Need Forum help please...

[Bussty]

Hello there if you refer to this post https://forum.dji.com/forum.php? ... 1&extra=#pid3677423 over on the DJI Forum, DJI or their AI BOT are suggesting that there is something wrong with the autofocus on my Mavic 4 Pro and I should maybe send it back. It's 100% fine it's focusing in FreePano Mode that is the problem.
I just need to check if this is a universal issue or just me. Could I ask a couple of you to please test the following...

• Select the 6x Camera in Photo Mode
• Using AF mode place the middle target on something in the foreground so it focuses on that and the background goes out of focus (a roof is a great example)
• Now tap the roof to make sure AF is locked on it (Background should still be out of focus)
• Now tap MF (Manual Focus) this should change nothing effectively taking the camera out of AF mode and locking the focus on the roof
• Now without moving the gimbal or drone select FreePano mode...
• In doing that does the the focus jump to the background even though the centre target isn't on it?

Would be great if a couple of you could confirm this. If it is the case it's an issue as what if you wanted a FreePano of something in the Foreground/Middle Ground? It looks like DJI have set the 6x up to jump to Infinity.

Also I assume nobody is able to control focus at all in FreePano mode? Especially 6x camera mode.

Thanks in advance for your help would be great if we can get the FreePano mode to be more user friendly.

Cheers

 

[GadgetGuy]

Sounds like it is functioning as intended. No need to waste time sending it in. There is no user control over the focus point in any of the automated modes. It is likely set to infinity because that will work for 99% of most users, providing the greatest depth of field. If you want a different functionality that gives you control over the focus, you'll need to shoot your Free Pano manually, and stitch it yourself. Not that difficult. Just use a 1/3 overlap on each adjoining image. The rule of thirds image overlay option works well for this purpose.

 

[Bussty]

Sounds like it is functioning as intended. No need to waste time sending it in. There is no user control over the focus point in any of the automated modes. It is likely set to infinity because that will work for 99% of most users, providing the greatest depth of field. If you want a different functionality that gives you control over the focus, you'll need to shoot your Free Pano manually, and stitch it yourself. Not that difficult. Just use a 1/3 overlap on each adjoining image. The rule of thirds image overlay option works well for this purpose.

This is what I'm thinking but why is it like that? Especially with the 6x camera you could so much more easily capture a high quality mosaic of a middle or foreground subject if you could focus then let it take it's 20 or so images automatically. I bet the infinity thing came about as this was only initially being used on wide angle cameras with huge depth of field but the 6x is a different beast. I have pestered DJI before about improvements and happy to try again but if it were available would you use the ability to set a manual focus point on a FreePano or regular panorama? We just need to start posting unsharp middle distance and foreground out of focus panos taken with the 6x and DJI should see how unusable it is.

Is it also your understanding that we can set exposure (auto or manual) on the FreePanos and Normal Panos? If we can do that why not focus too? I am really up for this fight as that 6x camera straight out of the box can potentially take a really bad looking pano and DJI shouldn't like to see that I'm guessing.

They are really dumbing down a pro drone by doing this.

 

[GadgetGuy]

This is what I'm thinking but why is it like that? Especially with the 6x camera you could so much more easily capture a high quality mosaic of a middle or foreground subject if you could focus then let it take it's 20 or so images automatically. I bet the infinity thing came about as this was only initially being used on wide angle cameras with huge depth of field but the 6x is a different beast. I have pestered DJI before about improvements and happy to try again but if it were available would you use the ability to set a manual focus point on a FreePano or regular panorama? We just need to start posting unsharp middle distance and foreground out of focus panos taken with the 6x and DJI should see how unusable it is.

Is it also your understanding that we can set exposure (auto or manual) on the FreePanos and Normal Panos? If we can do that why not focus too? I am really up for this fight as that 6x camera straight out of the box can potentially take a really bad looking pano and DJI shouldn't like to see that I'm guessing.

It is a compromise.

