A2 CofC Changes

[eckydrone200]

I was about to post on this topic- I signed up to do the A2CofC a while back with a well known provider and saw their post about the updated regulations on their site last week...
And I was also confused- as there's a form to fill in with a note for each flight, as well as uploading logs. Since getting my MA2 in the summer, my flight total is just on the 8 hours, but to fill in the form with 60 odd flight log details seems onerous...?
The other observation I've made is a lot of people are posting in a UK MA2 FB group saying they've passed (although generally with different course providers) and make no mention of this... and this is from people who have posted pictures and videos that are probably not within the current rules (such as over the town they live in) - presumably they didn't fail so did they perhaps remove the logs from those flights? Or is it that the course-provider I'm with are just a lot more rigorous in their checks?

Is it not the case that they just need a screenshot of your flights which just show flight time, distance, max altitude and date? The only way they could see where they have been flying is if you have to submit individual maps though on the form they do ask for postcodes or grid references. I assume if you put postcodes in they could cover a general area and not be an exact indication of where you were flying. Not sure if the CAA actually look at these practical flight records or if the training provider look at them. It would be interesting to know as if that is the case it is a bit too much like big brother watching you. I understand the need for safety but there are probably a lot of users who may fly within 50m of empty buildings or early in the morning etc just to get a photo and surely some distinction has to be applied between these kind of flights and flying over numerous buildings or near busy urban areas. It makes me wonder if it is worth having a drone.

 

[stephentaber]

Hi,

I am in a situation that echoes this thread. I signed up with a training provider back in October for A2COFC qualification. The online theory learning was fine, but the practical requirements were 'comprehensive'. 8 hours flight time, logging of flight/time/location. The requirement of uploading DJI flight logs. Between October and now those requirements essentially put me off/delayed me becoming qualified due to the weather and Covid. Another provider is offering a A2COFC training with 'no practical' The only requirement is a declaration, no logs, no DJI flight information, no 8 hours flight time.

It seems to be at the discretion of the training provider what proof they require in terms of practical flight competency.

It's a strange situation, it makes sense for me to switch provider and avoid the entire practical requirement of my first provider.

 

[Cymru]

I think its discretion of the provider - theres no set legal requirement (unlike PfCO etc).
Self-certification of flight experience is fine for most providers.

Some seem to be applying old PfCO level of scrutiny to an A2CoC which isnt really needed.

 

[mattgod69]

I recently (Nov) passed the A2 CofC exam. Since then, I have logged nearly 7 hours flying time (training and trying different things). I have owned my Phantom 4 drone for around 4 years and I have in the middle of 2020 purchased a Mavic Mini. I submitted my declaration and detailed logs and after nearly a week they came back and said that I needed to do more flying time as I had not done a minimum eight hours required for the qualification. I thought I had not sent off the total flying time screenshots, because I thought that the whole point of the self declaration that you needed to do enough time to ensure that you felt you were competent. Their guidance does say two hours if you have previous experience with drones but they appear to have ignored this. I am a little frustrated as I should really be getting the certificate as I have done more than enough flying time. It will be interesting to see if anybody else has had similar experiences.

 

[mattgod69]

Some seem to be applying old PfCO level of scrutiny to an A2CoC which isnt really needed.

Do you think they are or should be allowed to do this?

 

[mattgod69]

Hi,

I am in a situation that echoes this thread. I signed up with a training provider back in October for A2COFC qualification. The online theory learning was fine, but the practical requirements were 'comprehensive'. 8 hours flight time, logging of flight/time/location. The requirement of uploading DJI flight logs. Between October and now those requirements essentially put me off/delayed me becoming qualified due to the weather and Covid. Another provider is offering a A2COFC training with 'no practical' The only requirement is a declaration, no logs, no DJI flight information, no 8 hours flight time.

It seems to be at the discretion of the training provider what proof they require in terms of practical flight competency.

It's a strange situation, it makes sense for me to switch provider and avoid the entire practical requirement of my first provider.

Hi Stephen... Was thinking of doing the same (i.e. switching provider). I noticed that there were several others offering the course for not only much less money than what I paid(!) which is annoying in itself but also they were saying that there was no requirement to carry out any practical training although presumably you still need to do self declaration?

