product once the software is refined.

The V2 has dual channel capability but has not improved the reliability of the signal. The EVO 2 Enterprise V2 has larger motors and carbon fiber arms. Props are a newer design but the same on the Enterprise as the EVOI 2 Pro V2.

Updates have not corrected the magenta cast and its not easy to fix in post because it affects more than one primary color when adjusted and throws other parts of the image out of whack.

I am hoping the EVO Lite+ corrects the problems with the EVO 2 Pro as it has the same size camera sensor (1") and a new control App.

 

[Dougcjohn]

I think the Air 2S is the best value in drones at the moment and competes well with the Mavic 2 Pro and the Evo 2 Pro and even in most situations the Mavic 3.

Given only the choice between the Mavic 3 or the Evo 2 Pro, I would purchase the Mavic 3 as I feel DJI will sort out the early issues and give us the best product once the software is refined.

The V2 has dual channel capability but has not improved the reliability of the signal. The EVO 2 Enterprise V2 has larger motors and carbon fiber arms. Props are a newer design but the same on the Enterprise as the EVOI 2 Pro V2.

Updates have not corrected the magenta cast and its not easy to fix in post because it affects more than one primary color when adjusted and throws other parts of the image out of whack.

I am hoping the EVO Lite+ corrects the problems with the EVO 2 Pro as it has the same size camera sensor (1") and a new control App.

Interesting choice for A2S… I own M2P/Z, A2 & A2S. Still little partial to the M2P... like the adjustable aperture for photos & videos. The lack of adjustable aperture has been a question to me on the Air 2 series. The A2S does receive a lot of praise, produces excellent results and at a nice price point.

EVO2 Pro vs EVO2 Ent... I may have poor info; Per Autel video & visual when held side by side the Enterprise props are longer, as with Ent Arms are longer… as you site with nice looking slender carbon arms. They even caution not to use the longer redesigned Enterprise props on EVO2 Pro.

Still leaning a bit toward EVO2 Ent… agree DJI will clearly sort the M3 issues out, which is what maintains interest in M3, although I‘m reading more true pros aren’t moving toward the Cine version as much as expected.

Color cast can be a challenge, I’m certainly no expert. Don’t they tend to go more magenta, purple when Temp is little cold? I’ve found magenta or purple on black can be worked with color wheels to obtain black & whites and/or color separation and desaturate the shadows.

Oddly, I’ve been playing with LumaFusion on an iPad Pro 12.9 (A12X & M1) after hearing & watching so many impressed with it & the horsepower… I moved from FCP on MBP waiting on new M1Max. The smoothness, speed and GPU is unbelievable when considering the device... it’s power compared to a pretty hefty GPU & built PC is impressive.

Within LumaFusion, it’s pretty quick to separate & isolate color, change color tone & saturation… bringing Blacks back or changing several different colors or hues much faster than FCP or Davinci and with multiple tracks / layers without bogging down. Changing a maroon car to green or a blue sweater to red… all the variations in shadows & highlights and so quick & fluid on an iPad… very cool. Granted, it doesn’t have everything like Full Featured FCP but has the majority commonly utilized.

I’ve been amazed what can be separated / channeled in video, I knew how to work with still photo & colors. The video media I didn’t realize had so much similar potential.

 

[Saladshooter]

Per Autel video & visual when held side by side the Enterprise props are longer, as with Ent Arms are longer… as you site with nice looking slender carbon arms. They even caution not to use the longer redesigned Enterprise props on EVO2 Pro.

I stand corrected on the Enterprise props.... they are indeed different.

Within LumaFusion, it’s pretty quick to separate & isolate color, change color tone & saturation… bringing Blacks back or changing several different colors or hues much faster than FCP or Davinci and with multiple tracks / layers without bogging down.

I use Davinci Resolve which has lots of control over color but it can be daunting at times because there are so many different ways to dial your video in. I normally keep my editing as simple as possible and the results are excellent without extensive work on either EVO 2 or DJI footage. I wouldn't mind checking out LumaFusion but I am much better at editing using my M1 MacBook than my iPad.

