MOA’s

[AMann]

(In US) Has anyone tried flying near or even inside an MOA? If so, what type of warnings did your remote control give you? I checked B4UFly and didn’t see any issues flying in a location well outside of a Marine Base, but unbeknownst to me, I was just outside the edge of their MOA and the remote control warned me about being in a regulated area as I was getting ready to take off, so I shut down and then later at home had a chance to look at the location on a Sectional and discovered it was on the outside edge of a MOA. I realize I should have had a sectional to look at too in the field and have ordered a printed one for my area also instead of relying on trying to get the online version in case I cant download it again in the field.

 

[Glhs958]

From what I understand is if the moa is encompassed in red be aware that their could be military flight ops which include high maneuverable jets you would need to be very cautious about. you can call the flight service # 1-800-wxbrief to see if their are any operations going on when you want to fly. if its a moa encompassed in blue that is restricted airspace and would need authorization to fly.

 

[kadras]

I've been involved with large UAS (see avatar) in an MOA, but not a sUAS.

In the margin of the sectional the MOAs are listed along with their normal hours of operations, controlling and contact agencies. You can download directly from the FAA georeferenced charts (sectional, TAC, etc.) in PDF or tiff format. Keep copies on your devices. VFR Raster Charts

 

[AMann]

From what I understand is if the moa is encompassed in red be aware that their could be military flight ops which include high maneuverable jets you would need to be very cautious about. you can call the flight service # 1-800-wxbrief to see if their are any operations going on when you want to fly. if its a moa encompassed in blue that is restricted airspace and would need authorization to fly.

I've been in a full size plane in an MOA, but not an sUAS.

In the margin of the sectional the MOAs are listed along with their normal hours of operations, controlling and contact agencies. You can download directly from the FAA georeferenced charts (sectional, TAC, etc.) in PDF or tiff format. Keep copies on your devices. VFR Raster Charts

Thanks! I was on BLM land between the red outlined MOA and a Wilderness area boundary and was clear of both of those, but didnt realize how close to the MOA’s red boundary I was. I usually check this online searchable sectional at VFRMAP - Digital Aeronautical Charts
but couldnt get it over internet in the field, so mistakenly went by my wilderness BLM map and what I saw with B4UFly earlier when I could get it. I just ordered a paper sectional to keep in my truck when out exploring, and will download the digital version on my iPad so I can always check those in the future as well. Even though we have lots of public lands to fly in out here in California, we also have a lot of MOA’s and other places to look out for as well.

Another question- does the remote typically give that type of warning when one is within a mile or less of a MOA boundary? I am sure I was outside of it.

Thanks again!

 

[Glhs958]

I do not recall any moa warnings last summer when at our cabin which is in the middle of a moa. but I have not been to our cabin since last summer so I do not know if the new geo zones in go 4 would give a warning or not.

 

[AMann]

I do not recall any moa warnings last summer when at our cabin which is in the middle of a moa. but I have not been to our cabin since last summer so I do not know if the new geo zones in go 4 would give a warning or not.

It appears rhat they do- it gave me an option to acknowledge my responsibility and start the flight, but we opted to move on to a different location. I will be more inclined to go by what the sectionals show now that I am flying near areas like MOA’s where there may be low level active training flights!

 

[Glhs958]

I will be more inclined to go by what the sectionals show now that I am flying near areas like MOA’s where there may be low level active training flights!

Yes, at our cabin we have A-10's doing bombing and gunning runs on our cabin and dog fight almost weekly. It is a sight to see when you can make eye contact with the pilot as they darn near take the tree tops off.

 

[kadras]

All the MOAs have a floor AGL, so you could legally fly under some MOAs. I'm sure the app considers them reaching the ground. Looking at the sectional you linked to, some of the MOAs even have civilian airports within them. Over in the Tehachapi Pass area, which is some pretty complicated airspace, the floors of the MOAs are noted right on the sectional in addition to the margins. Flying under an active MOA would be interesting.

