Where can I take off and land?

[Aron48]

Hi

My first post and one of the main reasons that I finally registered here because I couldn't find answer to my question

I don't have a drone yet but I am preparing myself mentally and "legally" My question is how to recognize places that you can take off and/or land? Please note that I'm not asking what you can fly over - just where can I take off? Also that I am aware of general no-fly zones

For the sake of this thread - please treat me as a tourist in UK mainly because I don't live here long enough to easily recognize some - more or less - legal names easily. Names/places like Commons or Council Parks which everyone knows do not connect in my head with the ways that you can recognize them Green piece of land is either a meddow or a park for me

I've read that you can TOAL from some side roads if can you park without any traffic blocking as roads are public. Can you then take off from the end of quiet cul-de-sac on your estate with your Mini 2? (again - in legal and general way - not talking about neighbours and their concerns)
My city's Borough Council banned take-offs from their land without their permission - should there be somewhere a map or list of places that is owned by them? Or should I stick to the rule saying that I should seek signs and if there is no sign banning drones - I'm good to go?
If I've got a meddow nearby which is called Commons here and in fact it is registered on some maps as Registered Common Land - does it mean that I can fly from there or not?

Generally - are there any maps or general guidelines that could tell me what is allowed and not? Or even more - what is concidered Public Land in UK?

Thanks

 

[cgmaxed]

That's a complicated question. Or actually the answer is.

I'll take off and land on public sidewalks, private property (if ok'd by the owner), my own property, public areas with no signs that say you can't do so, Beaches or community public lands or parks that have no signs saying I can't, empty parking lots, unregulated grassy or wooded areas (places THAT ARE NOT nature preserves, sanctuaries or national or state parks). If I'm told I can't fly or land from somewhere (doesn't matter who), I just leave and find another unoccupied space. I'll also take off and land from areas that just aren't marked as private property. Unmarked fields and parks are good spots. As I said it's complicated. I expect, other's in the forum will help you more.

 

[slup]

This can might give you some general guidance ---> No Fly Drones but I suspect that some local regulations can come on top of this (thank God that we don't suffer from that in Sweden).

 

[zocalo]

Simple question, complex answer, and in truth there isn't really a simple "yes/no" for most of the place where you might want to operate from. IANAL, but as I understand the law once you have legally gotten airborne you can pretty much fly where you please as long as you stay within the CAA's rules and don't breach any NFZs as far as *criminal* law is concerned. That doesn't mean that someone can't bring a case under *civil* law though, most likely using invasion of privacy or trespass as the basis for the case, so you'll still need to use your best judgement based on where you are, who owns the land, how many people are around, etc. Especially so if your flight plan includes an overflight or flyby of a popular spot - e.g. to attempt a crack of dawn flyby of some landmark, which is supposedly perfectly legal under criminal law as long as you take off from public land and are able to comply with distance limits.

Sites like No Fly Drones and apps that provide a similar function are a good starting point, and are definitely worth getting into the habit of checking before every flight, but I generally operate on the following basis, and also rely on the fact I tend to fly in highly rural areas and/or around sunrise/sunset when there's less chance of anyone else being around to complain. If anyone does complain though, especially if they are in a position of authority or a landowner, then it's generally best to be polite, non-confrontational, and if they don't relent once you explain what you are doing,
pack up, and move on. That said, and despite the bad press, drones are still pretty rare and most of the people I've interacted with while flying have been far more curious about the drone and what they can do; it's a good chance to dispell some of the FUD around drones, and if they are locals even get a few tips on other locations to fly - so it definitely pays to be friendly.

Public highways, footpaths, and bridleways are *generally* fair game as take off points, *provided* that you can maintain a safe working distance from people, structures, and vehicles; e.g. a country lane is a much better choice than a busy A-road. The main exceptions are where a footpath or bridleway is within land owned by the National Trust, English Heritage, etc., who currently have blanket bans on drones on *all* their land, including vast tracts of open countryside where you'd generally expect there not to be an issue.