I recommend spending as much time as you can reading over at the AutelPilots board if you intend on buying the EVO 2 Enterprise. I think its a terrific drone with some limitations. The Mavic 3 has some catching up to do.

Right now I am looking at the XDynamics Evolve 2. Its still too buggy to buy but I am watching carefully to see if the company can pull everything together. It sports a real Micro 4/3 camera with interchangeable lenses, a very nice controller/ground station with a 1000 nit screen, and no geofencing.

 

[Dougcjohn]

I stand corrected on the Enterprise props.... they are indeed different.


I use Davinci Resolve which has lots of control over color but it can be daunting at times because there are so many different ways to dial your video in. I normally keep my editing as simple as possible and the results are excellent without extensive work on either EVO 2 or DJI footage. I wouldn't mind checking out LumaFusion but I am much better at editing using my M1 MacBook than my iPad.

I recommend spending as much time as you can reading over at the AutelPilots board if you intend on buying the EVO 2 Enterprise. I think its a terrific drone with some limitations. The Mavic 3 has some catching up to do.

Right now I am looking at the XDynamics Evolve 2. Its still too buggy to buy but I am watching carefully to see if the company can pull everything together. It sports a real Micro 4/3 camera with interchangeable lenses, a very nice controller/ground station with a 1000 nit screen, and no geofencing.

Oh I would agree... the Evolve 2 looks like a very promising platform. If DJI fails to replace the Inspire 2... that will probably be it's modern replacement. Really like the RC... nicely thought out. Their gimbal balancing technique sounds interesting... appears it'll balance various MFT lenses easier than the X5S.

I'll highly suggest looking at LumaFusion and the various add-on/plug ins... It's speed and power will amaze ya.

This site has a great class set, add-ins and some for Davinci too.
I used his add in tools to quickly work colors in LumaFusion.

LumaFusion Tutorial - Mobile Video Editing [November 2023]

This LumaFusion tutorial is for beginners, intermediate and advanced users. With real-time instructor access. The fastest way to master LumaFusion.

www.vloggingsecrets.com

 

[Dougcjohn]

For a self gift... I have a EVO2 Enterprise 6K due to arrive Dec 23... and I have a Mavic 3 Flymore Kit still sitting unopened. Both have liberal no-restock return polices... M3 from BestBuy, EVO2 Ent from B&H Photo.

Other than ordering, not much way for my locality to visually examine and experiment with new product. Both may stay, one, or both returned.

 

[alex_markov]

If You have both - do experiment for Yourself
I had EVO 2 Pro 6K and now I have M3 - and I can tell You my personal opinion - M3 is by far better for filming!
My EVO had many problems some SW and some by design - like prop shadows visible in the picture - flickering - terrible flares... constant loosing of focus absolutely unpredictable, terrible VBR compression ruining clouds... so I sold my EVO
M3 has his own problems and is half-backed but I hope they'll fix it and even now it's a lot better camerwyse!

 

[ianwood]

Mavic 3 Cine: micro 4/3, 3,772Mbps, ProRes 422HQ.
Evo 2 6K: 1", 120Mbps, H.264.

It's not even close.

 

[Dougcjohn]

Mavic 3 Cine: micro 4/3, 3,772Mbps, ProRes 422HQ.
Evo 2 6K: 1", 120Mbps, H.264.

It's not even close.

Agree on specs, M3 and MFT sensor better on paper. Although image quality was my point.
I’ve seen several showing the dynamic range & sharpness better from EVO2 over M3. Since then, I’ve found a few other M3 YouTubes discussing the sharpness being soft.

 

[ianwood]

Agree on specs, M3 and MFT sensor better on paper. Although image quality was my point.
I’ve seen several showing the dynamic range & sharpness better from EVO2 over M3. Since then, I’ve found a few other M3 YouTubes discussing the sharpness being soft.

I've never touched the EVO in any form nor seen footage from it but the people I know who know cameras have little interest in it. As for the specs on paper, the difference in sensor size is much smaller than that of bitrate and codec. 120Mbps is barely adequate for 4K let alone 6K. There's just not enough information there to properly color grade.