The Free Pano options and the spherical pano options are intended for those who don't want to, or can't stitch the images manually, and don't want to shoot them manually, and are more interested in the result than in controlling the process. DJI's in camera stitching on Spherical Panos has vastly improved over time, where the result is now a Hi Res image (45MP-75MP) with a cloned in ceiling, instead of the low resolution 12 MP stitch from the Mavic 2. However, all the panos are still fully automated, with no user control over the exposure or focus point of the images being taken, nor even the order.

So, while I haven’t tested it, my understanding is we have no control over the exposure nor the focal point. Even if your exposure is set to -1/3 EV for photos, I don't believe Free Panos will be shot at anything other than 0 EV. Would love to discover otherwise, though! On the Mavic 2, it appeared that the exposure was set by the first image, rather than each individual image. Now, I believe it is set to auto-exposure for each of the images, which is a vast improvement, with exposure adjustments made during the in camera stitch for the best result.

I believe each of the images in a Free Pano and Normal Panos is set to auto-exposure.

I don't believe there is a Spherical Pano option for the 6x camera. Even the 2.5x Spherical Pano option cannot be stitched in camera.

I would love to see a Spherical Pano option on the 6x camera, even without an in camera stitch, but I believe DJI has decided that 10 minutes of hover required just for JPG's is too risky, and it is probably 15 minutes if DNG is chosen. The number of images alone for a 6x stitch is close to 500, based off the roughly 140 images for the 2.5x spherical pano.

The Creator Combo drone has the larger faster SSD that could support such a capability, but there is not enough demand for DJI to allocate scarce development resources into such a feature.

Litchi gives much more control over panos of all sorts, but without an SDK for the Mavic 4 Pro, we are limited to DJI's offerings.

 

[Bussty]

I think I might have just made you night/day check out this...

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Screen recording from yesterday when I was playing around trying to work out what makes the drone not be able to take a FreePano (now know that is due to having in-drone stitching on). But the video clearly shows changing the exposure in manual mode while in Freepano mode and it holding on that setting during the FreePano execution. If DJI can allow that why can't they do it for focus too? Pretty sure I took a 360 with the 28mm camera the other day and it let me change the exposure on that one too while in 360 Mode but not 100% on that. It definitely let me set the exposure in photo mode and when I changed to Pano Mode it stuck. I'll double check tomorrow.

To my way of thinking this is a $6000 NZD Pro drone it should do pro things.

You are right 6x can't do 360 and pitch is limited to 60 degrees to negative 60 on Freepano.

My next move is to go find some interesting middle and foreground subjects using 6x Camera and Freepano and show how the focus is only focusing on the background and then present to DJI. My gut feeling is the image is sharp from about 100m to infinity so that infers there could be a lot of subjects that this could look really bad on if trying to do creative separation on and have big files. Gemini thinks the closest point in focus is even further like 315m! That's crazy far, why wouldn't you allow focusing if taking a subject closer than 315m is not going to be sharp?

 

[GadgetGuy]

I think I might have just made you night/day check out this...

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Accept third party cookies

Screen recording from yesterday when I was playing around trying to work out what makes the drone not be able to take a FreePano (now know that is due to having in-drone stitching on). But the video clearly shows changing the exposure in manual mode while in Freepano mode and it holding on that setting during the FreePano execution. If DJI can allow that why can't they do it for focus too? Pretty sure I took a 360 with the 28mm camera the other day and it let me change the exposure on that one too while in 360 Mode but not 100% on that. It definitely let me set the exposure in photo mode and when I changed to Pano Mode it stuck. I'll double check tomorrow.

To my way of thinking this is a $6000 NZD Pro drone it should do pro things.

You are right 6x can't do 360 and pitch is limited to 60 degrees to negative 60 on Freepano.

My next move is to go find some interesting middle and foreground subjects using 6x Camera and Freepano and show how the focus is only focusing on the background and then present to DJI. My gut feeling is the image is sharp from about 100m to infinity so that infers there could be a lot of subjects that this could look really bad on if trying to do creative separation on and have big files. Gemini thinks the closest point in focus is even further like 315m! That's crazy far, why wouldn't you allow focusing if taking a subject closer than 315m is not going to be sharp?

View attachment 183919

So you can use Pro mode and set a fixed exposure on a Free Pano. Good!
Kind of makes sense, because unlike a 360° pano, the Free Pano is likely all in the same direction, and you wouldn't want the exposure to vary on individual components of the stitch.

