Has anybody had any issues flying over or near National Trust Properties?
Flying drones at our places
Flying drones at our places
National Trust Properties
- Thread starter majaribio
- Start date
Depends who's about and how long your up for. The mavic is so quiet I doubt anyone would ever know.
Mad_Angler1
Well-Known Member
What this comes down to is where you take off from and what kind of property it is.
For instance you can not take off from any National Trust land, so you could take off from an adjacent piece of land privately owned with permission or public.
Next is if you do this and your flying over anything but open land, so houses or locations of interests this will likely be classed as congested area and is against CAA rules and illegal.
Basically unless you flying over open land that's not an area of interests it's a complete no.
National Trust land is all pretty much places where people congregate so it's always going to be congested basically.
For instance you can not take off from any National Trust land, so you could take off from an adjacent piece of land privately owned with permission or public.
Next is if you do this and your flying over anything but open land, so houses or locations of interests this will likely be classed as congested area and is against CAA rules and illegal.
Basically unless you flying over open land that's not an area of interests it's a complete no.
National Trust land is all pretty much places where people congregate so it's always going to be congested basically.
So I take off from a public location at say 6am in the morning. I fly around the 'house' at 150m and land back 15 mins later at the take off location. Is this a big no no?
Subject to government consultation. I take this to mean if too many people with drones become a nuisance the consultation will come up with the evidence they need to draw up harsher laws. If we behave as a collective and are seen to be responsible we may well have better negotiations moving forward.
I've been in touch with a lighthouse who are in a similar "this is new to us" territory and they've come up with a £150 fee to anyone wishing to fly over their land. I disagree with this huge fee but do believe at the moment we are to some degree self governed on the whole regards to our conduct. I hope in future we will have to freedom we do now but I honestly can't see it. The more people take risks and chances over private land the more restricted the air will become.
I've been in touch with a lighthouse who are in a similar "this is new to us" territory and they've come up with a £150 fee to anyone wishing to fly over their land. I disagree with this huge fee but do believe at the moment we are to some degree self governed on the whole regards to our conduct. I hope in future we will have to freedom we do now but I honestly can't see it. The more people take risks and chances over private land the more restricted the air will become.
Found this handy map showing the boundaries of National Trust owned land
Follow the history of our places with Land Map
Follow the history of our places with Land Map
For as much as I agree that you need to be careful to fly in a legal and safe way - that is to say, don't fly over groups of people, over built up areas etc. the national trust doesn't own the airspace over their properties so they cannot prohibit you from flying there.
They do own their land, so they can prohibit you from taking off and landing on it.
Done sensibly, with due regard for the safety of people and property on the ground, as well as the common courtesy not to cause a nuisance or disturbance, I can think of plenty of scenarios in which you can legally fly around and film national trust properties regardless of what their opinion might be about that.
They do own their land, so they can prohibit you from taking off and landing on it.
Done sensibly, with due regard for the safety of people and property on the ground, as well as the common courtesy not to cause a nuisance or disturbance, I can think of plenty of scenarios in which you can legally fly around and film national trust properties regardless of what their opinion might be about that.
Just to bump an old(ish) thread. I think it depends on which NT site you want to fly. For example, i live in the lake district, and whilst i've been contemplating buying (and subsequently purchasing) a mavic pro, i've been doing a lot of research on where i can fly as i want to remain responsible and within the law, and from what i can tell, as long as you stick to the drone code, it is fine to fly in the lake district. (I am prepared to be corrected though).
Flying Drones
Flying Drones
Take off and land off NT land, they do not control the airspace, despite what bylaws they quote... Follow the Drone code. I would personally stay above 300ft and out of the way of people, pick times when it quiet and be respectful.
NT want to make money, and they allow gliders on some land, at the moment drones are in for it many because of idiots....NT have even gone after people posting Photos of their lovey castles on 'flicker, youtube etc..' without success mind you...but it show their intent.
The Mavik is quiet quad and once at 50ft+ I doubt anyone could hear it anyway. At 300ft i doubt they will even see it...
NT want to make money, and they allow gliders on some land, at the moment drones are in for it many because of idiots....NT have even gone after people posting Photos of their lovey castles on 'flicker, youtube etc..' without success mind you...but it show their intent.
The Mavik is quiet quad and once at 50ft+ I doubt anyone could hear it anyway. At 300ft i doubt they will even see it...
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"the national trust doesn't own the airspace over their properties so they cannot prohibit you from flying there..." Errr... Yes... They do! And yes, they can / do. Anyone flying over their property is effectively trespassing. Check the property byelaws as well as basic law of the land... Also, don't expect to sell footage recorded of or over their properties either... All copyright / images / film etc vests with them not the photographer... So expect to get sued for copyright infringement if you get caught profiting from images of their properties without formal permission... (P.S. I have been both a professional photographer and managed a part NT owned estate in the home counties in the past) sorry to pee on the party, but people need to know this...
Thank you, very interesting points....
Clause 18 Kites and Model Aircraft
(1) No person shall fly a kite or model glider from the access land in such a manner as to give reasonable cause for annoyance to any other person or in such a manner as is likely to startle or disturb stock on the land.
(2) No person shall release any power-driven model aircraft for flight or control the flight of such an aircraft on or over the access land unless he is authorised to do so by the Authority.
(3) For the purpose of this byelaw “model aircraft” means an aircraft which either weighs not more than 5 kilograms without its fuel or is for the time being exempted (as a model aircraft) from provisions of the Air Navigation Order and “power driven” means driven by the combustion of petrol vapour or other combustible vapour or other combustible substances or by one or more electric motors.