 

[old man mavic]

i believe that the provider you are using ,is misinterpreting the requirements for the A2 C of C
apart from anything else ,with the current covid restrictions in place ,then going out to fly ,or attend a practical test day at a RAE location is a no go
this is why the self declaration form for the A2 C of C was produced ,you sign it and also you have to send a recent photo, and then that information is sent to the CAA and without that being done then you cant do the final exam ,it is also linked to your Flyer ID ,and all that info is on the certificate you get when you pass
these rules may be different if you are taking the GVC course which includes keeping a flight log book ,and having minimum flying hours done to keep current

 

[stephentaber]

Hi Stephen... Was thinking of doing the same (i.e. switching provider). I noticed that there were several others offering the course for not only much less money than what I paid(!) which is annoying in itself but also they were saying that there was no requirement to carry out any practical training although presumably you still need to do self declaration?

Hi Matt,

Your previous post mentions you passed the A2CofC in November, but this reply you mention switching provider?

I booked a course in October, theory side of thing I found easy to absorb, but the practical requirements (flight time, logs, uploading DJI flight files etc... basically stalled me, in the current climate both with covid and the weather, standing in a field for 8 hours was not really an option.

The truth is, the A2CofC is a qualification you could realistically get without ever flying or even touching a UAV, a few multiple choice questions and a self declaration that you are capable of basic shapes and hovering. So in a way I think it is right that some kind of practical competency SHOULD be required... BUT it isn't. And I don't think many people, no matter what they are trying to qualify for would knowingly want to do more work and jump through more hoops for the exact same qualification. I class myself as experienced in terms of flight hours, I have owned multiple UAV's, been through every scenario in terms of weather, bad firmware etc... so I feel morally 'ok' with skipping the practical requirements.

I jumped provider on Thursday, I have studied the theory (again), signed my self declaration & have my exam this afternoon. For me personally it was worth the second fee to avoid the practical requirements from my previous provider.

Not sure there is a right answer. Providers asking for proof are providing a higher level of training with less totally inexperienced pilots slipping through the net. But at the same time if it not a legal or CAA requirement I am not sure people should unknowingly have to partake in the extra hurdles.

Thanks

 

[mattgod69]

i believe that the provider you are using ,is misinterpreting the requirements for the A2 C of C
apart from anything else ,with the current covid restrictions in place ,then going out to fly ,or attend a practical test day at a RAE location is a no go
this is why the self declaration form for the A2 C of C was produced ,you sign it and also you have to send a recent photo, and then that information is sent to the CAA and without that being done then you cant do the final exam ,it is also linked to your Flyer ID ,and all that info is on the certificate you get when you pass
these rules may be different if you are taking the GVC course which includes keeping a flight log book ,and having minimum flying hours done to keep current

Thank you for the message. I think you are right in that they are misinterpreting requirements.

I did sit and pass the exam prior to doing the practical training though? This was actually their recommendation.

Doing the flying time in the past month was actually quite useful following the exam because I did use this time as the chance to try different flying methods and modes of the drones. However, I now feel with the recent time and also the previous time which I have of course course obtained over the last four or so years is more than enough for me to self certify that I am competent to fly the drones.

I have to say I am a bit irritated with the provider I have used.

 

[old man mavic]

if at a future date ,you were challenged ,by a LEO because you had been flying outside of the rules ,or had been reported for dangerous flying then you could be asked to provide proof that you were able to control the drone as prescribed in the self declaration,also it states clearly on the certificate that it can be revoked amended or suspended by the CAA at any time ,

 

[mattgod69]

Hi Matt,

Your previous post mentions you passed the A2CofC in November, but this reply you mention switching provider?

I booked a course in October, theory side of thing I found easy to absorb, but the practical requirements (flight time, logs, uploading DJI flight files etc... basically stalled me, in the current climate both with covid and the weather, standing in a field for 8 hours was not really an option.