As for softness, many people who first used ProRes on the Inspire 2 said similar. That is because it isn't sharpened in camera like H.264 is. Reason for the difference is that no one bothering to use ProRes wants their footage pre-sharpened. That would be a disaster. I haven't put the M3 up to a resolution chart yet, but I see no inherent softness beyond what you would expect from a permanent compact lens.

 

[Dougcjohn]

I've never touched the EVO in any form nor seen footage from it but the people I know who know cameras have little interest in it. As for the specs on paper, the difference in sensor size is much smaller than that of bitrate and codec. 120Mbps is barely adequate for 4K let alone 6K. There's just not enough information there to properly color grade.

As for softness, many people who first used ProRes on the Inspire 2 said similar. That is because it isn't sharpened in camera like H.264 is. Reason for the difference is that no one bothering to use ProRes wants their footage pre-sharpened. That would be a disaster. I haven't put the M3 up to a resolution chart yet, but I see no inherent softness beyond what you would expect from a permanent compact lens.

That’s interesting, I haven’t read or seen a disinterest in the optics. I’ve read more where Owners enjoy the optics of the EVO2 but have issues with other aspects of the Autel platform: the horizon or megenta cast. But all good info!

I do recall the Inspire2 soft discussion… wasn’t on the Inspire 2 itself, it was regarding the X7. The X5S was considered sharp and the X7 was indicated as soft focus. I never saw that… the X5S produce much better video than the M2P, and the X7 is same or better. Both produced outstanding color, dynamic range and sharpness. I still use my I2’s with X5S over my M2P for Construction video progress loops due to quality.
That I2 sharpness discussion went on to state the X7 was physically softer in design and that wasn’t accurate… your use of 1 Codec over the other may make more sense. I personally don‘t experience the X7 producing a soft focus.

Just a quick grab… this example by DroneXFactor is a non-professional experiment, more of a normal comparison… but it does show the color & sharpness comparison.

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As expected, I am beginning to see more positive for the Mavic 3… especially after the FW upgrade.
That leads to the next discussion, the Standard vs Cine. One YouTube I thought really touched on it nicely and most useful was Billy Kyle‘s YouTube and specifically the 2nd Video Post Comment by “WingFromHeaven87”… his detailed explanation on ProRes vs H264/5 was very good… pretty much showed no strong reason for Cine ProRes in the M3, the gains weren’t realized.

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[Dougcjohn]

If You have both - do experiment for Yourself
I had EVO 2 Pro 6K and now I have M3 - and I can tell You my personal opinion - M3 is by far better for filming!
My EVO had many problems some SW and some by design - like prop shadows visible in the picture - flickering - terrible flares... constant loosing of focus absolutely unpredictable, terrible VBR compression ruining clouds... so I sold my EVO
M3 has his own problems and is half-backed but I hope they'll fix it and even now it's a lot better camerwyse!

I do plan to examine both… my preference has always been with DJI but I’ve had a strong interest in EVO 2, specifically the newer EVO2 Enterprise. One main reason I have an interest in the EVO2 are the payloads, the ability to add a Flir 640 thermal with a RGB with aperture has interest too.

There may be an alternative reason to self justify the EVO 2 for the Thermal… as more detail is found it’s looking more Mavic 3 for best video, so I may just have to justify the EVO2 as a Thermal payload.

 

[ianwood]

That’s interesting, I haven’t read or seen a disinterest in the optics. I’ve read more where Owners enjoy the optics of the EVO2 but have issues with other aspects of the Autel platform: the horizon or megenta cast. But all good info!

I do recall the Inspire2 soft discussion… wasn’t on the Inspire 2 itself, it was regarding the X7. The X5S was considered sharp and the X7 was indicated as soft focus. I never saw that… the X5S produce much better video than the M2P, and the X7 is same or better. Both produced outstanding color, dynamic range and sharpness. I still use my I2’s with X5S over my M2P for Construction video progress loops due to quality.
That I2 sharpness discussion went on to state the X7 was physically softer in design and that wasn’t accurate… your use of 1 Codec over the other may make more sense. I personally don‘t experience the X7 producing a soft focus.