For Free Pano focus, It is also unlikely that the 6x Free Pano is using the hyperfocal distance or infinity, or even the background given the shallow depth of field, and your calculations of the hyperfocal distance. It probably is the closest object. Your best guess of Free Pano being sharp from 100m to infinity is actually pretty good for creative separation because you usually have to back off from the large foreground subject by at least 330 feet to get it fully in the full frame at 168mm, to then show the separation from middle ground and background subjects behind it.

Still, I understand you wanting to pick the point of focus for the Free Pano. Have you contacted DJI by phone to escalate the question to the relevant team?

Keep at it!

Have you discovered what the limits of the Free Pano are using 6x in terms of how many degrees horizontally you can cover , if you turn off saving the images? Will it cover 45°? 90°? 180°? It could have some utility to stitch together overlapping 90° Free Panos to obtain an even wider field of view than enabled.

What is the maximum field of view on the 6x supported by keeping the original JPED images and generating an n camera stitch?

What are you using to stitch your images, or are you only interested in the in camera stitch?

 

[Bussty]

So you can use Pro mode and set a fixed exposure on a Free Pano. Good!
Kind of makes sense, because unlike a 360° pano, the Free Pano is likely all in the same direction, and you wouldn't want the exposure to vary on individual components of the stitch.

For Free Pano focus, It is also unlikely that the 6x Free Pano is using the hyperfocal distance or infinity, or even the background given the shallow depth of field, and your calculations of the hyperfocal distance. It probably is the closest object. Your best guess of Free Pano being sharp from 100m to infinity is actually pretty good for creative separation because you usually have to back off from the large foreground subject by at least 330 feet to get it fully in the full frame at 168mm, to then show the separation from middle ground and background subjects behind it.

Still, I understand you wanting to pick the point of focus for the Free Pano. Have you contacted DJI by phone to escalate the question to the relevant team?

Keep at it!

Have you discovered what the limits of the Free Pano are using 6x in terms of how many degrees horizontally you can cover , if you turn off saving the images? Will it cover 45°? 90°? 180°? It could have some utility to stitch together overlapping 90° Free Panos to obtain an even wider field of view than enabled.

What is the maximum field of view on the 6x supported by keeping the original JPED images and generating an n camera stitch?

What are you using to stitch your images, or are you only interested in the in camera stitch?

Hi there. So I was going to take some FreePanos with the 6x Camera to basically show it failing on capturing things that aren't 100m away. There has to be many subjects that fall into this category when you want to use the benefit of the 6x mosaic giving a super high quality image. I'll get those done then post on DJI's forum I guess then phone. Do you have the number?

So when stitching is off, the horizontal view seems almost endless. I went well past 180 degrees and it just kept on saying "Fine" Interestingly it seems if you have stitching on and it says "can't do" the warning will vanish infront of your eyes and you can proceed by turning off stitching. I thought it would hold the warning but it doesn't. Which suggests if stitching is off "any" horizontal distance is OK and the warning will never show which suits me fine (DJI please do not change!). Makes such a difference knowing about that impact as you have to turn it off every flight and only when drone is in the air so I was getting so many mixed results as sometimes I had it on sometimes I had it off and wasn't aware of the connection until today.

So keeping the jpeg stitch on is really a mixed bag and I could find no rhyme nor reason what the parameters were that made it not work, there are videos showing this here (6th post in thread) https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod...ra=page=1&filter=typeid&typeid=948&typeid=948

I used to use PTGUI exclusively but it gets upset with blue sky and no features. Panorama Studio Pro though has a neat feature that lets you stitch based on meta data when it can't find details. Works a treat. The later ones here were stitched with Panorama Studio Pro 360 Panoramas of New Zealand Landscapes by Andrew Busst these all taken on Mini and Mini 3 Pro. I never use in drone stitch just can't 100% rely on it and hard to edit for those tough cases when you can in Panorama Studio Pro and PTGUI.

Thanks for the support the way I see it when you pay $6K for a drone and you stick a Tele camera on it it shouldn't just focus on distant subjects.

Cheers