Council owned land (parks, etc.) are hit and miss; you need to check with the specific council and there is no real standard there - some allow it as long as you follow the CAA's rules, others don't. Private land, which includes most farmland, you are supposed to have the permission of the landowner, but in practice unless there is specific anti-drone signage and it's rural then you are unlikely to have any problems as long as you are sensible and don't disturb any animals, especially if they allow open access to the public.

Sites of Special Scientific Interest (SSSIs) are generally out of bounds, and although you can ask for permission to fly it's very unlikely you'll get it, even if the reason for the SSSI is something geological where you are going to do more damage just by being there then your drone will ever do. SSSIs also include wildlife, which is perfectly understandable.

National Parks and AONBs that doesn't obviously fall into one of the above categories (i.e. are clearly not pasture or owned by someone like NT/EH) are usually fine, but again you need to use your judgement if there are people, animals, or structures around - you are *always* responsible for the safety of your flight if anything goes wrong.

One area you can absolutely operate from is the area between the high and low tide lines. This is legally the property of The Crown, hence they're often referred to as "Crown Lands", and the public essentially has blanket permission to use them as they wish as long as no laws are broken. For drone operations, that basically means keeping your distances, etc., and remember to be mindful of the tides as well!

All that might seem very limiting, but in practice the combination of Crown Lands, quiet public rights of way, unused uplands, private landowners that allow public access to their lands, and - as long as you are sensible - the ability of modern drones to unobtrusively operate once airborne opens up quite a significant area of very scenic areas to operate from and over. If you're in the middle of a large urban area you might need to travel a bit, but once you get away from the cities and their suburbs, it's not at all difficult to find somewhere to fly - just stay legal, don't cause a nuisance, and above all else, have fun!

 

[Aron48]

Thanks for the long answer But what is public land in UK? Could you give me some examples like you would to a 5-year-old

As for public footpaths and bridleways - I believe they are established on a private land by the land owner for the purpose of getting from one end to another. Not to stop on his land and have a picnic and do some flying you know what I mean I believe that as long as you are using them for the purpose that they were created - you are OK. If for some other things - you are good until the landowner visits you

Council owned parks - my council banned it - is there a way to find out where are those parks? Some official registry? Or just "follow the sign"?

 

[zocalo]

Public land is, essentially, anywhere the public has a right to go without having to get any form of permission. It is generally owned by The Crown, central government (or their agencies), or local government (or their agencies), but they may - as your local council has done - also set their own additional restrictions. If there's a central registry of this, I've not found it, but there are some community efforts to create maps that outline where these zones are, with varying degrees of detail - there's a very good one for National Trust type organization properties, for instance.

Public footpaths and bridleways across private land are a complex matter. They have repeatedly been challenged in the courts, and the courts have - almost without exception - sided with the public interest when they are clearly still in use, slightly less so if they are effectively unused. Maybe it's different further south (there does seem to be a north-south gradient on this), but where I am in the North West it's generally accepted that such paths are there for your enjoyment as long as you obey the Countryside Code and follow any specific local signage, and that includes most leisure activities. The local uplands are also almost all covered under Right to Roam, as is much of the open land in Scotland, which is even more liberal on public access rights, which also enable leisure activities.

Town/Village commons (usually referred to as "Town Greens" or just "Commons", rather than "Parks") are another case. They are generally land grants to the public to use as they see fit, often dating back several hundred years and made in perpetuity; historically this was to graze livestock (the phrase "tragedy of the commons" comes from the overgrazing that often resulted) - and that still holds today. If a council is trying to enforce overly restrictive rules on a commons (including banning drones), then they would probably not prevail in court, but someone has to bring a case and I'm not aware of that happening anywhere to date. (FWIW, my local council expressly states that our commons is place where you *can* fly as long as you follow the Drone Code, and I've met several people doing just that, mostly members of the local model aircraft club).

Ideally, you should try and seek permission (good luck with that in practice though!) first, but as long as you are sensible while flying you're unlikely to have any problems if you don't. As a rule of thumb, if you can freely access the land, there are no signs prohibiting drones, it's not owned by the National Trust, etc., you're not going to disturb other people or animals, and - ideally - it's not farmland (or at least unoccupied upland pasture) then you should be good to go. Subject to the rules of the Drone Code, naturally!