You are allowed to fly gliders but that's about it, this refers to National parks and Forestry commission land, there is the proviso "Authorised to do so by the authority".
A comment on the NT FAQ in airprox report 2016100
"although the National Trust may have authority to ban drones being flown ‘from’ their land, it was unclear to the Board what authority they had to ban drones flying ‘over’ their land at a reasonable height (whilst being operated from a public road or track for example) any more than a private individual who might wish to ‘ban’ drones from flying over their own private land."
Only a few months back a fine was issues for £800 + £3500 court fees for flying over a restricted area or signifiant importance.
I wonder how the courts would see a NT infringement, especially if someone followed the CAA guidelines, would it even go to court?
It's a very grey area...
I think the byelaw was intended to prevent hawkers. The CAA control airspace not NT.
NT bylaw:
No mention of Quadcopter only selling photos for reward. mind you the bylaws are from 1965
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/documents/the-national-trust-byelaws-1965.pdf
What is ‘land’ in law?
The statutory definition of land under section 205(1)(ix) of the Law of Property Act 1925 includes “land of any tenure, and mines and minerals … buildings or parts of buildings and other corporeal hereditaments; also … incorporeal hereditaments and an easement right privilege or benefit in over or derived from land”.
In plain English, ‘land’ means physical property (such as the soil and buildings which stand on it), as well as property which is intangible. This includes easements, ie. rights of way over someone else’s land as well as airspace above the land.
Airspace
You also own, and have rights in the airspace above your property; however, these rights are limited. There are two types of airspace – the lower and upper stratums.
The lower stratum
This is the airspace immediately above/around the land. Interference with this air space would affect the landowner’s reasonable enjoyment of the land and the structures upon it. You can prevent people from interfering with or intruding on this airspace. For instance, projecting eaves or advertising signs, and tower cranes being used for construction work on neighbouring land but which swing across your airspace.
The higher stratum
This is the airspace which exists above the height which is reasonably acceptable and necessary for the ordinary use and enjoyment of the land by its owner – around 500 to 1000 feet above roof space level (Section 76 Civil Aviation Act 1982).
Landowners have no greater rights to this airspace than any other member of the public.
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When did NT get to own the airspace above their land ? .. this is news !! .. do we all own the space above our land ?? ... to what height ??
Wayleebird
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OMG I think the CAA and all the rules are getting stupid as long as your over 100 ft and not being a nuisance and fly sensibly you should be fine this is how I fly and have had no problems.
P.S most of the rules are unenforceable
P.S most of the rules are unenforceable
Derlisz
Well-Known Member
Londroner
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I live near a NT property, Runnymede, which is a large open space of grassland with no large buildings or gardens on it. For most of the year few people are seen using it. It would be an ideal flying space but, I assume, not under current NT bylaws. I don't know how they would stop any drone flights as there are no officials on the site.
Derlisz
Well-Known Member
Sadly another case of the few idiots spoiling it for everyone else!
Looking at the NT web page regarding flying drones they seem to have jumped on the drone hating bandwagon starting with the sentence 'All aerial activity above our sites is prohibited unless specific permission is granted, according to an existing byelaw.' and going on to quote edited regulations and statistics in a negative manner.
It feels as though the web page has been posted to appease the drone haters!
English Heritage on the other hand have posted 'Drone Filming Guidelines' and start with the following:
'There is increasing interest in the use of drones to film or photograph our historic locations. While drones offer a fantastic new perspective to enjoy and explore our historic buildings, we need to carefully balance these possibilities with the need to care for and conserve our sites, and maintain the safety of our visitors.'
Going by the tone of EH's guidelines I duly respect their guidelines and do not fly 'over' their sites but fly 'around' (normaly early morning or late evening) the site observing CAA regulations.
As regards to NT I would not fly 'over' any 'pay to visit' sites .But there is alot of land owned by NT where I live that is openly accessible to the public (eg on top of the 'White Cliffs of Dover') that would be hard to enforce their 'prohibition'. I would endeavour to not take off from 'their property' and fly within CAA guidelines.
Looking at the NT web page regarding flying drones they seem to have jumped on the drone hating bandwagon starting with the sentence 'All aerial activity above our sites is prohibited unless specific permission is granted, according to an existing byelaw.' and going on to quote edited regulations and statistics in a negative manner.
It feels as though the web page has been posted to appease the drone haters!
English Heritage on the other hand have posted 'Drone Filming Guidelines' and start with the following:
'There is increasing interest in the use of drones to film or photograph our historic locations. While drones offer a fantastic new perspective to enjoy and explore our historic buildings, we need to carefully balance these possibilities with the need to care for and conserve our sites, and maintain the safety of our visitors.'
Going by the tone of EH's guidelines I duly respect their guidelines and do not fly 'over' their sites but fly 'around' (normaly early morning or late evening) the site observing CAA regulations.
As regards to NT I would not fly 'over' any 'pay to visit' sites .But there is alot of land owned by NT where I live that is openly accessible to the public (eg on top of the 'White Cliffs of Dover') that would be hard to enforce their 'prohibition'. I would endeavour to not take off from 'their property' and fly within CAA guidelines.
SteveM
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I flew by Canons Ashby (NT) when I first got a drone and didn't know about NT rules. Warden came over and asked us to stop due to people filming lead roofs and then people stealing the lead. We stopped flying and moved on. Was all very civil. (Did not take off or land on NT land - just flew over)
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