 

[AMann]

You are right- some state “MOA excludes airspace at and below 1500’ AGL”. The one I was near, Bristol MOA, NE of Twentynine Palms Ca, does not list such a notation or a reference to a NOTAM. Should I assume ground level on up for these, or is 1500’ AGL the rule of thumb for them as well, as with some MTR’s?

Nice Avatar, by the way! Would love to see one flying sometime.

 

[kadras]

You are right- some state “MOA excludes airspace at and below 1500’ AGL”. The one I was near, Bristol MOA, NE of Twentynine Palms Ca, does not list such a notation or a reference to a NOTAM. Should I assume ground level on up for these, or is 1500’ AGL the rule of thumb for them as well, as with some MTR’s?

Nice Avatar, by the way! Would love to see one flying sometime.

The statement about excluding airspace is for clarity in busy/congested areas, without having to look at the margin for the floor altitude, and applies to that specific MOA. The current Los Angeles and Phoenix sectionals, in the margin, show Bristol MOA has a floor of 5,000 ft AGL, and is operational M-F 0700-1500. That's a busy area for military training and there are several low level MTRs inside and outside the MOA.

A Google search found a brochure for civilian pilots from the Marines detailing the flight hazards in the area. I also came across a NOTAM from 2017 which lowered the floor of the Bristol MOA and created several temporary MOAs around it for a large scale exercise. I would definitely check NOTAMs before flying in that area.

 

[AMann]

The statement about excluding airspace is for clarity in busy/congested areas, without having to look at the margin for the floor altitude, and applies to that specific MOA. The current Los Angeles and Phoenix sectionals, in the margin, show Bristol MOA has a floor of 5,000 ft AGL, and is operational M-F 0700-1500. That's a busy area for military training and there are several low level MTRs inside and outside the MOA.

A Google search found a brochure for civilian pilots from the Marines detailing the flight hazards in the area. I also came across a NOTAM from 2017 which lowered the floor of the Bristol MOA and created several temporary MOAs around it for a large scale exercise. I would definitely check NOTAMs before flying in that area.

I can’t for the life of me understand why sport fliers can go out there willy nilly, not understanding anything about this. Im studying for the 107 and it just opened my eyes to the world of sectionals and just how much I have been wrongly assuming that just checking B4UFly was suitable for flying clearances.

Thanks for your help- I am getting proper sectionals delivered by the next time I fly., and will always check the NOTAMS as well.

 

[SoCalDude]

I am getting proper sectionals delivered by the next time I fly.

Just use www.skyvector.com

 

[AMann]

Just use www.skyvector.com

That’s an awesome website, thanks! Still trying to figure out MOA’s on it though... and not as easy to use as paper while remote camping, but I like it, and it will be useful for pre-trip planning!

 

[dawgpilot]

All the MOAs have a floor AGL, so you could legally fly under some MOAs. I'm sure the app considers them reaching the ground. Looking at the sectional you linked to, some of the MOAs even have civilian airports within them. Over in the Tehachapi Pass area, which is some pretty complicated airspace, the floors of the MOAs are noted right on the sectional in addition to the margins. Flying under an active MOA would be interesting.

MOAs by themselves are not restricted airspace, so there is no legal requirement to fly under their floor. Unless there is an actual published TFR there, you are free to fly. You are just warned that there is a higher chance of military training flights there and you need to see and avoid them.

 

[AMann]

MOAs by themselves are not restricted airspace, so there is no legal requirement to fly under their floor. Unless there is an actual published TFR there, you are free to fly. You are just warned that there is a higher chance of military training flights there and you need to see and avoid them.

ATC will reroute planes through MOA’s, even if they are not active. You are right though, there are some we can fly in even when the levels are from the surface up. As an old school person, I went ahead and purchased the current sectionals I need for my desert trips as we are often out of cellular data range when we go remote camping, and often its nomadic in that we don’t have a plan or place ahead of time - we just throw it in the air and let the dust settle it!