 

[Aron48]

Thanks @zocalo - that clears some bits a little This part about Commons sounds promising - this means that I have a 2 minute walk from a place that I can practise on/from Now just to get a drone

 

[eaglesurfing]

Welcome to the forum and enjoy.

You will find a lot info here.

 

[Laborous]

Welcome to the forum from the beautiful woods of Maine!

 

[Fizzbang]

Thanks for the long answer But what is public land in UK? Could you give me some examples like you would to a 5-year-old

As for public footpaths and bridleways - I believe they are established on a private land by the land owner for the purpose of getting from one end to another. Not to stop on his land and have a picnic and do some flying you know what I mean I believe that as long as you are using them for the purpose that they were created - you are OK. If for some other things - you are good until the landowner visits you

Council owned parks - my council banned it - is there a way to find out where are those parks? Some official registry? Or just "follow the sign"?

If you are going to get legal then.
No one owns land in England, you can only buy freehold. Freehold just means that you can do as you wish with the land within other constraints such as planning laws but you never actually own the land.
The land is owned by the Crown and if you hold the freehold then in the event of your death without someone to inherit you loose the freehold and the estate reverts back to the Crown.

On the ask permission point; I never do, because the answer is binary.
If the answer is no then that is not what I want to hear.
If the answer is yes then it implies some sharing of risk which is not the intention of the question.
If you want to know what the Crown thinks about drones checkout this site . Mind you, if you are in the midlands, then you have got a long way to go to the nearest high tide mark.

I generally rely on the drone assist uk on my iPad mini and the CAA regulations. Check it out.

 

[Squidinc]

Plenty of opportunities along the east coast of Australia ?

 

[123taff]

If you are going to get legal then.
No one owns land in England, you can only buy freehold. Freehold just means that you can do as you wish with the land within other constraints such as planning laws but you never actually own the land.
The land is owned by the Crown and if you hold the freehold then in the event of your death without someone to inherit you loose the freehold and the estate reverts back to the Crown.

On the ask permission point; I never do, because the answer is binary.
If the answer is no then that is not what I want to hear.
If the answer is yes then it implies some sharing of risk which is not the intention of the question.
If you want to know what the Crown thinks about drones checkout this site . Mind you, if you are in the midlands, then you have got a long way to go to the nearest high tide mark.

I generally rely on the drone assist uk on my iPad mini and the CAA regulations. Check it out.

That is not quite technically correct. Under our legal system, the Monarch (currently Queen Elizabeth II), as head of state, owns the superior interest in all land in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. In most cases, this is usually irrelevant but it can become relevant if a freehold property becomes ownerless. If this happens, freehold land may, in some circumstances, fall to the monarch as the owner of the superior interest. This process is called 'escheat'. This effectively means that persons/organisation DO own their land and the freehold/leasehold is just the terms of sale where freehold has absolute rights to the ownership and full responsibility whereas leasehold on a fixed term gives partial ownership subject the the owner of the land retaining the ownership rights and being ultimately responsible for the land. FAQs | FAQs.

 

[mavic53]

Mini 3 pro anywhere quote 249

 

[Cymru]

Hi

My first post and one of the main reasons that I finally registered here because I couldn't find answer to my question

I don't have a drone yet but I am preparing myself mentally and "legally" My question is how to recognize places that you can take off and/or land? Please note that I'm not asking what you can fly over - just where can I take off? Also that I am aware of general no-fly zones

Crown estate foreshore is permissive so any of that generally (so coastal, river banks). Other than that its a bit murky. In theory you'd need a landowner permission but on the other hand all we're talking about here at worst is potential trespass so they can ask you to leave. Nothing more.

As a general rule, most people will use public access land provided there's nothing saying you cant and just dont be an idiot - do it away from people and don't cause an annoyance.

FWIW Drone Scene (Where To Fly Your Drone in the UK) has a map with all the no fly zones but also layers for crown estate foreshore etc to see where you can fly. Its worth a look.