The truth is, the A2CofC is a qualification you could realistically get without ever flying or even touching a UAV, a few multiple choice questions and a self declaration that you are capable of basic shapes and hovering. So in a way I think it is right that some kind of practical competency SHOULD be required... BUT it isn't. And I don't think many people, no matter what they are trying to qualify for would knowingly want to do more work and jump through more hoops for the exact same qualification. I class myself as experienced in terms of flight hours, I have owned multiple UAV's, been through every scenario in terms of weather, bad firmware etc... so I feel morally 'ok' with skipping the practical requirements.

I jumped provider on Thursday, I have studied the theory (again), signed my self declaration & have my exam this afternoon. For me personally it was worth the second fee to avoid the practical requirements from my previous provider.

Not sure there is a right answer. Providers asking for proof are providing a higher level of training with less totally inexperienced pilots slipping through the net. But at the same time if it not a legal or CAA requirement I am not sure people should unknowingly have to partake in the extra hurdles.

Thanks

Hi Stephen

I have passed the exam but if they are going to expect me to go out and do another two or so hours flying time then not sure this will be possible and it may be cheaper and easier for me to retake the test with somebody else. This would be a stupid situation I know as I have actually compliant with their requirements in any event.

I am now back at work and it is very busy and we are of course all in lockdown. I am not sure if I should actually even be flying the drone in lockdown, even though I won't be with anyone. I guess I could walk around the field with the controller and class this as exercise! lol

I am, as I'm sure you can appreciate, very frustrated with the provider I'm currently with.

Matt

if at a future date ,you were challenged ,by a LEO because you had been flying outside of the rules ,or had been reported for dangerous flying then you could be asked to provide proof that you were able to control the drone as prescribed in the self declaration,also it states clearly on the certificate that it can be revoked amended or suspended by the CAA at any time ,

Agreed... i am assuming that even if on our own we should not be flying drones during lockdown? what are your thoughs?

 

[old man mavic]

unfortunately actually flying a drone is not considered as a legitimate reason to be outside
i have a football field that is about a half mile from my house ,and i could walk to it as legitimate exercise ,and under the new rules i could even fly my MM as i walked along ,but the problem with that is my health issues prevent me from such a walk so thats out ,i think its going to be a long time before things start to resemble "normal" so in the meantime we will have to bite the bullet ,and be patient

 

[Cymru]

Do you think they are or should be allowed to do this?

Ultimately its their course so they can do what they want.
The regulations stipulate a minimum requirement but not a maximum.

 

[Cymru]

unfortunately actually flying a drone is not considered as a legitimate reason to be outside

You could argue as its for A2CoC which is a recognised certification its for educational reasons.

But its all down to police discretion.
Given the UK police are now fining people for talking a walk carrying a hot drink or throwing snowballs i dont think much of your chances. They're gone power crazed.

 

[mattgod69]

I agree, I think that the training could be argued that it is for work purposes... It actually is in my case, I am looking to use the drone on occasions for my work.

I must admit I had not heard of the police fining people for carrying a hot drink etc... That sounds crazy...

 

[Cymru]

I must admit I had not heard of the police fining people for carrying a hot drink etc... That sounds crazy...

Covid: Fines reviewed after women 'surrounded by police'

Two women were fined £200 after driving five miles to walk around Foremark Reservoir, Derbyshire.

www.bbc.co.uk

We've had them here rounding up kids of sledges for the past 10 days.

Its all down to officer discretion but there seems to be very little about. You can probably get the education argument - show the requirement for flight hours and take the paperwork with you.

 

[eckydrone200]

Are you meant to submit a photo for the A2 CofC? I see it mentioned in a post but my provider never mentioned it.

 

[old man mavic]

Are you meant to submit a photo for the A2 CofC? I see it mentioned in a post but my provider never mentioned it.

sorry it was me ,it was in reference to obtaining the plastic id card to show your A2 C of C ,but you do need to have proof of your identity ,such as a passport or photo id driving licence before the test can commence on the day of the test

 

[eckydrone200]

Thanks for reply OMM. How do you go about getting a plastic ID card? I would have liked one and have tried online to see about getting one made up but to no avail.

 

[old man mavic]

@eckydrone200 go on e bay type in CAA drone regulation ID card for A2 C of C and you will see it