Just a quick grab… this example by DroneXFactor is a non-professional experiment, more of a normal comparison… but it does show the color & sharpness comparison.

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As expected, I am beginning to see more positive for the Mavic 3… especially after the FW upgrade.
That leads to the next discussion, the Standard vs Cine. One YouTube I thought really touched on it nicely and most useful was Billy Kyle‘s YouTube and specifically the 2nd Video Post Comment by “WingFromHeaven87”… his detailed explanation on ProRes vs H264/5 was very good… pretty much showed no strong reason for Cine ProRes in the M3, the gains weren’t realized.

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First video, he's using auto settings which could be doing anything. Ideally, never use auto anything. He should also be looking in the corners for loss of detail and softness, etc. as that is where it is most noticeable. Lastly, when the sharpening is already added, it can be confused for detail if you don't use a resolution chart.

Second video, it's good to hear the H.265 holds up against banding but the real difference will be in the shadow detail and the highlight detail once you start pushing the image around. Best seen on the scopes. The difference might not be night and day for many people but I can see it.

P.S. Here's a good vid comparing X7 lens quality with X5S.

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[Dougcjohn]

First video, he's using auto settings which could be doing anything. Ideally, never use auto anything. He should also be looking in the corners for loss of detail and softness, etc. as that is where it is most noticeable. Lastly, when the sharpening is already added, it can be confused for detail if you don't use a resolution chart.

Second video, it's good to hear the H.265 holds up against banding but the real difference will be in the shadow detail and the highlight detail once you start pushing the image around. Best seen on the scopes. The difference might not be night and day for many people but I can see it.

P.S. Here's a good vid comparing X7 lens quality with X5S.

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Again great points, and yes he stated full auto. Actually for many, that is how many shot so in a comparative manor, not a technical... was a pretty good comparison. Although I do agree with your comments & observations.

Regarding ProRes vs H.265 / 264... on the M3 it's minimal and undetectable by most asks the question if the extra price is justified. Although, unlike the Inspire2... you can't activate later with license key so it's an up ft cost & decision.

The YellowHouse videos are great, I've seen that one previously but enjoyed again. I personally don't use the DJI lens... I use the M.zuiko series: 12, 25 & 45. Tried the 7.5 manual and too fussy. Favorite is the 12mm. I have the X7 4 pak lens set... absolutely beautiful carbon appearance and glass quality.... plus the Laowa 9mm f2.8 manual. The manual on the X7 is much better than manual on X5S.

DJI produced some good product info on the Inspire 2 hardware.
This page is very informative on the X5S... still very impressive camera.

Zenmuse X5S - DJI

The DJI Zenmuse X5S is a professional gimbal camera designed for the Inspire 2. Using CineCore 2.0, the Zenmuse X5S records video at a maximum resolution of 5.2K 30 fps in CinemaDNG 12-bit, 5.2K 30 fps in Apple ProRes, and 4K 30 fps in Apple ProRes.

www.dji.com

Same for the X7 and DL lenses... only disappointing part is they didn't produce additional lenses or 3rd party didn't join in with additional lenses beyond the 9mm manual.

Zenmuse X7 - DJI

The DJI Zenmuse X7 is a compact Super 35 camera with an integrated gimbal made for high-end filmmaking, delivering stunning resolution and image quality. Its compatibility with the Inspire 2 offers unprecedented levels of professional aerial cinematography and photography.

www.dji.com

 

[Flying Buffalo]

I had a demo of the. Autel 640T yesterday .... their smart controller is nice ..but I noticed it was a big shaky in the wind ..and we were only at 50-60 ft...and one thing I didn't like is the Bunny hops its takes on landing ... you have to keep the throttle down ...it lands ..hops ....keeping the throttle down ...lands, hops and it takes 3-4 cycle to turn of the props ....